MrSQ Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Hey there all. We all understand that speaker technology has not changed much since they were introduced in the 1920's etc. Though I understand some better materials have been introduced to provide better use such as move from paper cone to poly/ Kevlar cones, all the way from soft dome tweeters to titanium tweeters to a more elaborate crossover systems that commence from 6db to 24db crossovers in a 2/3 way systems. To add to the cost, the introduction of enclosures, from simple box design to more elaborate curved wood, that is sanded, polished and given a great cover and added feet to reduce vibrations and enhance room acoustics. The use of exotic materials again like cast frames also adds to the cost. I just cannot comprehend why some speakers can cost over $10K and some cost just a few grand. I have been delving into home / car audio for the past 30 years so I have had my fair share of exposure to purchase, testing and installing speakers in the worst enclosure, a vehicle where added sound deadening / box building, adequate wire size is crucial to the environment. In a home environment, it easy to place speakers towards the listener and even a modest bookshelf speakers would sound decent enough given a clean (undistorted) power. Having both, American, and European brands of home and car speakers, I have found European speakers to be more focused on jazz, blues, classical, and vocal tones whereas US brands were more focused on Rock / rap / electro style music. Still does not justify why some brand of speakers cost so much even today. I understand some reputable companies have continued research and development team so they are constantly changing their products and following current world trends through marketing and research. Any advice would be appreciated on this topic. Cheers! Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I would say speaker technology has change even in the last 5 years, in some cases a lot - Devialet phantom. There is a huge sound quality improvement between $2000 system and $10k, then the improvement is slowing down and above $20k you need to pay double for any improvement at all. The improvement means better details, dynamics and soundstage. Of course you need to seat in a sweet spot in a quite environment and focus on music to fully appreciate the quality of $10k speakers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwhouston Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I would say pick a price range you are comfortable to pay and go listen to speakers in that price range. Osborn speakers are generally good value for money. Think of the the rest of your gear. Your source and amp or amp/preamp combo should be in the same ball park as speakers you are auditioning. Some buyers get very bound up in names, don’t. Listen with your music in the store with other gear similar to yours and think how they will sound in your room with more of your fav. music. No reason why you can’t get excellent sounding speakers for under 10K. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 R&D you have to pay for it some how. when takes a company with 100,000's hours of engineers over 8 years, all those prototypes to come up with a new model it has recoup all that some how... same with facilities for R&D...it drives up cost. as does small base to get that return. there is a fair bit of work gone in over years in drivers and cabinets let alone even simple component level if compare back to stuff from the 20s ? that said nothing to say a speaker like ls3 5a or something of ilk cant do nicely. yam 1000M fro decades ago are still favourite with folks. speakers are one thing that take through the decades... most of my speakers are a decade or so old...not to say there isnt something newer thats better ? there will always be something thats newer thats better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 The most expensive gear is extremely difficult to produce and costs a fortune, not just for R&D, but to manufacture, with exotic materials like diamond coated beryllium tweeters, CNC billet aluminium baffles, extremely expensive crossover components, cabinetry etc. They definitely sound better than their counterparts at 1/10th the price, but it is truly impossible to quantify it in a numerical percentage way. These are the changes that convert nice clean accurate sounding hi-fi to the level where things start sounding real in your lounge room. Once you've heard gear in the stratospheric price range you'll understand how it differs from just "good hi-fi". Does it warrant to spend 10x as much for all this technology? This is a philosophical question only the purchaser can answer as only they can determine the value they get out of the components, and what spending that amount of money means in real terms to their financial situation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, betty boop said: R&D you have to pay for it some how. when takes a company with 100,000's hours of engineers over 8 years, 365 x 24 x 8 = 70080 hrs someone must have worked OT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: 365 x 24 x 8 = 70080 hrs someone must have worked OT! missed the "'s" and the team effort...usually not a lone ranger in these big operations ... ps my above quote is a true one from one of the speaker giants so not making up the figures .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSQ Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Oh, we all forgot to mention tax and exchange rates that add to the cost as well. I remember back 30- 40 years ago many speakers were assembled in Australia. Aaron, Welling, Studio craft, Richer Audio, VAF Research and many others. Whilst the drivers were purchase overseas to save costs the cabinets were made/ assembled in Australia. Whatmough is a famous Australian Brand but you have to search hard to find a pair. I don't know what drivers they used but the cabinets were made in Australia. I suppose now we are left to purchase gear from overseas that can costs a lot. I don't now about you guys but with an average family with a million dollar debt, its hard to dedicate $50K just for your home theatre needs which we all like to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thathifiguy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, MrSQ said: Oh, we all forgot to mention tax and exchange rates that add to the cost as well. I remember back 30- 40 years ago many speakers were assembled in Australia. Aaron, Welling, Studio craft, Richer Audio, VAF Research and many others. Whilst the drivers were purchase overseas to save costs the cabinets were made/ assembled in Australia. Whatmough is a famous Australian Brand but you have to search hard to find a pair. I don't know what drivers they used but the cabinets were made in Australia. I suppose now we are left to purchase gear from overseas that can costs a lot. I don't now about you guys but with an average family with a million dollar debt, its hard to dedicate $50K just for your home theatre needs which we all like to do. Whatmough stopped distributing when Colin passed away. They are only available now via Whatmough/The Audio Experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOMO Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) There are plenty of really good Australian made speakers you can buy -Hulgich,Osborn ,Legend, VAF,Krix,Adelaide Speakers just to name some. With our low exchange rate at the moment they represent really good value. Edited June 24, 2019 by THOMO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey72 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I think spend $4-$5k on a standmount and you'll be very happy. Spend more then you'll have to start thinking about room treatments, size, shape etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwhouston Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, THOMO said: There are plenty of really good Australian made speakers you can buy -Hulgich,Osborn ,Legend, VAF,Krix,Adelaide Speakers just to name some. With our low exchange rate at the moment they represent really good value. Hulgich are astounding at any price. Heard them twice from two very different systems. Wouldn’t mind a pair myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 The answer is yes! Listen and then choose what is appropriate to the rest of your system components. Decide what you can absolutely afford and then spend a bit more. You will appreciate the extra spent on the quality in the future. