A much better cute speaker than the LS50?

[Snoopy8]

15 hours ago, sfdoddsy said:

So what sounds much better than the LS50, but has a similar form factor?

Many of the above suggestions have a larger form factor than the LS50, but there is something which is close in size...

15 hours ago, sfdoddsy said:

By her because she doesn’t like the look. By me because I don’t like the sound.

You did not mention a budget, but perhaps this very expensive option may pass both the cuteness and sound criteria.

https://www.devialet.com/en-au/phantom-reactor-speaker/

 

I have a pair of the bigger (3 to 4 times) Phantom Golds.  The difficulty is auditioning the Reactors as a stereo pair on stands, perhaps David Jones may have them.

[firedog]

I'd assume adding a sub, even a small one is out of the question? That would probably solve the problem if you let it take over some of the bass duty from the KEFs.

Without asking about budget, the obvious answer to your question would be the much more expensive Kii Three or Dutch & Dutch.

[Ittaku]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

I'd assume adding a sub, even a small one is out of the question? That would probably solve the problem if you let it take over some of the bass duty from the KEFs.

Without asking about budget, the obvious answer to your question would be the much more expensive Kii Three or Dutch & Dutch.

It won't fix the existing bass coming from the KEFs unless he uses a crossover of some sort.

[Steve M]

Nothing will fix the bass from the LS50 for Doddsy ...because he is a fussy (experienced) listener who’s owned Wilson Watt Puppies, Linkwitz Orion’s etc. Once he’s heard proper bass it can’t be forgotten and no amount of port stuffing and dsp xo tricks will conjour  it from the small Kef driver and boxes.

[sir sanders zingmore]

Kii3 or D&D 

[Sub Sonic]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

I'd assume adding a sub, even a small one is out of the question? That would probably solve the problem if you let it take over some of the bass duty from the KEFs.

Without asking about budget, the obvious answer to your question would be the much more expensive Kii Three or Dutch & Dutch.

The OP mentioned he has a nice Velodyne sub, the problem was the LS50’s don’t go low enough, well enough to blend properly with it.

 

Cheers,

 

SS

Edited August 1, 2019 by Sub Sonic

[sfdoddsy]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

I've got a line on a used pair of KEF R3s which I'll  spring on her.

 

Failing that I'll build something, try some Lenehans or perhaps import some Salk Silks.

 

Or something.

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by sfdoddsy

[Guest kab]

[THOMO]

How about some of the new Osborn Eos Reference Elite?

Arguably the world's best tweeter [SEAS Millenium] combined with arguably the worlds best small mid/woofer [Scanspeak Illuminator].

I have not heard them but the Eos Reference are extremely good  and these should be even better.

 

Not exactly cheap but  they seem to be exceptional value.A speaker using that quality components coming out of Europe would probably be three or four times the price [or more].

[firedog]

22 hours ago, Ittaku said:

It won't fix the existing bass coming from the KEFs unless he uses a crossover of some sort.

Many subs will do that for you, and you set the sub so it takes over some of the lowest bass notes of the KEF. That has a pretty good chance of solving the problem. 

[firedog]

20 hours ago, Sub Sonic said:

The OP mentioned he has a nice Velodyne sub, the problem was the LS50’s don’t go low enough, well enough to blend properly with it.

 

Cheers,

 

SS

Don't quite get that one. It's pretty common to run subs with a crossover at as high as 80hz. Certainly that would blend with the LS50's. I'm not familiar with his sub. Maybe he needs a different sub that will blend with the Kefs. 

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, firedog said:

Many subs will do that for you, and you set the sub so it takes over some of the lowest bass notes of the KEF. That has a pretty good chance of solving the problem. 

I did not say it was impossible, just that it would be required. People also may feel uncomfortable sending their main analogue signal into a subwoofer's crossover when they go to great lengths to not corrupt it elsewhere (I use external DSP prior to the preamp for crossover duties whilst still in the digital domain to avoid this.)

[sfdoddsy]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

Don't quite get that one. It's pretty common to run subs with a crossover at as high as 80hz. Certainly that would blend with the LS50's. I'm not familiar with his sub. Maybe he needs a different sub that will blend with the Kefs. 

The problem is that the LS50 doesn't actually reach comfortably down to 80Hz.

 

It starts rolling off at 150Hz and has a port-induced bump there to disguise it.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements.

 

When you add in the crossover slopes from most receivers you get a bump followed by a hole followed by a bump from the sub.

 

You can make it sum properly in the crossover region with some EQ and a processor that uses 24db slopes, but this is a band-aid.

