Addicted to music Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, Orpheus said: Update. The amp is still being tested. I suspect that they will not replicate the fault, The number of fuses you have replaced, you need to give it time, only this will tell them there is an issue. 18 minutes ago, Orpheus said: but Bryston's technician in Canada has said it is faulty if it blows a time lag fuse of the correct specification, which it did. Correct rating fuses should never blow under normal operation, and that goes with everything you buy. If it starts to blow its an indication that something is drawing way more current than usual (faulty condition ) 22 minutes ago, Orpheus said: I have asked for them to replace with the current model (this model has now been updated), but they refuse to do that. They don’t have to. They can either fix it and return it, or refund your money when it’s been requested. It is a worthy request though and if they satisfy that I guess you’d be happy. 27 minutes ago, Orpheus said: I have asked them to refund my money, but the retailer so far is stalling/refusing, and BusiSoft say it is the retailer's responsibility. Full refund is up to the retailer, however I am lead to believe that if the product is faulty and they are unable to repair or replace then a refund is fully warranted. And yes, at this point in time the retailer is stalling. How they handle this will determine the level of customer satisfaction. 37 minutes ago, Orpheus said: Better off buying used. At least the gear's been real world tested! Not necessarily, buying new especially electronics usually mean new components, new caps etc etc Even used gear can have faults even under world use and testing. At this stage you need to be sure you know what you want, if it’s a full refund you asked, stick to your guns. Like I said to you, always have a backup plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 You might also want to check what your mains voltage actually is. If out of spec (max in Aus is 253V sustained) then you won't be doing any favours for the rest of your gear and appliances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Quark said: You might also want to check what your mains voltage actually is. If out of spec (max in Aus is 253V sustained) then you won't be doing any favours for the rest of your gear and appliances. Quark, none of my gear over many years has had a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Many years ago, I had a Dunlop Max 200G tennis racquet. After several years, it cracked when I hit the court surface taking a ball on the half volley. I rang Dunlop and told them what happened. They said “bring it in”. I brought it in, they had a look, and they replaced it with the then current version on the spot. Didn’t mind where I’d bought it from. Didn’t care how long I’d owned it for. I’ve never forgotten it. I still use Dunlop balls, and I still use that as my example of good customer service. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Orpheus said: Quark, none of my gear over many years has had a problem. Doesn't mean your mains voltage hasn't increased recently - just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Quark said: Doesn't mean your mains voltage hasn't increased recently - just saying... You would think increased voltage would increase the chance of a fuse going, but my understanding is that the opposite is true, Quark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Orpheus said: You would think increased voltage would increase the chance of a fuse going, but my understanding is that the opposite is true, Quark. That's not my experience but YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Orpheus said: I have asked for them to replace with the current model (this model has now been updated), but they refuse to do that. I have asked them to refund my money, but the retailer so far is stalling/refusing, and BusiSoft say it is the retailer's responsibility. Nobody seems to really care about potential damage to Bryston's reputation for reliability and customer service, even though I have drawn their attention to the thread. I am really sorry to read about this mate, but I am also utterly unsurprised. Good and professional retailers and distributors often have a lemon policy under the terms of which, your amplifier would certainly qualify for immediate replacement. Bryston has undergone a change of ownership and is now run by bean counters. The Australian distributor has also changed a while back and their track record is abyssmal. They clearly don't give a schit and are trading upon Bryston's reputation, which is becoming somewhat tarnished. Your case is not isolated by any means. The real irony here is that Bryston gear is still very good, but for how long, is open to question. Pursuit of only the dollar is their mutual abiding ethos. Edited July 5, 2019 by rantan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drake Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Update. The amp is still being tested. I suspect that they will not replicate the fault, but Bryston's technician in Canada has said it is faulty if it blows a time lag fuse of the correct specification, which it did. I have asked for them to replace with the current model (this model has now been updated), but they refuse to do that. I have asked them to refund my money, but the retailer so far is stalling/refusing, and BusiSoft