lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 It's taken me a while, but I'm now realise how destructive those ethernet over power adaptors are. I've been stuck using these adaptors for the last couple of years because the house is double brick and it is a right pain to hardwire. But then I thought I probably manage to optical fibre through the cavity much easier, and so I'm been putting together a (test) cheap fibre network to serve up Roon on a Mac Mini in another room to a SoTM Neo Ultra. As expected, first impressions with a test set up are pretty positive for the digital side of system, and I'd decided that I will make the effort to wire it permanently when I get to a chance. All good, decision made. So then I switched over to the vinyl expecting very little or no difference. Oh, I was so wrong. The drop in the noise floor is incredible, soundstage has wider, and is more empty (more mud removed) but also focussed, if that makes sense. The gain is much more prominent - it can only be in the power improvements in the Graham Slee Elevator head amp & Musical Surroundings Nova II), which both have LPS supply. This kInd of makes sense to me, given the gain required from a LOMC cart I thought I had some reasonable power filtration (Holton DC Blocker + Thoroughbred power filter / sequencer), but they were no match for these evil, evil things ...... Yes I'd been told, and read about it , but I never realised how destructive they are to a good sound until now. I'm a late learner ! Anyway, the question that I have for the forum is what is the next cost-effective improvement that is worth a shot ? I'm open to opinions here. What are people's most cheap power improvements ? different power board ? I was thinking of trying one of the lower end Isotek boards, but interested in other options / suggestions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Even thesehttps://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-isoplug/ in parallel on a standard power board help to reduce mains noise and won't choke up the system. I have seen the sniffer results like in this video. I have been able to listen to a radio station through the noise analyser and plug this in and silent. They say it's ok but I wouldn't run a power amp through a sirius or polaris though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bunno77 said: Even thesehttps://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-isoplug/ in parallel on a standard power board help to reduce mains noise and won't choke up the system. Wait, how is this supposed to work in parallel? Is it negative feedback back into the power lines or something? Edited August 2, 2019 by Ittaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bunno77 said: Even thesehttps://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-isoplug/ in parallel on a standard power board help to reduce mains noise and won't choke up the system. I have seen the sniffer results like in this video. I have been able to listen to a radio station through the noise analyser and plug this in and silent. They say it's ok but I wouldn't run a power amp through a sirius or polaris though Yeah, I'd see this recently, and that's why I mentioned Isotek. ... However, it does concern me that Kevin want's to spank me ..... I've never heard of that in audio gear review before, but I suppose there are people into all sorts of things, and that's OK . So would the polaris be good place to start ? vs the relative benefits of jumping straight to the Sirius or something else ? Also I've read reasonable reviews of the iFi AC Purifier or the Akiko things, but that starts to sound a little voodoo-ish, but i can be convinced by voodoo if it works and is cheap-ish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Wait, how is this supposed to work in parallel? I don't know but I played around with the sniffer and it does. There are a few that believe in parallel mains treatment. The Sirius and Polaris are just multiples of the plug. Using them in parallel with no devices plugged in does the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: Yeah, I'd see this recently, and that's why I mentioned Isotek. ... However, it does concern me that Kevin want's to spank me ..... I've never heard of that in audio gear review before, but I suppose there are people into all sorts of things, and that's OK . So would the polaris be good place to start ? vs the relative benefits of jumping straight to the Sirius or something else ? Also I've read reasonable reviews of the iFi AC Purifier or the Akiko things, but that starts to sound a little voodoo-ish, but i can be convinced by voodoo if it works and is cheap-ish Yeah there are heaps of products. Like always best to demo for yourself. Go to a good store and let them swap in and out for you. If they have a sniffer they can show you too. Good stores have a sniffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Bunno77 said: I don't know but I played around with the sniffer and it does. There are a few that believe in parallel mains treatment. The Sirius and Polaris are just multiples of the plug. Using them in parallel with no devices plugged in does the same I added to my original post. Maybe negative feedback back into the power line? Like most power related things, and most things Isotek, the website is particularly vague. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: Yeah, I'd see this recently, and that's why I mentioned Isotek. ... However, it does concern me that Kevin want's to spank me ..... I've never heard of that in audio gear review before, but I suppose there are people into all sorts of things, and that's OK . So would the polaris be good place to start ? vs the relative benefits of jumping straight to the Sirius or something else ? Also I've read reasonable reviews of the iFi AC Purifier or the Akiko things, but that starts to sound a little voodoo-ish, but i can be convinced by voodoo if it works and is cheap-ish I tried the Isotek aquarius in my system connecting each piece of equipment one by one into it and comparing. It didn't make an audible difference to any of them. Your mileage may vary... I have a sniffer and can see the massive difference it makes too. However, it appears all my hardware already filters it out in its own power supplies anyway I suspect based on my listening tests. Edited August 2, 2019 by Ittaku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just now, Ittaku said: I added to my original post. Maybe negative feedback back into the power line? Like most power related things, and most things Isotek, the website is particularly vague. Yeah I don't know sorry. I have heard heaps of gear and I like some and not others. For the price of the plug it can't hurt. I also use a balanced isolation transformer from Peach Audio. It isn't going anywhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Ittaku said: I tried the Isotek aquarius in my system connecting each piece of equipment one by one into it and comparing. It didn't make an audible difference to any of them. Your mileage may vary... I have a sniffer and can see the massive difference it makes too. However, it appears all my hardware already filters it out in its own power supplies anyway I suspect based on my listening tests. Yep bang on. Like Trevor used to say properly designed gear doesn't need it. The Nova and Titan did nothing for my system. Mosaic did though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Bunno77 said: Yep bang on. Like Trevor used to say properly designed gear doesn't need it. The Nova and Titan did nothing for my system. Mosaic did though