Price gap between amp and speaker.

[POV]

On 13/07/2019 at 8:22 AM, Ooogh said:

These are rather large amounts of cashola you are looking to invest Rick. 

I would be listening to every combination you can at the given combined price of amp and speakers. Unfortunately in our new economic structure there are less hifi shops in Melbourne but I would be visiting every one of them. You may stumble across something that suddenly changes your desires. I know a number of shops still carry some traded gear that might let you step up a level or two at the same price point. 

 

100% agree with this.

 

 @Audioshoppin suggest with the amount you are spending absolutely worth taking your time and exercising some patience.  Many (most) of us that have been around a while have been through the cycle of rushing in, never quite being truly happy with the outcome, only to be selling and changing direction or upgrading. ..... 

 

One pick up from me reading through your posts is you mention that your room is not very well damped.  Don't underestimate how important the room is to achieving a good end result.   If the room is not well damped imaging and sound stage can fall apart,  and with it most of the enjoyment that comes with listening to a high fidelity system!     With some research (and possibly some measurement!) you can vastly improve rooms without turning them into a studio!  Treating first reflection points  with a combination of  diffusion, and absorption  makes a huge difference.  One thing to consider is if can find a retailer that you trust should be able to get them to do a home visit to actually look at the room and understand the issues.       

 

Since you are in  Melbourne certainly worth a trip to The Audio Experts.  They have a great range of speakers in the price range you are looking at and certainly worth checking out the Whatmough range if you like Dynaudio.  They also carry some lovely source and amplification gear from the likes of Luxman, Parasound, Arcam, Hegel etc.    I have personally dealt with them a lot and have always received excellent service and advice, and ended up with a system am very, very happy with.  One warning though, it was a visit there that made me realise I wanted to significantly increase my budget!     .                                                                                                                                                       

[POV]

On 13/07/2019 at 7:35 AM, Audioshoppin said:

Abolutely. My impression of the Dynaudio's is that they are indeed a wonderful speaker but seem quite fussy when it comes to amplification.

I think you'll find a lot of folks have that impression of higher end speakers.  There's no magic happening though, provided the amplifier has enough headroom, a high signal to noise ratio, a low total harmonic distortion, and a low crosstalk it's just down to topology and personal taste of from there.  The combination you heard and didn't like someone else may love. 

 

My brother in law as an example a huge Arcam fan and loves the end result.   For me whilst i find it enjoyable, just sounds a little thin and clinical compared to my Parasound gear in the same room and speakers.  This is why audition is so important, notwithstanding there are variables you can't control if auditioning in stores...

[Audioshoppin]

Update: So I have finally purchased a hifi system! Getting the Contour 30's and the Electrocompaniet amp delivered to my home this Friday. The deal I was offered and the exquisite sound I heard during the audition was good enough to clinch the deal for me. Can't wait to spend many a few hours going over my CD collection and rediscovering my music. 

Gonna be a long few days wait.

 

[Bunno77]

16 minutes ago, Audioshoppin said:

Update: So I have finally purchased a hifi system! Getting the Contour 30's and the Electrocompaniet amp delivered to my home this Friday. The deal I was offered and the exquisite sound I heard during the audition was good enough to clinch the deal for me. Can't wait to spend many a few hours going over my CD collection and rediscovering my music. 

Gonna be a long few days wait.

 

Fantastic!

Looks like that Electro amp has a DAC so probably no rush for a digital upgrade. Maybe computer audio will be an option

[Audioshoppin]

On 16/07/2019 at 6:36 PM, Bunno77 said:

Fantastic!

Looks like that Electro amp has a DAC so probably no rush for a digital upgrade. Maybe computer audio will be an option

Thanks mate. I just got a call from my dealer. He is on his way with my new equipment. Got my brother over (a fellow audio tragic who happens to own a pair of Focal 1038's)... won't be long now. Keep you posted on how it all went. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread by the way.

[Audioshoppin]

Had a few hours with the new system and here are my thoughts. First of all hats off to Tivoli Hifi. It really has been great doing business with them, they offered me a fine deal, were helpful with all my enquiries, and perhaps the thing that impressed me most (aside from the price reduction I was offered) was the fact that the store manager arranged for delivery at 2pm today and the goods were at my door at 2:04 pm! Good service...

 

As for the speakers. I am hearing details in songs I have listened to for over a decade I had never heard before and my poorly dampened, hard floor room has not stopped the contours from digging deep, when they need to go there. 

