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Tobes

Vicoustic DC-2 diffusers

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I added some of the Vicoustic diffusers to my room and thought it might be worth mentioning the attachment method used.

Vicoustic talk about gluing to the walls - but this arrangement is far too permanent for my liking.

With acoustic treatment you need to have the flexibility to change things if needed, you may want to accomodate different speaker positioning, different speakers or even move to a different room.

I used the 3M command strips - two piece sticky backed strips held together with velcro.

17206-command-phs-large-white-4pk-jpg.jp

The adhesive strips have excellent adhesion to the DC2 foam panels. The DC2 panels weigh just under 1.4kg and just two strips will hold 2.7kg - or you could use more if you wished.

The velcro then allows easy removal if required and the strip adhered to the wall can be removed without leaving any mark at all. 

The strip on the actual diffuser is undamaged and the panel can be re-attached in a different position by simply adding a new strip for the wall side.

Of course you can remove and re-attach to the same position as required via the velcro. Very convenient.

I experimented without using any actual wall attachment first by propping up/vertical stacking the diffusers on objects to find the arrangement that sounded best.

The setup below provides a significant improvement in my acoustics.

Most noticeable is the enhanced recreation of space and recorded ambiance.

While I mostly listen to music I put on a movie last night and noted a distinct improvement in sound-field precision and image steering.

I have just a 4 speaker setup but results are very impressive.

front_diffuser.jpg.6fa5a910493dca3e091aa4738917df2e.jpgromm_diffusers.jpg.5f51267c14f9a83b5434ea39fe482105.jpgback_diffusers.jpg.43a56042bcbcccf61b6c4e87775c823f.jpg 

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Nice. I have some vicoustic bass traps (which I’m very happy with) and am about to add some more panels. I will give this method a go. 

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Thanks for the mounting tip Tobes.

How do you find the DC-2 so close behind your listening position?

Did you try more absorbent acoustic materials there before deciding to put the diffusors there?

Cheers

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Yes I have tried various arrangements of absorbent material behind my listening position. I found that I had to be careful because too much absorption was not to my liking - too dead.

I had the 60x60cm foam panels and opted to cut them in half so I could experiment with slimmer vertical arrangements with spaces in-between. I found this quite satisfactory.

When I got the DC2's I tried various mixes, the arrangement pictured above - with a slim vertical absorption flanked by the DC2s is one that gave good results.

I expect to do more experimenting.

I'd like to try some of the Vicoustic Wavewood panels in that position - which are a mixture of diffusion and absorption (see pic below).

Depending on how that goes I may then move the 4 DC2 panels from the back wall to the ceiling reflection point. 

 

vicoustic_wavewood_light_brown.jpg

I see Vicoustic also have an Ultra Wavewood panel that has some good looking acoustic properties - will check this out also:

https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/vicoustic-website.appspot.com/o/vicpattern-ultra-wavewood%2Fproduct-docs%2FVicPattern_manual_2019.pdf?alt=media&token=69cd6bd7-51a0-424a-b753-9a343af9f928

Edited by Tobes

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Looks great. Did you use any form of measurement?

I used to have a room with similar proportions yo yous and it took a while to work out that speakers on the long wall sounded better than on the short wall. Have you tried both?

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I did envisage trying both but as as things have turned out the short wall placement doesn't offer the same practical and aesthetic advantages for my purposes.

  • Short wall placement would mean the couch would be in front of the entry point and pushed into the room which would make the room look cluttered and less open.
  • I'd have to place the TV against the wall with the window and it would impinge on same and be close to the heater panel.
  • Long wall placement means I can have wide speaker placement and still have the speakers well away from the side walls - I like the spacious sound this creates.
  • It would be more difficult to integrate my headphone nook which currently occupies the ample space at the far end of the room.

So for these reasons I haven't tried it. Happy with the sound I get on the long wall and still have more options to further optimise the sound.  

I haven't used any measurement to assist in optimisation (yet), more trial and error. I did calculate the room modes before deciding on the room dimensions (basic dimensions follow Sepmeyers 1 : 1.6 : 2.33 ratio, then tweaked for minimum stacking at chosen size).

 

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On 13/07/2019 at 6:28 AM, AudioGeek said:

Looks great. Did you use any form of measurement?

I used to have a room with similar proportions yo yous and it took a while to work out that speakers on the long wall sounded better than on the short wall. Have you tried both?

Having listed all my excuses above - I decided to bite the bullet and try short wall placement.

Bottom line: I like it!

As predicted its eaten up some available space and I now longer have room for my recliner and headphone nook - not sure the less open look has been welcomed by my other half either.

Now have to experiment with re-placement of the diffuser panels and other treatment. But even without adjusting any of the diffusers, and just placing a DIY panel at the first sidewall reflection points, it sounds excellent.

20190722_141712.thumb.jpg.856a70853af5ab6571d05678313fa142.jpg

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Looks good to me! 

More space behind the listening position always opens up the sound.

