Speaker competitions in Melbourne

[mwhouston]

Just now, davewantsmoore said:

How then do you factor looks vs sound .... and how do you stop the winner just using lots of $?

 

... or is it just up to the judges to call what they like?

 

It might get a bit hard if judges are not all tuned into the same logic/preference?

Then present great looking DIY speakers that sound fantastic. You’re well capable of that. So why not others? 

[mwhouston]

1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

That will count me out perhaps then .... I don't build passive speakers.    They all have their own built-in amplifiers.

Then I would say if you wanted to compete build some passives. After the event you could always power them for your own use.

 

I think a lot get Into speakers because they are have good wood craft skills and the electronics in speakers “can be” easy. It allows the non super technical to get into DIY audio and exercise their skills. 

 

Here is a chance to show off those skills and gain confidence to tackle more electronics based projects. 

[davewantsmoore]

10 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

Then present great looking DIY speakers that sound fantastic

Hey... if they're the rules, then that's fine

 

.... but some people might want to focus on all performance, or all looks.

[davewantsmoore]

5 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

Then I would say if you wanted to compete build some passives.

... or just bring along my own (long) audio cables to run from the source to the speakers (!?!?)

[Wozza_Lee]

I think that as a starting point as almost a proof of concept we try to organise a time to get together no rules. No competition etc and drink beer and listen to each other's work.

That is a nice launching point and also a good place to sort these issues out.

Once we have seen heard what we have as a starting point it will be easier to sort out what we want to judge on and what the categories will be

[Wozza_Lee]

I am working on a transmission line full range speaker and have a 2 way sitting that could go at any stage

[niss_man]

Here is a link to midwest audiofest site for examples on what could be done, categories, music used, how it is judged. I see no problem with active speakers at all, the more in a competition the merrier. Price would be of consideration for an active system as well and should go into the "open"/expensive catagory. 

 

https://www.midwestaudiofest.com/speakerdesigncompetition.php

 

 

[robmid]

Here's a perfect chance for the ultimate unbiased, blind listening test to judge performance.

 

Just do judging in a completely dark room!

[mwhouston]

10 hours ago, Wozza_Lee said:

I think that as a starting point as almost a proof of concept we try to organise a time to get together no rules. No competition etc and drink beer and listen to each other's work.

That is a nice launching point and also a good place to sort these issues out.

Once we have seen heard what we have as a starting point it will be easier to sort out what we want to judge on and what the categories will be

I’m up for that. Organise it. I don’t work but I would imagine weekends or one evening will work best for most. 

[mwhouston]

I still believe (because I practice it myself) that well finished good sounding speakers are they way to go. Part of the overall score would be devoted to fit and finish and looks. With more weighting toward performance or course. Once more against a base music source. 

 

Competitors submit their own music which best showcase their speakers. For example I built a small pair of bookshelf speakers around a 5” woofer and tweeter. They presented music well but really shined with human voice. So when demoing the speakers femal jazz singers were mainly used. I built these years and years ago and one speaker orientated Melbourne Audio Club member still talks about them. I’ll post a link to them on my blog.  

[mwhouston]

Here is the speakers I built very cheaply which really shined with voice. Simple and cheap to build but did performs very well. Finish is basic but I figure with a good WAF. 

 

http://retro-thermionic.blogspot.com/2013/02/voxdeux-inexpensive-two-way-speakers.html

 

[niss_man]

Taken from other diyfest/comp held in USA as an idea of how it could be done.....

COMPETITION CATEGORIES

 

DAYTON AUDIO

Speaker project must use all Dayton Audio drivers in the project design. Any dollar amount or size is welcome.

OPEN DRIVERS UNDER $200 (ANY BRAND, ANY TYPE, NO RESTRICTIONS)

Projects less than $200 per pair to build ($ limit for drivers only). Speaker project can include any brand drivers.

OPEN DRIVERS OVER $200 (ANY BRAND, ANY TYPE, NO RESTRICTIONS)

Projects greater than $200 per pair to build ($ limit for drivers only). Speaker project can include any brand drivers.