What's Mosaic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: What's Mosaic? https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/isotek-evo-3-mosaic-genesis-power-conditioner-regenerator.html Proper sine wave regenerator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: It's taken me a while, but I'm now realise how destructive those ethernet over power adaptors are. I've been stuck using these adaptors for the last couple of years because the house is double brick and it is a right pain to hardwire. But then I thought I probably manage to optical fibre through the cavity much easier, and so I'm been putting together a (test) cheap fibre network to serve up Roon on a Mac Mini in another room to a SoTM Neo Ultra. As expected, first impressions with a test set up are pretty positive for the digital side of system, and I'd decided that I will make the effort to wire it permanently when I get to a chance. All good, decision made. So then I switched over to the vinyl expecting very little or no difference. Oh, I was so wrong. The drop in the noise floor is incredible, soundstage has wider, and is more empty (more mud removed) but also focussed, if that makes sense. The gain is much more prominent - it can only be in the power improvements in the Graham Slee Elevator head amp & Musical Surroundings Nova II), which both have LPS supply. This kInd of makes sense to me, given the gain required from a LOMC cart I thought I had some reasonable power filtration (Holton DC Blocker + Thoroughbred power filter / sequencer), but they were no match for these evil, evil things ...... Yes I'd been told, and read about it , but I never realised how destructive they are to a good sound until now. I'm a late learner ! Anyway, the question that I have for the forum is what is the next cost-effective improvement that is worth a shot ? I'm open to opinions here. What are people's most cheap power improvements ? different power board ? I was thinking of trying one of the lower end Isotek boards, but interested in other options / suggestions. Yep, ethernet over power is injecting what amounts to powerline noise by design for every single other piece of equipment you own, and depending on the device they will have more or less sensitivity to the effect of said noise. Sorry I can't recommend anything in particular for cleaning powerline noise as it never helped in my system, but I will say power cables are not the way to fix powerline noise. Edited August 2, 2019 by Ittaku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bunno77 said: Yeah there are heaps of products. Like always best to demo for yourself. Go to a good store and let them swap in and out for you. If they have a sniffer they can show you too. Good stores have a sniffer good advice ..... go and try before I buy, and support a local store. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Ittaku said: Yep, ethernet over power is injecting what amounts to powerline noise by design for every single other piece of equipment you own, and depending on the device they will have more or less sensitivity to the effect of said noise. Sorry I can't recommend anything in particular for cleaning powerline noise as it never helped in my system, but I will say power cables are not the way to fix powerline noise. Yep, that's what I've found. Even if they weren't 'active', the sound improves sequentially as i removed each one .. damn interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: Yep, that's what I've found. Even if they weren't 'active', the sound improves sequentially as i removed each one .. damn interesting. A lot of data is run through HV lines too in the same way. Tesla really was a guru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, Bunno77 said: https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/isotek-evo-3-mosaic-genesis-power-conditioner-regenerator.html Proper sine wave regenerator nice, but well out of my league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, Bunno77 said: Yeah I don't know sorry. I have heard heaps of gear and I like some and not others. For the price of the plug it can't hurt. I also use a balanced isolation transformer from Peach Audio. It isn't going anywhere Just looking them up, it looks like they are a kit ... is that correct ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: nice, but well out of my league Yeah but the plug is ~ $100. The iFi looks worth a try too. They just released a power board too. 30 minutes ago, lumholtzii said: Just looking them up, it looks like they are a kit ... is that correct ? I am not sure about that I bought mine from a fantastic bloke on here. I am sure an email or call will get will let you know if it's for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Bunno77 said: Yeah but the plug is ~ $100. The iFi looks worth a try too. They just released a power board too. I am not sure about that I bought mine from a fantastic bloke on here. I am sure an email or call will get will let you know if it's for you I've just sent them an e-mail, and will await the reply. But if they ~ $1500 they might be out my league, well at the moment. (right in the middle of expensive house projects, and the audio budget has shrunk enormously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunno77 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Yeah understandable. Maybe enjoy powerline free listening? A good domestic sparky should have no worries pulling ethernet through double brick depending on the run and double story.... Heaps on computer audiophile about fibre home networking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, lumholtzii said: It's taken me a while, but I'm now realise how destructive those ethernet over power adaptors are. My Phantom Golds are talking to the Dialog connecting box using the power cord of the Phantom! Not sure how Devialet do it, but there is no noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: My Phantom Golds are talking to the Dialog connecting box using the power cord of the Phantom! Not sure how Devialet do it, but there is no noise. By doing exactly what the OP said he stopped doing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumholtzii Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: By doing exactly what the OP said he stopped doing... Yeah I know, but I've heard various incarnations of Snoops systems over time, and this is quiet & transparent / clean for sure .... so I'm not too sure how they do it either ... proprietary technologies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, lumholtzii said: It's taken me a while, but I'm now realise how destructive those ethernet over power adaptors are. From what you've posted there was a very adverse effect on your vinyl playback. How serious were the effects on your other equipment? * * * At my place we've had security cameras connected using ethernet over power for the last 7 years or so. The ethernet adaptors came with the cameras. There's been no effect on any of the audio equipment as far as we've noticed. At one stage we tried to connect a Foxtel box to the internet using the ethernet over power adaptor Foxtel provided with the box. However it wouldn't work unless the security camera ethernet over power was switched off, so we didn't persist with ethernet over power for that Foxtel box. (We considered running ethernet cable to remote parts of the house but instead we find the wi-fi modem does most of the house and a Netgear wi-fi repeater can service the remainder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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