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Hawk66

50 vs 100 watts - what's the main difference

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34 minutes ago, Hawk66 said:

Thanks everyone for your comments. I have learned a lot and the passion from everyone on the forum is very obvious. After all this I have resolved the problem quite simply by trying something Edward suggested which was to reposition the speakers closer to the wall and apart more . Instantly there was more bass... the actual Audiolab 6000A is a cracking unit and the clarity and volume it produces is huge for the 50  watts. The 1.2m Timberwolves from Edward are simply sensational and super rich in the sound that comes out of them.  All up a great outcome as I don’t need to find a more powerful amp.. thanks again to everyone for their two bobs worth.. Here is a pic of the set up FYI 

3CAEA020-04E2-4ACC-AF8E-40269AA715F3.jpeg

I love that about rear ported speakers, being able to tune them for more or less bass. No doubt speaker positioning can be the cheapest upgrade to a system.

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2 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

I love that about rear ported speakers, being able to tune them for more or less bass. No doubt speaker positioning can be the cheapest upgrade to a system.

A rear port is a great opportunity for wait for it... a suitably dimension cylindrical piece of cardboard

you thought I was going to say toilet roll. But with remaining space behind the speaker arrange a 

for the rear port to be extended say 100- 200mm - if its a toilet roll I don't mind, but a kitchen wrap roll 

will also do.  I did this with Kef Cresta's many years ago - and was the cheapest effective mod ever.  

 

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on the amp question - Reading the measurement sections of hifi articles may help to provide some insight into what outcomes are associated with what component specifications (input/output impedence, gain, power into different loads, THD spectra - esp power supply harmonics etc.) 

Extra useful if you can find them for components you own.

 

also useful if you can find a resistance and phase angle vs freq sweep for your speakers to help indicate what power/current drive capability you need. 

 

For me maggies = as much as you can get - currently 500w into 4 ohms .... but always looking for more 😁

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In most cases an extra 3dB of headroom before the amp goes into overdrive and starts distorting.

 

Running good speakers with cheap amps with poor headroom ends up ruining the speakers...decent speakers are usually more expensive than decent amps. So it makes no sense to cheap out on amps.

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Posted (edited)

 

Edited by Sime

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Ben2019 said:

In most cases an extra 3dB of headroom before the amp goes into overdrive and starts distorting.

 

Running good speakers with cheap amps with poor headroom ends up ruining the speakers...decent speakers are usually more expensive than decent amps. So it makes no sense to cheap out on amps.

Having been lucky in recent times to be able to try out well over thirty different amps of varying sizes and builds, both integrated and pre, power and mono block combinations including both solid state and tube in my system with the same speakers I agree with your comments that it makes no sense to cheap out on amps.

 

Good amps can make up for a average speaker, whereas good speakers won’t make up for a average amp.

 

Before trying out so many different amps I used to listen to and agree with the often given advice about spending the vast majority of ones money on speakers then the last 20 - 30% on the rest of the components, I no longer agree with that often commonly held belief.

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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so, say you have 2 amp options you are really keen on. you're not able to do a listening comparison in your setup but based on research,  trusted feedback/opinions, experience with similar units or the brands, marketing, technical details, etc.  you think you'd be happy with either.  features and costs are comparable but there's a difference in output wattage

 

at what point would/should the difference start to influence the decision?

40w vs 80, 40 vs 200... ?

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, wasabijim said:

features and costs are comparable but there's a difference in output wattage

If costs are the same, and one has double power output of the other, it's likely an inferior quality amplifier. That's assuming overheads and costs from the manufacturers' budgets are equivalent and import costs etc. etc. etc. are all equivalent.

 

You will generally find two amplifiers from the same manufacturers with different power outputs will have cost proportional to power, unless they're completely different designs (valve vs solid state, class AB vs A vs D etc.)

Edited by Ittaku

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On 01/08/2019 at 7:15 PM, stereo coffee said:

A rear port is a great opportunity for wait for it... a suitably dimension cylindrical piece of cardboard

you thought I was going to say toilet roll. But with remaining space behind the speaker arrange a 

for the rear port to be extended say 100- 200mm - if its a toilet roll I don't mind, but a kitchen wrap roll 

will also do.  I did this with Kef Cresta's many years ago - and was the cheapest effective mod ever.  

 

Awaiting further instructions for where the miracle tube goes in the rear of a transmission line speaker. :)

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17 minutes ago, deanB said:

Awaiting further instructions for where the miracle tube goes in the rear of a transmission line speaker. :)

Certainly a bass reflex preferably with a rear port seems to benefit, like the one in the thread or a Kef Cresta  , but transmission line

I have my doubts too.   

 

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Just wanted to confirm that the sound of the speakers from Edward at Ascension Speakers are exquisite and no mods are required other than positioning. Through this process of getting new speakers and pairing them with an, in this case, Audiolab amp, without prior testing I have learned so much about the effect of room dynamics and speaker positioning. Incredible what a difference it can make.. I am now more than convinced that my 50 watt amp was not the cause of lack of bass..

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8 minutes ago, Hawk66 said:

Just wanted to confirm that the sound of the speakers from Edward at Ascension Speakers are exquisite and no mods are required other than positioning. Through this process of getting new speakers and pairing them with an, in this case, Audiolab amp, without prior testing I have learned so much about the effect of room dynamics and speaker positioning. Incredible what a difference it can make.. I am now more than convinced that my 50 watt amp was not the cause of lack of bass..

happy to hear and share in you happiness! 

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5 hours ago, deanB said:

Awaiting further instructions for where the miracle tube goes in the rear of a transmission line speaker. :)

 

It doesn't!!  :P  SC was talking about std ported speakers - not TLs.

 

Andy

 

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Just read through this thread and had a bit of a chuckle... I’ve just been thoroughly enjoying listening to a pair of vintage low end concentric Tannoys and a borrowed SET with all of 1.8 glorious watts per channel 😄

 

SS

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On 23/08/2019 at 8:27 AM, TerryO said:

Having been lucky in recent times to be able to try out well over thirty different amps of varying sizes and builds, both integrated and pre, power and mono block combinations including both solid state and tube in my system with the same speakers I agree with your comments that it makes no sense to cheap out on amps.

 

Good amps can make up for a average speaker, whereas good speakers won’t make up for a average amp.

 

Before trying out so many different amps I used to listen to and agree with the often given advice about spending the vast majority of ones money on speakers then the last 20 - 30% on the rest of the components, I no longer agree with that often commonly held belief.

 

cheers Terry

Hi TerryO, 

completely agree, l made the mistake of buying speakers (Dali helicon 400mk2)  that are way above my current amp (marantz ki pearl). I got the Dali at a ridiculous price so l had to buy them.  the biggest difference is definitely the AMP and matching the amp to speakers which lm learning the hard way..  when l hooked up my old speakers on my current amp the synergy is much better and more fluid, although my current speakers do sound amazing my sound is lacking in places. 

how are you finding your Prima Luna HP integrated?  Im considering the evo 400 integrated. 

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