say it is the retailer's responsibility. Nobody seems to really care about potential damage to Bryston's reputation for reliability and customer service, even though I have drawn their attention to the thread. Better off buying used. At least the gear's been real world tested! It really is time for Bryston to get serious and distribute through a HiFi company, not a bloody software company- a la Busisoft.To muck customers around like this is just unbelievable in a competitive market.Bryston make great products, but they seem to be controlled by engineering boffins who really are on a parallel universe when it comes to customer support and satisfaction.And just to confirm-I am a Bryston customer running Bryston gear...but boy-oh-boy to hear another story like my experience proves they are slow learners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Coming in late but I too once had an expensive amplifier repeatedly blow fuses, well the circuit breaker on the main switch board. At great expense it was sent back to the dealer (80kg in weight) to be told I must have a faulty power circuit. Clearly the sales guy at the dealer turned it on, it fired up ok. he sent it back. I know for a fact that they didn't get their tech/repair guy look at it. Their repair guy doesn't work at the dealership but works for himself. It would have cost the dealer money to have the repairer look at the amp. I got an electrician to check my wiring. More expense. No problem. I rang the repair guy. He said (carefully) remove the outside panels (disconnected from power) and send some pics of the insides to see if there was anything obvious amiss. 10 mins later I discovered the wire connecting the main power button was shorting out against the chassis !! It was obvious as the insulation had burnt through. Sometimes when they raw area touched the chassis it tripped my RCD. He sent me a replacement wire, no cost. No more problems. There is an old saying in Medicine "more is missed by not looking than by not knowing". @Orpheus good luck on the testing and hope they fix it for you! David 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josipg Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I had a similar issue with my Byston B135 SST2 I initially replaced it with a fast blow and it would blow on startup from time to time, then contacted bryston in US and got the following response. We used to use 3.15A, Fast Acting fuses in the B135 for 240V operation, but have recently changed this to a slow blow fuse of the same amperage, to prevent nuisance fuse failures. I changed to slow blow and happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Orpheus said: You would think increased voltage would increase the chance of a fuse going, but my understanding is that the opposite is true, Quark. Increasing mains voltage doesn’t blow In line main fuses, However if voltage rails on many amplifiers are not regulated, increasing mains voltage can shortened the life on some components and exceed the voltage ratings such as electrolytic storage caps for power supplies and cause all sorts of grief. Just remember what I posted earlier, fuses are designed to be current sensitive not voltage sensitive. Edited July 5, 2019 by Addicted to music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said: Coming in late but I too once had an expensive amplifier repeatedly blow fuses, well the circuit breaker on the main switch board. At great expense it was sent back to the dealer (80kg in weight) to be told I must have a faulty power circuit. Clearly the sales guy at the dealer turned it on, it fired up ok. he sent it back. I know for a fact that they didn't get their tech/repair guy look at it. Their repair guy doesn't work at the dealership but works for himself. It would have cost the dealer money to have the repairer look at the amp. I got an electrician to check my wiring. More expense. No problem. I rang the repair guy. He said (carefully) remove the outside panels (disconnected from power) and send some pics of the insides to see if there was anything obvious amiss. 10 mins later I discovered the wire connecting the main power button was shorting out against the chassis !! It was obvious as the insulation had burnt through. Sometimes when they raw area touched the chassis it tripped my RCD. He sent me a replacement wire, no cost. No more problems. There is an old saying in Medicine "more is missed by not looking than by not knowing". @Orpheus good luck on the testing and hope they fix it for you! David Great post @Audiophile Neuroscience This is a typical fault condition that blows in line mains fuses. And that’s what fuses are designed to do, to advise of a fault condition and safe guard surrounding components. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 Southside Electronics have tested the amp with a load for about a week and can't replicate the fault. Bryston will not allow a larger fuse to be substituted, despite their own schematic saying that if the voltage drops, it is permissible to install a 4 amp fuse. Bryston stay instal one of their power conditioners. Out of the question; it would probably blow a fuse :)! Bryston, the distributor, and the retailer (Kevin, from Class A Audio) all say that as there is "nothing wrong with it", I cannot return it. This despite the fact that it blew the fuse it was supplied with on start up, and blew a further, correctly rated fuse, within a week. And no other piece of audio equipment in my house, from Audio Research Ref 250 mono blocks, to Plinius SA102 and preamp, to Rotel, to McIntosh MC275, etc, etc, has ever experienced this problem. That's customer service for you. I will pick the amp up. Don't have any affection for it as a result of this experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Orpheus said: Southside Electronics have tested the amp with a load for about a week and can't replicate the fault. Bryston will not allow a larger fuse to be substituted, despite their own schematic saying that if the voltage drops, it is permissible to install a 4 amp fuse. Bryston stay instal one of their power conditioners. Out of the question; it would probably blow a fuse :)! Bryston, the distributor, and the retailer (Kevin, from Class A Audio) all say that as there is "nothing wrong with it", I cannot return it. This despite the fact that it blew the fuse it was supplied with on start up, and blew a further, correctly rated fuse, within a week. And no other piece of audio equipment in my house, from Audio Research Ref 250 mono blocks, to Plinius SA102 and preamp, to Rotel, to McIntosh MC275, etc, etc, has ever experienced this problem. That's customer service for you. I will pick the amp up. Don't have any affection for it as a result of this experience. this plain sucks..... all around quite frankly ... if i were in your shoes I woudl be at a loss ! a power conditioner ! get stuffed the thing is supposed to work in australia and in your home. a suggestion for you... is take it back. let its blow its fuse and then take it back to be fixed again... keep doing this until the message gets through.... and then if the stance is still being taken, lodge with the accc obviously has a fatal flaw and not fit for service....I imagine 3 strikes be enough. I know one retailer I buy from that has a 3 strikes policy ie take back get something else or money back. in this day and age..... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 If the distributor and the retailer had even a shred of decency they would have replaced it by now. By their refusal to replace they are effectively saying that the OP has no worth as a customer. Personally, I would never deal with either of them again. They may be smug and think they have won but they have lost a customer for life and if that is good business then I must live in another universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Really, really sucks. Was the Bryston working particularly hard when the second fuse blew? Hard to see that unclipped music at any level should be a problem. A test signal at full blast into a dummy 4 ohm load might overload it - but any music would have a much lower average level. Not too uncommon for amplifiers to have a smaller power supply than required to maintain full output continuously. But this is a Bryston! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, n0bleINtP said: Really, really sucks. Was the Bryston working particularly hard when the second fuse blew? Hard to see that unclipped music at any level should be a problem. A test signal at full blast into a dummy 4 ohm load might overload it - but any music would have a much lower average level. Not too uncommon for amplifiers to have a smaller power supply than required to maintain full output continuously. But this is a Bryston! Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 @Class A Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.E. Pennypacker Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Contact fair trading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surprisetech Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 On 01/07/2019 at 7:29 PM, Orpheus said: Does anyone know whether it is safe to use a slow-blow fuse on a power amp? I know that my Audio Research power amps use them. Depends on the design. If the manufacturer specifies fast-blow, don't fit slow-blow or you could risk additional component failure/s before the fuse blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, surprisetech said: Depends on the design. If the manufacturer specifies fast-blow, don't fit slow-blow or you could risk additional component failure/s before the fuse blows. This is all dealt with in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drake Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Time to go to ACCC.The product must perform in home as demonstrated.Take them to ACCC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drake Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 This is gobsmackingly dumb behaviour by both brand owners.I think the word within the hifi community will be “weigh up the risks before getting involved with either of these brands”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 been reading this thread, few years ago bought a Bryson pre amp,working great then one day it was like someone turned the volume up to 10, scared the hello out of me,sent it back got it fixed, then a few months later, bang , did it again, both times I thought i blew the speakers. not game to give it a third chance to blow my speakers, so it's sitting in the box, don't want to sell it and burn someone else but i do have 2 Bryston power amps and really love them. go figure PS if someone wants to roll the dice with my pre amp ,let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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