I guess if I had to look for a down side it is that my hifi is now more dependent upon the quality of the recording than it was before, and the fact that i am already considering what I can upgrade next. 

I reckon my next step (when the smoke clears from my wallet) is a new CD player but that is at least a year away.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Audioshoppin

[joz]

4 hours ago, Audioshoppin said:

Thanks mate. I just got a call from my dealer. He is on his way with my new equipment. Got my brother over (a fellow audio tragic who happens to own a pair of Focal 1038's)... won't be long now. Keep you posted on how it all went. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread by the way.

Yes, dealer and hifi seem to go together like pie and sauce.

[Steever]

I’ve previously owned speakers 3 x the cost of my amplifier.

I’ve currently got amps worth over double what my speakers cost.

The combinations just worked and give great results.

Price can be used as a rough guide in understanding the quality of equipment but, there are numerous instances where equipment synergies buck the “rules”..

[TerryO]

5 hours ago, Audioshoppin said:

Thanks mate. I just got a call from my dealer. He is on his way with my new equipment. Got my brother over (a fellow audio tragic who happens to own a pair of Focal 1038's)... won't be long now. Keep you posted on how it all went. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread by the way.

So now that your brother has heard your new system when is he going to sell his 1038’s and get some Dyn’s? .... 

 

Glad to hear you are very happy with your new system, that is excellent news.

 

cheers Terry

[Audioshoppin]

9 hours ago, TerryO said:

So now that your brother has heard your new system when is he going to sell his 1038’s and get some Dyn’s? .... 

 

Glad to hear you are very happy with your new system, that is excellent news.

 

cheers Terry

LOL, doubtful mate. The Dyno's are far too subtle a speaker for his tastes, though he does admire their sound. He much prefers the "big" sound he gets from those thumping Focals. 

[TerryO]

Regarding the original question, in my experience it’s the amplifiers that make the speakers, not the speakers that make the amplifier.

 

I have heard some very average speakers sound amazing when driven by very good amps, I have not heard very good speakers sound amazing when driven by a average amp.

 

cheers Terry

[Audioshoppin]

On 16/07/2019 at 6:36 PM, Bunno77 said:

Fantastic!

Looks like that Electro amp has a DAC so probably no rush for a digital upgrade. Maybe computer audio will be an option

What would be the best way to get high quality sound from my PC (or laptop) to my Amp? All this new fangled computer stuff with its Bits and Bytes makes an old timer like me scratch his head in wonder.

[Al.M]

16 minutes ago, Audioshoppin said:

high quality sound from my PC (or laptop) to my Amp

WAV, FLAC or similar hi Rez and instead of MP3 and similar low rez recordings played through your amp dac.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Al.M

[n0bleINtP]

19 minutes ago, Audioshoppin said:

What would be the best way to get high quality sound from my PC (or laptop) to my Amp?

The EC has a USB input (from the pictures).  Assume this can be used as an external DAC for a computer - ie. just need the USB cable from laptop to the Amp?

[Audioshoppin]

3 hours ago, n0bleINtP said:

The EC has a USB input (from the pictures).  Assume this can be used as an external DAC for a computer - ie. just need the USB cable from laptop to the Amp?

USB would be limited by bandwidth wouldn't it? I imagine it would would sound awful compared to CD...

[Audioshoppin]

3 hours ago, Al.M said:

WAV, FLAC or similar hi Rez and instead of MP3 and similar low rez recordings played through your amp dac.

How would I get these files to my amp without losing resolution? I get the feeling that audio is experiencing a similar revolution today that those of us back in the day saw when we watched vinyl give way to compact disc. Streaming and digital files are most likely the future, but I have no idea how best to make the most of the new technology without sacrifcing sound levels for convenience.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Audioshoppin

[n0bleINtP]

10 minutes ago, Audioshoppin said:

How would I get these files to my amp without losing resolution?

Connect your computer to the amplifier's DAC through either its USB (use an old printer cable?), or  connect to its optical S/PDIF input (depends on whether your computer sound card has optical out.

Depending on your operating system - the USB DAC should be recognized by the computer - may require a driver to be installed. It will then appear as an additional "sound-card" or "output device". Through USB you can go all the way up to 768k PCM (although the EC DAC might not run at that rate), or really high rate DSD. Plenty of bandwidth.

