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buddyev

New / used FF camera - suggestions

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I am an Olympus OM D user - OM-D em 1 & em 5ii with a decent collection of Olympus and Panasonic glass. Its probably a dead end as far as new developments go but I love the system and will be keeping it. It’s very portable, the lenses are excellent and it fits most of my purposes very well.  

 

Most of the time small sensor restrictions aren’t that important to me.  I’m in it for fun not money so absolute picture quality isn’t an issue. But I’ve been shooting a lot of low light landscapes recently and going through some old pics from a Nikon D90 APSC the comparisons aren’t flattering - usual thing noise, dynamic range etc. So, I’m thinking of getting an FF for this type of photography. I don’t think there’s any point in going APSC. I probably won’t  go crazy with collecting lenses, maybe one or two widish zooms.

 

 I’m a former Nikon user so that’s where I’m going probably going. 

I’m thinking of

a Z6 - lightweight is attractive but so few native lenses at the moment. 

a used D750  huge backlist potential of used lenses. 

Sony A7 - lightweight is attractive

probably not a Canon, Pentax, Panasonic or Fuji

 

any suggestions/thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by buddyev

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I am also an Olympus and Nikon user, have a few lenses for both, mostly use the Olympus for macro shots, Nikon for birds etc.

 

I would be looking at used Nikon, http://cameraexchange.com.au/ have a lot of used Nikon bodies and lenses as well a a myriad of other camera/lens/tripods/accessories.

They are  Nikon Authorised Dealer, which makes new warranty easy, they gave me a 3 month warranty on the used camera I bought there.

I have found them to be helpful and the cameras/lenses/tripods I have bought there to be very good, near new.

Open most days, worth a look?

 

Russell.

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@betty boop should have an input here.  At @joz recent GTG he had the latest Canon mirrorless camera which my son is using,  According to my son, it gives hm better dynamic range in the dark because he does events photography in night clubs,  hired by the owners to promote there venues...  worth checking out, light weight too compared to the the top of the line Canons.

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38 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

@betty boop should have an input here.  At @joz recent GTG he had the latest Canon mirrorless camera which my son is using,  According to my son, it gives hm better dynamic range in the dark because he does events photography in night clubs,  hired by the owners to promote there venues...  worth checking out, light weight too compared to the the top of the line Canons.

My personal cameras of choice going way back have always been Olympus and Nikon.  In another life I used Canon SLR film cameras for event and school photography. Perfectly fine cameras, but the trauma of that work killed my love for photography for years and left me with a completely unreasonable prejudice against Canon. The name is enough to conjure up interminable lines of  snotty, disgruntled school kids or teenage debutantes and their partners in ill-fitting tuxedos. The horror ... the horror.

 

Edited by buddyev

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1 hour ago, buddyev said:

a lot of low light landscapes recently

Do  tell...Russ? Long exposure? HIgh Iso? Need to pull lots of detail from shadows?

 

Most cameras if you set them at their base iso say 100, the image should be clean enough.  

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1 hour ago, Sirmorebeer said:

Do  tell...Russ? Long exposure? HIgh Iso? Need to pull lots of detail from shadows?

 

Most cameras if you set them at their base iso say 100, the image should be clean enough.  

Just fiddling around really. I spend quite a bit of time on the peninsula and have been photographing cloud formations and stuff. It’s not detail so much as dynamic range - heavy dark cloud tends to turn a bit mushy with small sensor, you just don’t get the gradation of tone.

Truthfully, the Olympus does most of what I want and it’s probably down to my lack of ability with camera raw. But hell, it’s an excuse to get a new toy.

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3 hours ago, buddyev said:

I am an Olympus OM D user - OM-D em 1 & em 5ii with a decent collection of Olympus and Panasonic glass. Its probably a dead end as far as new developments go but I love the system and will be keeping it. 

Have EM 1 and EM 5, only issue I had with low light is focusing and that I believe was resolved in EM 1 Mk 2.

 

What lense were you using and what settings? JPEG or RAW?  Maybe you allowed the ISO to drift too high?

 

Given you already have M43 lenses, why not go EM1 MK2 or even the EM1X?   

 

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5 minutes ago, buddyev said:

It’s not detail so much as dynamic range - heavy dark cloud tends to turn a bit mushy with small sensor

Yeah, regardless of sensor size, shooot with the lowest iso will provide the best dynamic range it is capable of.  Fast lens do come in handy. 

 

If your budget allow,  the Nikon D850 is capable of wide dynamic range (around 14 stops) and resolution.  Fantasic ergonomics, but it is a ful size Dslr tho. Hunt around for a used one. 

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Have EM 1 and EM 5, only issue I had with low light is focusing and that I believe was resolved in EM 1 Mk 2.

 

What lense were you using and what settings? JPEG or RAW?  Maybe you allowed the ISO to drift too high?

 

Given you already have M43 lenses, why not go EM1 MK2 or even the EM1X?   

 

 

I shoot raw and jpeg - depends. Jpeg if I'm shootings snaps,  raw if i think its something I want to fiddle with later.