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That's a nice arrangement on the side walls. I myself have a room where there are alcoves that make placing diffuser panels on opposing side walls difficult.

 

Absorbtion would likely prove better in my case. But it's a big room, around 8m long by 4.7m wide and 2.7m high. I would need at least 12-15 of these diffuser panels.

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@Tobes

Hello,

an you please tell me the type/brand of Bass Traps you have behind your system?

Thx, Bob

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I like DC2 

8637FCD3-5263-4746-B38B-A3FB8677B8F1.thumb.jpeg.c9b92b2713c168c3e5f68f10299a541d.jpeg

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On 07/07/2019 at 12:57 PM, Tobes said:

I added some of the Vicoustic diffusers to my room and thought it might be worth mentioning the attachment method used.

Vicoustic talk about gluing to the walls - but this arrangement is far too permanent for my liking.

With acoustic treatment you need to have the flexibility to change things if needed, you may want to accomodate different speaker positioning, different speakers or even move to a different room.

I used the 3M command strips - two piece sticky backed strips held together with velcro.

17206-command-phs-large-white-4pk-jpg.jp

The adhesive strips have excellent adhesion to the DC2 foam panels. The DC2 panels weigh just under 1.4kg and just two strips will hold 2.7kg - or you could use more if you wished.

The velcro then allows easy removal if required and the strip adhered to the wall can be removed without leaving any mark at all. 

The strip on the actual diffuser is undamaged and the panel can be re-attached in a different position by simply adding a new strip for the wall side.

Of course you can remove and re-attach to the same position as required via the velcro. Very convenient.

I experimented without using any actual wall attachment first by propping up/vertical stacking the diffusers on objects to find the arrangement that sounded best.

The setup below provides a significant improvement in my acoustics.

Most noticeable is the enhanced recreation of space and recorded ambiance.

While I mostly listen to music I put on a movie last night and noted a distinct improvement in sound-field precision and image steering.

I have just a 4 speaker setup but results are very impressive.

front_diffuser.jpg.6fa5a910493dca3e091aa4738917df2e.jpgromm_diffusers.jpg.5f51267c14f9a83b5434ea39fe482105.jpgback_diffusers.jpg.43a56042bcbcccf61b6c4e87775c823f.jpg 

Be very careful with those adhesive tabs. I used them and they’ve all eventually failed.

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On 28/07/2019 at 10:19 PM, Heifetz said:

@Tobes

Hello,

an you please tell me the type/brand of Bass Traps you have behind your system?

Thx, Bob

Bob, they're DIY bass traps I built to John Risch's instructions (scroll down the page for the bass trap recipe).

The construction is MDF ends which hold 2 concentric cylinders of fairly heavy wire mesh between which are compressed fibreglass batts (centre is void). The whole thing is wrapped in in 1" polyester blanket (to trap the fibreglass) and then finished with loose weave hessian fabric. 

On top of the circular bass trap I have a DIY 120mm thick absorption panel across the corner.

 

Even though the dimensions of my room (6x4.3x2.7m) were chosen to minimise stacking of bass modes the bass traps are very effective in cleaning up the bass.

Edited by Tobes

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30 minutes ago, joz said:

Be very careful with those adhesive tabs. I used them and they’ve all eventually failed.

@joz I've found them to be very secure with the DC2 panels so far.

The tab attached to the wall must be pushed home firmly to guarantee a secure attachment - this is pretty easy to ensure with the solid DC2 panels. The tabs stick very securely to the polystyrene panels and the wall side tabs would be difficult to remove except by the pull release tab. The materials being adhered to will effect the 3M tabs efficacy. 

I'll keep an eye on them and reply back to this thread if I get any failures.

 

The Wavepanels are a different story, not really appropriate because they are spongy and considerably heavier.

I've glued 3mm MDF backing to back of the Wavepanels (as you suggested elsewhere) but won't use the 3M strips because the sponginess of the panels doesn't allow proper pressure to be applied and click home the velcro without risking damage to the panel.

I plan to hang 4 of the 120cm Wavepanels on the sidewalls with hooks into the MDF backing. 

Edited by Tobes

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8 hours ago, Tobes said:

Bob, they're DIY bass traps I built to John Risch's instructions (scroll down the page for the bass trap recipe).

Thank you.

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On 22/07/2019 at 7:13 AM, Tobes said:

Having listed all my excuses above - I decided to bite the bullet and try short wall placement.

Bottom line: I like it!

As predicted its eaten up some available space and I now longer have room for my recliner and headphone nook - not sure the less open look has been welcomed by my other half either.

Now have to experiment with re-placement of the diffuser panels and other treatment. But even without adjusting any of the diffusers, and just placing a DIY panel at the first sidewall reflection points, it sounds excellent.

20190722_141712.thumb.jpg.856a70853af5ab6571d05678313fa142.jpg

 

Well done Paul.   Exactly how I have secured mine to the wall behind the speakers. 

8 hours ago, joz said:

Be very careful with those adhesive tabs. I used them and they’ve all eventually failed.