Going with the S/PDIF with optic fibre/cable might be limited to 192k PCM. Still high resolution. You could also connect your existing CD to the amplifier's DAC with optical out - and get the benefits of the better DAC in the EC amp.

Hopefully something can be made to work - and let you test the DAC inside the amp.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by n0bleINtP

[sakabatou]

14 minutes ago, Audioshoppin said:

USB would be limited by bandwidth wouldn't it? I imagine it would would sound awful compared to CD...

There are many reasons why usb might not sound as good as a CD, but bandwidth isn't one. Even class 1 usb has greater audio bandwidth than you can get from a redbook CD. I can't think of any new non-portable dac that wouldn't be at least class 2, which means it should support resolutions many times higher (this would likely be dac-limited, rather than usb-limited)

 

Give it a try and see

[Al.M]

As per the above two posters for the loss of quality is insignificant and there are many google search guides to learn from such as https://www.crutchfield.com/S-SLntIySCWeh/learn/high-resolution-audio-guide.html

[Wayne Elliott]

20 hours ago, TerryO said:

Regarding the original question, in my experience it’s the amplifiers that make the speakers, not the speakers that make the amplifier.

 

I have heard some very average speakers sound amazing when driven by very good amps, I have not heard very good speakers sound amazing when driven by a average amp.

 

cheers Terry

I'm with ya' Tezza. Good quality Source, Amp through Budget Speakers can Sound pretty Good. Poor Quality Source & Amp through High Quality Speakers always Sounds like Crap.

[Uglu]

On 12/07/2019 at 8:13 PM, Audioshoppin said:

Surely the speaker, being the only component you actually hear must come first? I admit I am not technically minded when it comes to Hifi, I am just a bloke who loves his music so I may be wrong, but if I am I'd be interested to know why (preferably in laymans terms)

Surely the speakers are NOT the only component you hear. Otherwise why do you buy the rest?

 

I have no problem with the idea of spending the most on the speakers but saving on the rest is a mistake, everything matters. I wouldn't worry about blowing the speakers because they are 4 ohms. If anything I would worry the other way around but as other people mentioned 4 ohms is nothing unusual. If you were talking 2ohms it would be a different matter.

[Al.M]

1 hour ago, initforthemusic said:

I have not heard very good speakers sound amazing when driven by a average amp.

The Electrostatic Speakers I have used (Quad 57, Accustat 121 and Spectra 11, McKinleys ESL) sound amazing on average amps, while better amps make them even more amazing. For whatever reason, ESLs are more consistently good with average amps vs cone driver speakers, although there are other issues like having enough watts and drive for an ESL.

 

Attention is needed for both amps and speakers, one does not completely make up for the others weaknesses and careful matching is very important. The worlds best of either unmatched will not compensate for the other though it will comparatively sound better vs a lessor item.

 

I have a collection of 7 odd speakers from small and large cone driver box speakers and ESLs and several amps ranging from 25-200w solid state, 60w tube and Class D  and no single amp does well on all of those speakers, with exception of the comment on ESLs above.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Al.M

[POV]

5 hours ago, Uglu said:

Surely the speakers are NOT the only component you hear. Otherwise why do you buy the rest?

 

I have no problem with the idea of spending the most on the speakers but saving on the rest is a mistake, everything matters. I wouldn't worry about blowing the speakers because they are 4 ohms. If anything I would worry the other way around but as other people mentioned 4 ohms is nothing unusual. If you were talking 2ohms it would be a different matter.

 

Only problem with this is that folks seem to be reluctant to spend on the second most important part of the system, the room.  So by all means spend away on the rest of the system, but get the room sorted first.

Edited July 21, 2019 by POV
splelling

[Uglu]

2 hours ago, POV said:

 

Only problem with this is that folks seem to be reluctant to spend on the second most important part of the system, the room.  So by all means spend away on the rest of the system, but get the room sorted first.

As I've said "everything matters" ideally the room should be a good, dedicated and treated one but we then have to start comparing the price of audio equipment vs real state.

For lots of people having a room which is not a compromise dedicated mainly to general living  might not be an affordable or practical option.

[DJGopal]

Dynaudios like power, way more power than most people realise.  Musical Fidelity amps, whilst accurate are sterile, lean and boring.   It's a "high fidelity" combo with zero emotion or involvement and OP's listening experience confirmed this.

I would literally reverse the equation and as a general rule spend more on the amplification than the Dynaudios.  You need to be looking at amps that have the kinda power, grip and control of a Bryston to bring them to life.