Ive never had a low light focus problem - always seems to work well. Actually i don't really have any criticism of Olympus - they are lovely cameras and I love shooting with them.  I will definitely be keeping them. Its a question of recognising their advantages and limitation .

I have excellent (but pricey) pro series lenses incl:  Oly 17mm f1.8, 60mm f2.8 macro, 12-40 f2.8, 40-150 f2.8 & Panasonic 7-14 f4 , 35-100 f2.8 (an absolute gem of a lens). 

They're quick in m4/3 terms but getting enough light is always an issue because a 2.8 m4/3 is 5.6 in FF terms. An em1 ii or em1x can't fix that - its in the nature of small sensors, 

No interest at all in the em1x - the great attraction of Oly is the size/weight advantage and that one is a brute with a little sensor - I don't get the logic of it.  Oly did this with their last iteration of 4/3 which died with their E3 - it was as big and heavy as FF but still had a tiny sensor.

I will be interested in the new em5 iii which is due this year - I think thats the way Oly should go: high quality small cameras that accentuate the camera size advantage that m4/3 sensors make possible. Otherwise i think m4/3 will disappear. That would be a real shame. 

Just went for a play with a Nikon Z6 - unfortunately they didn't have a lens. The body feels really made but its still light in the hand. Very desirable. 

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1 hour ago, buddyev said:

I have excellent (but pricey) pro series lenses incl:  Oly 17mm f1.8, 60mm f2.8 macro, 12-40 f2.8, 40-150 f2.8 & Panasonic 7-14 f4 , 35-100 f2.8 (an absolute gem of a lens). 

They're quick in m4/3 terms but getting enough light is always an issue because a 2.8 m4/3 is 5.6 in FF terms. 

You do have a lot of lenses. Not sure about f2.8 being equivalent to f5.6 for full frame? I think this is something the anti M43 brigade made up? If it was true, M43 will be useless in anything other than bright sunlight.

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Edited by buddyev

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

You do have a lot of lenses. Not sure about f2.8 being equivalent to f5.6 for full frame? I think this is something the anti M43 brigade made up? If it was true, M43 will be useless in anything other than bright sunlight.

I am a bit of a lens freak. The Oly 12-40 is my standard but the Panasonic 35-100 f 2.8 is probably my favourite - it’s a superb lens which I picked up used for not too much money. I prefer it to the 40-150 and usually get better results with it. 

No, it’s quite true about the ff equivalence. Generally I don’t care about it, but it does impact lower light photography. 

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If morning sunrise shots are your thing, low noise and dynamic range is important, then you cannot go past a Nikon D850. Ergonomics, durability and 35mm class leading image quality. 
If astrophotography or night is your thing, stick to a 20 to 24MP full frame sensor. More MPs and noise performance drops off. Yes can do a surprisingly lot in post processing with noise but better to not have it in the first place. So Nikon D750 is a good choice
If you want durability, then Canon and Nikon are better choices. 
One manufacturer camera systems may be an obvious choice at a particular time but this may change as technology changes. I have switched from one to the other when autofocus or usability has been significantly better on one system
So what do I use:

Canon 5Ds for portraits, landscape, seascape and nightscape

Canon 7DII for sports photography, wildlife

Olympus E-M1 MkII for street and general photography 

All my camera bodies are 3 to 5 year old in technology but lenses play just as much importance to selecting a system as a camera body. 
What you do with the final image probably has more bearing on what you can get away with. Viewing on social media a max of 2MP is all that is required so any camera sold should suffice if tech specs were all you are comparing. Got a 50MP ff sensor, then throwing away 48MP. What is the point?  If a large print on the wall is the goal, then go for it. 
 

HB

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If you're keen on Nikon, definitely check out the Z6/7. The new lenses, even the kit ones are great. There are more native lenses due over the next few years, I'm hanging out for the 105mm macro. I've tried a few of my lenses, including a couple of my macro's on the Z body via the FTZ adapter, but I feel the native lenses appear to render the images  a little nicer.  

 

While I use a m4/3 setup more than any of my other cameras, it is purely based on the subjects I like to photograph. Once Fuji, and/or Nikon bring out a mirrorless body with an articulated screen, then things may change.  One of the annoying issues for me using the m4/3 system is micro detail, or lack there of. I've looked at hundreds of images on line taken with m4/3 setups including some expensive lenses, and they all appear to me, to suffer the same lack of micro detail.
 

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On 20/07/2019 at 11:43 AM, Addicted to music said:

@betty boop should have an input here.  At @joz recent GTG he had the latest Canon mirrorless camera which my son is using,  According to my son, it gives hm better dynamic range in the dark because he does events photography in night clubs,  hired by the owners to promote there venues...  worth checking out, light weight too compared to the the top of the line Canons.

I missed this note completely,

 

indeed its been great to move across to the canon EOSR mirrorless, I am not new to canon mirrorless as have used about 3 generations of their aps-C mirrorless and the canon family means moving across is quite seamless. 