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, MrSQ said: Oh, we all forgot to mention tax and exchange rates that add to the cost as well. I remember back 30- 40 years ago many speakers were assembled in Australia. Aaron, Welling, Studio craft, Richer Audio, VAF Research and many others. Whilst the drivers were purchase overseas to save costs the cabinets were made/ assembled in Australia. Whatmough is a famous Australian Brand but you have to search hard to find a pair. I don't know what drivers they used but the cabinets were made in Australia. I suppose now we are left to purchase gear from overseas that can costs a lot. I don't now about you guys but with an average family with a million dollar debt, its hard to dedicate $50K just for your home theatre needs which we all like to do. There are very good systems for sale for 30-50% of the RRP price in very good condition. With $5k-$7k and a little bit of patient you can find something really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Assisi said: The answer is yes! Listen and then choose what is appropriate to the rest of your system components. Decide what you can absolutely afford and then spend a bit more. You will appreciate the extra spent on the quality in the future. John Or do what I did and buy the speakers you think best exemplify what you're seeking. (in my case - Hulgich). Get to admire them every day and take great satisfaction from making a good investment, lot like having a classic car or motorbike etc. Then change each component if necessary to extract maximum performance! Probably pointless trying to convert, enjoy whatever journey you take - many baulk at committing beyond a certain level/ price. Edited June 24, 2019 by evil c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Yes definitely the best will always be expensive but the law of diminishing returns does kick in.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, MrSQ said: We all understand that speaker technology has not changed much since they were introduced in the 1920's Now that’s a bold generalization. And couldn’t be further from the truth. Edited June 24, 2019 by Sime V2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Agree speakers have improved in sound quality on a average of every few years.as good as the 70s or 80s speakers still are they are miles of the sota. Of today.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHC Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, MrSQ said: I just cannot comprehend why some speakers can cost over $10K and some cost just a few grand. I don't believe there is an easy simple answer to your question. Audio researchers testing speakers at Harman's R&D facility have rise questions about the correlation between high speaker prices and their quality. One of the key researcher, Dr Sean Olive, wrote the following in a comment to his blog (http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-loudspeaker-specifications-are.html dated 20 August 2009) which is relevant. "If the loudspeakers are competently designed, as the price increases you should more extended bass, and higher SPL output with less distortion. You may also get better controlled directivity since these designs employ multiple array drivers (versus an 8-inch 2-way for example). You should also get nicer looking industrial design, more cutting edge technology with things like active/amplified drivers, room correction, etc. As a general rule, there are diminishing returns in sound quality beyond a few thousand dollars -- particularly if the loudspeaker is designed by a small company that has limited access (or none) to sophisticated engineering and measurement tools. Unfortunately, the high-end is crowed with small companies like this which I think explains the increased variability in sound quality among different brands of "high-end" loudspeakers." Edited June 24, 2019 by LHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Smaller companies do have to charge more than big companies in order to survive. It’s hard for them to compete. I believe you can spend 10 grand on a speaker and get better sound than a 20 grand speaker if you look around. Some speaker companies simply charge to much for there products and they arnt always worth it.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Speaker driver technology has advanced a lot, and the tech' behind cabinet construction and crossovers and their components too. Look at the typical speaker from the 70's, it was merely a chip board box and what was passed off as a crossover was often not a lot more than an electrolytic cap on the tweeter, if it was higher end it maybe have included more electrolytic caps and some iron core inductors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I gets the feeling, and no offense, the OP hasn’t heard a variety of speakers in multiple price ranges. Speakers in all all ranges are vastly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) As far as cost goes, first you have to understand the costs to the manufacturer, materials including shipping and freight plus duties, labour, a factory with machinery and the power bill along with rent and insurance, business registration, an accountant, wages for employees,....and then add advertising and marketing, if the market doesn't know about you product/s how are you going to sell any. I maybe have left some things out even. All too often if someone doesn't understand the running costs of a business they will quibble about product costs. Edited June 24, 2019 by Muon N' Oopos, I had the boss wagering the staff intead of giving them wages :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Is it really worth buying high end speakers costing thousands?? It was for me. I'm still enjoying them and a recent upgrade in my source is easily noticed. Of course, YMMV. Edited June 24, 2019 by GregWormald 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 The high cost of many mega buck $30-100k speakers still doesn’t add up when compared to say making a family car for one third or half that in terms of way more R&D, engineering, production and parts. The average parts production cost of speakers can be anything from 5-20% of sale price often about 10% with the ratio for mega buck stuff being further apart, more prone to paying for reputation with lower % perceived sound improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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