OPEN UNLIMITED

Open Unlimited includes speaker projects that are active or cannot be categorized in the other 3 categories. 
If the speaker design has been entered in the Open Unlimited category, the same design without active components cannot be entered into any other category.

*There will be 3 winners from each category

 

MUSIC SELECTIONS TO BE USED IN JUDGING

COMING SOON

#	Artist	Title	Category
1	Billy Idol	White Wedding	Open Unlimited
2	Talking Heads	Burning Down The House	Open Unlimited
3	Billy Joel	Zanzibar (album version)	Open Unlimited
4	Bonnie Raitt	Silver Lining	Dayton Audio
5	Michael Jackson	Beat It	Dayton Audio
6	North Mississippi Allstars	Granny Does Your Dog Bite	Dayton Audio
7	Nora Jones	Come Away With Me	Over $200
8	Marc Cohn	Walking In Memphis (digital version)	Over $200
9	Resphigi Pines of Rome	Near A Catacomb	Over $200
10	Tracy Chapman	New Beginnings	Under $200
11	Dire Straights	So Far Away (album version)	Under $200
12	Hugh Masekela	Stimela	Under $200

 

COMPETITION CRITERIA

The judges will use the following criteria to determine the winners of the Speaker Design Competition:

1. Craftsmanship (visual)
2. Originality / Design (visual)
3. Tonal Balance (audio)
4. Clarity (audio)
5. Imaging (audio)

The speakers under test are driven with a music signal fed from a CD player to an Emotiva Stealth DC-1 preamplifier, with no upstream signal processing, crossovers, or equalization. The Emotiva DC-1's internal DAC and digital-domain volume control are used. The Emotiva DC-1's balanced line outputs feed a stereo Emotiva amplifier to power the entries. Designs featuring additional channels of amplification, active crossovers, equalization, or other processing (including DSP) are restricted to our Open Unlimited category. For systems in the Open Unlimited category, the available outputs from the source are balanced (XLR)/unbalanced analog (RCA), and optical Toslink.

There will be 3 one-minute snippets of music listened to by the judges. These music selections are played per entry, each one minute in length, and these selections are the same for all speakers in a category, but different sets of tracks are selected for each category, with the selections for the categories having higher priced and more complex speakers being more challenging and possibly revealing of sonic flaws. Before each speaker plays, the level is set using pink noise, with SPL monitored via our calibrated Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 system, so that all speakers play at the same level.

Each speaker will be evaluated and rated by the judges, then tabulated and results entered into a spreadsheet. These results will be combined with the audience submission votes to declare winners in the aforementioned categories.

Judging sheets will be sent by mail to the designer's home address following the event. In the event of a tie within a class, the judges will select the ultimate winner.

Please Note:

Commercial entries or entities are prohibited: Individuals or entities that sell finished speakers (part time, full time, or any time) are excluded from registration. Should it be determined that you are in the commercial sales of finished speakers your entry will be removed. Please contact us should you require further explanation or clarification.

Contest committee members will have final say whether a project is excluded or not from competition.

[davewantsmoore]

18 hours ago, Wozza_Lee said:

I think that as a starting point as almost a proof of concept we try to organise a time to get together no rules. No competition etc and drink beer and listen to each other's work.

That's a much better idea

 

... I was just talking like if there was a "DIY hall" at the Audio Show .... with like organisers ad prizes, etc. etc.

If it's not that serious/organised... then don't have rules and just have fun.

[davewantsmoore]

It's difficult for sure.

 

The (active) speaker I would plan to build would use amplifiers/electronics which were WAAAY cheaper than what I am sure the organisers would be using to drive the passive speaker in the comp  (eg. what they propose in the USA contents quoted above).

 

.... and I would be totally in the "drivers <$200" bucket.

 

Oh well.

[A9X]

On 26/08/2019 at 10:19 PM, mwhouston said:

Then I would say if you wanted to compete build some passives.

So you'd turn away Bruno if he'd turned up with a set of Kii Threes (say if this were held 5 years ago)? They simply can't be made passive.