 

to give an idea of size below is identical canon 5D4 DSLR with 24-1054L IS lens vs the mirrorless version i switched to with canon EOSR and 24-105 4LIS 

 

40093815893_32a2dca3c7_h.jpg

 

there is a considerable size and weight difference .... and also cost...I actually saved money buying and selling :D am not a pro and for me the EOSR is more than sufficient.

 

there is quite a significant price difference too the canon 5D4 retails for $1400 ! more than the EOSR mirrorless version.

 

if want cheaper the full frame smaller EOSRP (mirrorless version of the canon 6D2 full frame DSLR) retails I saw in the sales recently for just under $1,1k which is extra ordinary good buying for getting into full frame.

 

the lenses on these things are quite amazing i am finding. even the budget ones. I bought a RF35 1.8IS which is great for walk around and compact light weight and was only ~$400 and happens to do great macro as well ! 

 

On 20/07/2019 at 12:21 PM, buddyev said:

My personal cameras of choice going way back have always been Olympus and Nikon.  In another life I used Canon SLR film cameras for event and school photography. Perfectly fine cameras, but the trauma of that work killed my love for photography for years and left me with a completely unreasonable prejudice against Canon. The name is enough to conjure up interminable lines of  snotty, disgruntled school kids or teenage debutantes and their partners in ill-fitting tuxedos. The horror ... the horror.

 

understand suscpet there are some canon scars in that case, pulling the brand out of any contention :) 

 

only other full frame brands are sony, nikon, panasonic - leica though very expensive for those.

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5 hours ago, betty boop said:

I missed this note completely,

 

indeed its been great to move across to the canon EOSR mirrorless, I am not new to canon mirrorless as have used about 3 generations of their aps-C mirrorless and the canon family means moving across is quite seamless. 

 

to give an idea of size below is identical canon 5D4 DSLR with 24-1054L IS lens vs the mirrorless version i switched to with canon EOSR and 24-105 4LIS 

 

40093815893_32a2dca3c7_h.jpg

 

there is a considerable size and weight difference .... and also cost...I actually saved money buying and selling :D am not a pro and for me the EOSR is more than sufficient.

 

there is quite a significant price difference too the canon 5D4 retails for $1400 ! more than the EOSR mirrorless version.

 

if want cheaper the full frame smaller EOSRP (mirrorless version of the canon 6D2 full frame DSLR) retails I saw in the sales recently for just under $1,1k which is extra ordinary good buying for getting into full frame.

 

the lenses on these things are quite amazing i am finding. even the budget ones. I bought a RF35 1.8IS which is great for walk around and compact light weight and was only ~$400 and happens to do great macro as well ! 

 

understand suscpet there are some canon scars in that case, pulling the brand out of any contention :) 

 

only other full frame brands are sony, nikon, panasonic - leica though very expensive for those.

Where have you been, Al? I’ve been sitting here patiently for the last 4 months waiting for guidance. 😀

I checked out the Nikon z6 - feels really well made and very nice in the hand. I very nearly dived in but, realistically, the undoubted quality of FF is less important to me than fun and portability. With a 35-70 it’s still a pretty big chunk of hardware. I can throw my em5ii and 3 little primes or the 12-40 in my backpack and forget they’re there. I have  them with me most of the time and really enjoy using them. 

I’m not a pro so I don’t have clients to worry about. Also I’ve significantly improved my pp skills so the noise and other irritations are reduced. 

 

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20 minutes ago, buddyev said:

Where have you been, Al? I’ve been sitting here patiently for the last 4 months waiting for guidance. 😀

I checked out the Nikon z6 - feels really well made and very nice in the hand. I very nearly dived in but, realistically, the undoubted quality of FF is less important to me than fun and portability. With a 35-70 it’s still a pretty big chunk of hardware. I can throw my em5ii and 3 little primes or the 12-40 in my backpack and forget they’re there. I have  them with me most of the time and really enjoy using them. 

I’m not a pro so I don’t have clients to worry about. Also I’ve significantly improved my pp skills so the noise and other irritations are reduced. 

ha sorry didnt see this one and swapped to mirrorless about 12 months ago and canon so dont think be any help anyways :D 

 

sounds like happy with what you have though buddy, so why change for change sake :) 

 

ps vs my dslr i ran aps-c canon eosm mirrorless for some years and 3 gen, but given how small the eosR is compared to the dslr i sold off the eosm. not to say the eosm doesnt still offer still some size advantage still ! so can understand.  

 

wiht the large mount sizes on both canon and nikon with their new mounts the bodies are effectively going to be larger than any smaller sensor format. and while the canon RP is quite a bit smaller for instance the lenses are going to be larger still :)

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One of the annoying issues for me using the m4/3 system is micro detail, or lack there of. I've looked at hundreds of images on line taken with m4/3 setups including some expensive lenses, and they all appear to me, to suffer the same lack of micro detail.

tend to agree, 

 

The Sigma fp will be my next camera, 

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