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jazzman53

The Eros Clone DIY Electrostatic Speaker

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On 05/07/2019 at 1:07 PM, A9X said:

...... It is simple physics; different times of flight between the centre of a long panel and the two ends (plus everywhere in between vs centre), is trigonometry and then the recombination at MLP cause comb filtering via superposition.

Is this a timing difference?

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On ‎7‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 12:53 PM, Nada said:

Is this a timing difference?

I don't think it is. More a case of mind over matter, I think.

 

Sound is pressure waves in the air.

 

When a sound propagates from  a line source, the pressure wave passes the ear as a wave front and the ear "listens to" that wave once. It does not find an additional series of "waves" from different angles from different parts of the line source diaphragm, because of the way sound is propagated through the air.

 

That is why the same effect does not occur from an "inferred" point source that happens to be 10 to 600 mm in diameter.

 

The ear is a wonderous device. Sadly the brain is far more manipulative.

 

Cheers

 

Grantn

 

 

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10 minutes ago, gnnett said:

More a case of mind over matter, I think.

No, it's simply that you don't understand the physics of speakers, especially lines.

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It's just the distance from different parts of the panel are different = time difference = phase difference.

There are some people here who are almost always correct - A9X is one of those.

I have been integrating a woofer with my stats, in the same basic structure as the earlier photos.

If you imagine the woofer emitting say 80Hz, that siniusoidal wave runs up the panel, there is no avoiding it.

In fact the diaphragms are hit by every pressure wave bouncing around the room.

Stats always measure badly, what a shame their holographic capability is so addictive.

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On 08/07/2019 at 5:57 PM, gnnett said:

I don't think it is. More a case of mind over matter, I think.

 

Sound is pressure waves in the air.

 

When a sound propagates from  a line source, the pressure wave passes the ear as a wave front and the ear "listens to" that wave once. It does not find an additional series of "waves" from different angles from different parts of the line source diaphragm, because of the way sound is propagated through the air.

 

That is why the same effect does not occur from an "inferred" point source that happens to be 10 to 600 mm in diameter.

 

The ear is a wonderous device. Sadly the brain is far more manipulative.

 

Cheers

 

Grantn

 

 

Finally.  Someone who understands wave theory.  Hallelujah.

 

Also someone smart enough not to respond to trolling. 

 

On 08/07/2019 at 7:14 PM, Nigel said:

It's just the distance from different parts of the panel are different = time difference = phase difference....

 

Nigel,  that seems correct on first glance but for a panel to do that it has to be modelled as having multiple point sources that are discrete and so far separated in space that they operate independently and so cause timing differences and so phase issues.

 

This can happen with multi-driver speakers of course but any well designed panel is sufficiently uniform that modelling it like that is wrong.  A panel as Grantn  described acts as a whole and sends off a uniform wave.

 

To back up the physics of wave mechanics as applied to finite unified line sources are panel impulse response measurements that show at a glance well designed panels have clean impulse with no blurred or sequential timing issues.  

 

On 08/07/2019 at 7:14 PM, Nigel said:

 I have been integrating a woofer with my stats, in the same basic structure as the earlier photos.

If you imagine the woofer emitting say 80Hz, that siniusoidal wave runs up the panel, there is no avoiding it.

  

Im not exactly sure how you configured your speakers but the idea of a pressure wave running up the panel might be another worrying idea with no basis.

If the woofer is sealed it puts out monopole waves at low frequencies that spread to the back as well as the front.  If the woofer is aligned with the panel with an air gap then both sides of the panel will be pretty much in the same pressure and immune.

If the woofer is OB dipole then the panel can placed be in the null.

 

On 08/07/2019 at 7:14 PM, Nigel said:

It's just the distance from different parts of the panel are different = time difference = phase difference................

 

......their holographic capability is so addictive.

Those two lines are contradictory.   If your panels image precisely they must have excellent time difference = phase coherence.  Your ears and brain say the idea panels scramble phase is erroneous.


I hope you dont mind me responding.  I just dont want a fellow music lover to have his enjoyment ruined by bad science.  On that point theres a very weird post somewhere that panels have comb filtering from timing differences. Thats just more nonsense and not even worth  responding to. 

 

Enjoy your music.

 

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