 

You must be doing something wrong Joz😁. I have 10 x DC2 for 18 months and only one adhesive has failed.

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On 29/07/2019 at 7:31 AM, metal beat said:

 

You must be doing something wrong Joz😁. I have 10 x DC2 for 18 months and only one adhesive has failed.

Shane, I think Joz's bad experience was with the heavier Wavepanels. The problem is not just the weight IMO,  the 3M strips just work better with the more rigid DC2 panels.

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15 hours ago, Tobes said:

Shane, I think Joz's bad experience was with the heavier Wavepanels. The problem is not just the weight IMO,  the 3M strips just work better with the more rigid DC2 panels.

Mine were the heavier panels as shown here in the pics. Bloody annoying having the edges of the panels crushed when the fall.

The sticky tabs let go of the walls 😤

I have now moved onto a more permanent fixing solution.

 

 

0I9A1159.jpg

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, joz said:

The sticky tabs let go of the walls 😤

I have now moved onto a more permanent fixing solution.

Same here, the sticky tabs always let go eventually.

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They will fall off... Especially in summer.
Second time round I stapled the adhesive labels into the plaster of the walls and ceilings. Haven't yet found an effective way to properly secure the labels to the Dc2 panels hanging above my seating position-had one just fall from my roof on Friday.
With wavewood panels I glued mdf panels onto the spongy backing then stapled the adhesive into that...no problem with those

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On 22/07/2019 at 2:13 PM, Tobes said:

Having listed all my excuses above - I decided to bite the bullet and try short wall placement.

Bottom line: I like it!

As predicted its eaten up some available space and I now longer have room for my recliner and headphone nook - not sure the less open look has been welcomed by my other half either.

Now have to experiment with re-placement of the diffuser panels and other treatment. But even without adjusting any of the diffusers, and just placing a DIY panel at the first sidewall reflection points, it sounds excellent.

20190722_141712.thumb.jpg.856a70853af5ab6571d05678313fa142.jpg

 

Just wondering after living with the rearrangement along short wall now for a little while are you still preferring the performance with this orientation?

Is there anything about the sound that is not optimised having it configured this way and have you adjusted any of your acoustic control materials that were still in situ from the previous arrangement?

 

I have had my own system firing across both long wall (5.8m) and how it is currently set up with speakers across the short wall (4.3m) for extended periods.  I am about to try it again with speakers across the long wall, hence my questions about how you have found the change.  My only issue I had was sitting so much closer to the back wall was problematic.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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Chris, I'm still preferring the short wall placement for SQ and getting used to the new arrangement. I see your dimensions are very close to mine (6x4.3x2.7m) and that's a nicely shaped room, so you can get good results with both positions.

I think short wall placement offers the most potential and, in the case of the ATC's I'm using, is probably more along the lines of what the designer intended.

As always you have to work around domestic considerations. In terms of space usage the long wall placement was better (for me) but I'm going with the short wall setup.

 

The biggest improvements with short wall placement (with speakers and seating position almost 2m off the front and back wall respectively) is the greater image stability and depth perspective. There is much better discrimination of acoustics/ambient sound in recordings and the relative positioning of sounds. 

This is not to say the long wall placement was bad in these respects, but in hindsight the comb effects created by proximity to the rear wall was messing with the sound - despite treatment to mitigate the impact. Nonetheless I was getting very satisfactory sound on the long wall.

 

The speakers are placed very close to the classic equilateral triangle with the centre of the front baffles about 2.6m apart. 

 

After some experimentation I've ended up with the DC2 diffusers distributed around the room. Treatment is symmetrically placed left to right.

Side walls now have 120x60cm Wavepanels added - originally ordered to try on the long wall setup, but I'd changed before arrival. The vertical panels are at the first reflection point (I found these to sound better than my DIY panels in this position) 

 

20190805_121322.thumb.jpg.1d15fbcf03a2e0065074d7b92e1ea284.jpg

20190805_121033.thumb.jpg.9fb8ee4de7ae69fed5c04afff244b0ee.jpg

 

I said I wasn't going to bother with the back wall, but I found that some extra diffusion improved the sound.

20190805_145529.thumb.jpg.0106e48342115b17072c371112196be2.jpg

 

Edited by Tobes

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Yes interesting our rooms are so similar in size.

Cheers for letting me know how you have settled optimising the distribution of acoustic treatments in your room.

Even though my gut feeling is I will come to the same conclusion you did, I still think I will try my Voxativ speakers along the long wall just to be sure which orientation gives me the best sound.

Cheers

Chris

ROOM 2019.07.14.jpg

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Long wall has definitely helped with spaciousness. Using artnovion brand of sound treatment for absorption, diffusion, and bass trap.

20190804_165029.jpg

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On 10/08/2019 at 4:23 PM, plato8010 said:

Long wall has definitely helped with spaciousness. Using artnovion brand of sound treatment for absorption, diffusion, and bass trap.

20190804_165029.jpg

Where did you get your Artnovion gear from?

I heard them in Antwerp last year and was very impressed.

Cheers

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