 

As it stands, the LS50 is better crossed to a sub at 100Hz or higher. And this makes the sub audible. Especially in my room where the sub is in a corner.

 

Ideal would be a pair of subs like the Rythmik F8 used as stands and crossed over at 150Hz or so, then a big corner sub.

 

My wife would not be happy about this.

 

My sub is the servo-controlled Velodyne HGS10. It was part of Velodyne's top range a few years back.

 

BTW, this is the LS50 in my room:

Edited August 2, 2019 by sfdoddsy

[zydeco]

11 hours ago, sfdoddsy said:

The problem is that the LS50 doesn't actually reach comfortably down to 80Hz.

 

It starts rolling off at 150Hz and has a port-induced bump there to disguise it.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements.

 

When you add in the crossover slopes from most receivers you get a bump followed by a hole followed by a bump from the sub.

 

You can make it sum properly in the crossover region with some EQ and a processor that uses 24db slopes, but this is a band-aid.

 

As it stands, the LS50 is better crossed to a sub at 100Hz or higher. And this makes the sub audible. Especially in my room where the sub is in a corner.

 

Ideal would be a pair of subs like the Rythmik F8 used as stands and crossed over at 150Hz or so, then a big corner sub.

 

My wife would not be happy about this.

 

 

 

Understand. I've had 2-way speakers that were good, very good, but dealing with the last bit on bass performance introduced the complexity that you mentioned which kind of defeated the purpose. Best of luck with finding a replacement

[THOMO]

Interesting in room measured response there.Pretty typical for that type of speaker with the fudged up bass being obvious.

Here is the white paper for the Meniscus Kairos with in room measurements.Which is more how they should be and which attracted me into building a pair.Much more likely to integrate well with a good sub.

https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kairos-Write-up.pdf

 

 

[Antipodean Brad]

Dunno if the bass would satisfy you, and the price would satisfy the retailer, but what about ...

 

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/concept300

 

 

Or perhaps a pair of Duntech DSM-15 speakers.  There is a pair on ebay, and maybe even here.  Small footprint, beautiful-looking speakers.

 

[Guest Muon N']

sorry, double post.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Muon N'

[Guest Muon N']

On 01/08/2019 at 8:27 PM, sfdoddsy said:

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

I've got a line on a used pair of KEF R3s which I'll  spring on her.

 

Failing that I'll build something, try some Lenehans or perhaps import some Salk Silks.

 

Or something.

 

If you do try some ML-1's and can manage it, try the reference model.

[sfdoddsy]

3 hours ago, Antipodean Brad said:

Dunno if the bass would satisfy you, and the price would satisfy the retailer, but what about ...

 

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/concept300

 

 

Or perhaps a pair of Duntech DSM-15 speakers.  There is a pair on ebay, and maybe even here.  Small footprint, beautiful-looking speakers.

 

Alas, too tall with those stands.

[Ray H]

I would suggest there may be benefit in a demo of the LS50W. I have a pair and they have a sub out. They crossover at around 50 hz from memory.

 

if you want to stick with passive, i mirror the sentiments of the above, ie second hand Sonus Faber Auditor M, Lenehan ML-1 ref. Revel M 22 or M106. B&W 805, ATC SCM19 v2, the Osborn Eos Ref are awesome too.

 

Edit; I think there are still a few pairs of Dynaudio Special 40 B stock around, these would be a fantastic option IMO.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Ray H

[Al.M]

Heard Thomos Meniscus Kairos, very competent midrange and nice balanced standmount.

[sfdoddsy]

I pondered the Kairos a few years back.

 

Nice design but they failed the WAF test too.

 

[krebetman]

Devialet phantoms?

[RoHo]

On 01/08/2019 at 7:07 PM, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Kii3 or D&D 

Deserves a bump.

Small but a world apart, in design sophistication, from the typical passive 2-way tinies.

 

Another option is to get someone clever to re-work the KEFs crossover to better integrate with the sub ie. remove the 100 Hz hump, if possible.  I had this done to a pair of B&W CDM1se I used to own and it was a great improvement when used with a sub.

 

[sfdoddsy]

On 02/08/2019 at 4:15 PM, firedog said:

Don't quite get that one. It's pretty common to run subs with a crossover at as high as 80hz. Certainly that would blend with the LS50's. I'm not familiar with his sub. Maybe he needs a different sub that will blend with the Kefs. 

Here's a visual representation of the issue. This is a measurement of the LS50 vs the KEF R300 from my listening position with sub crossed at 80Hz. The sub has been EQed, not the mains. With the LS50 there is a dip just above the crossover. The R300 is flat in this region.

Edited August 7, 2019 by sfdoddsy