[A9X]

 

On 26/08/2019 at 10:12 PM, mwhouston said:

Then present great looking DIY speakers that sound fantastic. You’re well capable of that. So why not others? 

Because I typically build large speakers and when I looked into the costs for the veneeers I liked, it could easily have added $2k to the build costs.  As I live alone and have zero need for WAF considerations, I just Duratex them or dark stain the ply some are built from, so a large variation in grain effects there.

[Leo Veto]

On 27/08/2019 at 12:31 AM, niss_man said:

Here is a link to midwest audiofest site for examples on what could be done, categories, music used, how it is judged. I see no problem with active speakers at all, the more in a competition the merrier. Price would be of consideration for an active system as well and should go into the "open"/expensive catagory. 

 

https://www.midwestaudiofest.com/speakerdesigncompetition.php

 

 

Yep,that`s exactly what we need in Melb.

[Leo Veto]

We need someone with computer smarts to design and print winning certificates which can be framed by the winners..As we are not taking ourselves seriously,there is no need to go down the trophy path.Seriously though,we need some suitable venue to make this thing work and an understanding that we,the competitors will have to be the main contributors to the costing.

[The_conductor]

This sounds like fun, irrespective of whether a comp or just a show n share. Be cool if sydney could have something like this too. 

 

I'd suggest conisdering a category for younger entrants (thinking kids/teenage) to get more young people into diy audio and engineering - and bring your kids to the event! 

 

Also might be worth considering a "mods" category for people who've built based on existing speakers or commercially available designs - as many start this way. 

 

I myself have a pair of maggies that, once I'm done DIYing, the only factory parts will be drivers that I've rebuilt myself anyway....

[robmid]

Food for thought on this interesting project.

 

If a judges auditioned the classic reference tracks on the suggested list, it seems to me the performance of the first speaker could only be compared to other system/speakers they have heard playing the same tracks.

 

As an alternative, there are thousands of exciting lesser known tracks out there that make the standards sound a bit boring. Decent modern systems are capable of reproducing much more than the oldies offer.

 

How about asking for suggestions and making a fresh list? Streaming has opened up unlimited opportunities to discover extraordinary music.

 

Here is one I found yesterday that will test any system and give you goose bumps at the same time: Soledad - Alberto Iglesias - Yuli (Original motion picture sound track)

[A9X]

One great benefit to using classic tracks is that almost everyone will know them. If in a testing session, I played the track you suggested, I would have no idea what it should sound like, so how am I expected to know if the speaker is being accurate to it?

[mwhouston]

Just simple logistics; even with only ten competitors, 10 mins to setup, 15 mins of music, 5 mins to remove is 30mins.

 

Ten competitors need 5 hours. Add to this two 30 min break for judges is six hours. If you started at 1pm that’s a finish time of 7pm. There is always delays so maybe 7:30. Then announcement of results and packup 8:30. 

 

If run by a club as a fundraiser/entertainment for members at $20 per competitor for 10 competitors is only $200. Twenty visitors at $5 entrance fee for non club members is only $100. Club makes $300. If this is not part of a normal meeting, room hire could swallow all of this. 

 

Im not sure there is even ten genuine entrants. 

 

 

[Gee Emm]

Food for thought.

[Leo Veto]

On 20/08/2019 at 9:44 AM, Wozza_Lee said:

I like all of this discussion and plan to get behind it. To be honest I don't like the idea of getting the MAC involved.

Why can't we do it ourselves. Hell we could even have a $10 entry fee put $5 towards SNA (we all seem to spend a lot of time here) and the other into beer/prize

We would need a venue which we would have to hire for a week,that`s how long the competition would take.I would say the same 5 songs would have to be played through all speakers.It would need excellent security for lock up.

[mwhouston]

19 hours ago, Leo Veto said:

We would need a venue which we would have to hire for a week,that`s how long the competition would take.I would say the same 5 songs would have to be played through all speakers.It would need excellent security for lock up.

I very much doubt of there are even ten potential presenters.