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jamm753

BI Wiring Denon POA S10 mono amps

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Hi Wondering if I could get some advice.

 

There's a pair of Denon POA S10 mono amps for sale in classifieds.

 

Just have a question regarding the bi wiring these amps.

 

My speakers are Ambience 4 ohm which can be bi wired.

 

As the amps have A & B binding posts and it says bi wiring on the amps,  I assume you use both A & B to bi wire.

 

It also says on the amp A&B is 8 - 16 ohms.

 

Would it be  safe to use A&B wiring with 4 ohm speakers - or which way can this can be done?

 

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If the amp is only rated for 8-16 ohms then you shouldn't run it with 4 ohm speakers.

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There is no problem using 4 ohms speakers.

 

You will get best sonic result of bi-wiring your speakers if you connect both sets of speaker cables from only 1 set of speaker output terminals. Either A, or either B.

 

Do not use both A and B output terminals from the amps. 

 

 

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I wouldn’t be surprised if the impedance of ribbon speakers such as ambience goes quite a bit lower than the stated 4 ohms.

 

If that’s correct then drive them at your peril with an amp only rated to 8 ohms

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the impedance of ribbon speakers such as ambience goes quite a bit lower than the stated 4 ohms.

 

If that’s correct then drive them at your peril with an amp only rated to 8 ohms.

 

True!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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4 hours ago, jeromelang said:

There is no problem using 4 ohms speakers.

 

You will get best sonic result of bi-wiring your speakers if you connect both sets of speaker cables from only 1 set of speaker output terminals. Either A, or either B.

 

Do not use both A and B output terminals from the amps.

 

If the amp is only rated to 8 ohms and above, then it's either unable to drive 8 ohms without massive frequency response distortion, or it's simply unable to safely drive it at all, meaning it will either throttle and produce almost no output, or it will burn out. I would be very cautious about recommending it being okay to use 4 ohm speakers with it.

Edited by Ittaku

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First of all, the caution on some amps are there to tell users not to run 2 pairs of speakers simultaneously if either one pair are 4 ohms.

 

There is no problem running a pair of these mono blocks to drive 1 pair of these ambience ribbon speakers. 

 

The ambience speakers' sensitivity are around higher part of 80dB. A 30watts should usually suffice in the usual listening circumstances (of course it also matters what music materials are used and how loud you play)

 

The second point is: regardless of the capacity of the amps, regardless the power requirement of the speakers, it is always better to run bi-wiring from only 1 set of speaker output terminals at the amp. 

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I am using a pair of the same Denon Amps, I have had many mono blocks over the years including Krell, Pass Labs, Naim and Audio Research, the Denon's are the equal of any that I have tried.

 

They are 150 RMS into 8 Ohms, 300 RMS into 4 Ohms. As long as you are only connecting to one pair of outlets at a time you should be fine, unless you try running something like Apogee Scintillas.

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1 hour ago, jeromelang said:

The ambience speakers' sensitivity are around higher part of 80dB. A 30watts should usually suffice

Nothing to do with power. 

Current is the issue.

 

 

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the amp is certainly rated at 4 ohm. theyre grunty amps with some 270w max consumption which bodes well vs the 150wpc claim. I do believe ambience suggest some 100-150wpc for driving these speakers. though I believe they have shut up shop so no longer probably possible to ask them of suitability. not sure where got them from, but seeing in melbourne if bought from CAV who were resellers of ambience maybe worth talking to them about suitability. given the sheer number sold and supported over the years am sure be able to answer what should be a pretty simple question...

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11 minutes ago, betty boop said:

the amp is certainly rated at 4 ohm.

I looked and couldn’t find a rating. Do you have a link?

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Just now, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

I looked and couldn’t find a rating. Do you have a link?

service manual....

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54 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

I looked and couldn’t find a rating. Do you have a link?

I have the Operating Manuals, they state;

 

150 RMS into 8 Ohms,

300 RMS into 4 Ohms,

 

Frequency Response is 1 Hz to 150 kHz - +0 -3dB

 

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34 minutes ago, Ken said:

I have the Operating Manuals, they state;

 

150 RMS into 8 Ohms,

300 RMS into 4 Ohms,

 

Frequency Response is 1 Hz to 150 kHz - +0 -3dB

 

Very good. I was only taking issue with 4 ohm speakers because the opening poster had said they were specified as being only into 8-16 ohms. Nothing to see here; move along...

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On 23/06/2019 at 10:27 AM, jamm753 said:

Hi Wondering if I could get some advice.

 

There's a pair of Denon POA S10 mono amps for sale in classifieds.

 

Just have a question regarding the bi wiring these amps.

 

My speakers are Ambience 4 ohm which can be bi wired.

 

As the amps have A & B binding posts and it says bi wiring on the amps,  I assume you use both A & B to bi wire.

 

It also says on the amp A&B is 8 - 16 ohms.

 

Would it be  safe to use A&B wiring with 4 ohm speakers - or which way can this can be done?

 

As others have stated run your bi wires from ONE set of outputs, so just use output A.

 

If you have a set of bi wire cables that are ‘common’ at one end, that is each single positive and negative banana plug splits to two at the speaker end just plug them in and away you go. If you are using two seperate runs you will need one with a banana plug and one with a spade or bare wire so you can attach them both to the same post at the amplifier end. Do not run them from Speaker A and B outputs.

 

The Denon should on paper be a good match. They will drive the Efficiency and current requirements of the Ambience Speakers. If they carry Denons signature sound of that era and the S10 sound of the matching CD player you should expect a very full sound with a well developed bottom end. They may not pull the last levels of detail and speed the ribbons can produce but they have a forgiving and robust sound. That series were built like tanks and IMHO represent excellent value and the price being asked. Like all such combinations however the truth is only revealed when they are paired together.

 

Which series of ribbons do you own, 1400,  1600, 1800 standard or Reference? I would advice spending a lot of time trying varying distances from the rear and side walls of your listening room, the change in presentation of music presented by getting the interaction with the room correct with these speakers can be startling.

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0A52F9B4-304D-4D8D-8E63-863628CFA22F.thumb.jpeg.20069aa45620403009b4b9a748cacc3e.jpegLike this. Positive Spade screwed down on binding post and positive banana plugged in, same for the negative.

 

Before making a purchase decision download the owners manual and have a good read on the recommended bi wiring for a 4 Ohm load. It appears that in the way these particular amplifiers are constructed using both outputs for bi wiring is only for 8 to 16 Ohm loads, just use output A alone and you should have no problems.BB24C9A9-306C-4E24-BE52-390775E0368D.thumb.jpeg.56683b618ab1f61d349ffaedd0b029dd.jpeg0F8187C8-CA25-4004-920B-177E27F871DC.thumb.jpeg.b2d3f120def40563d76a1564d367a322.jpeg

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On 24/06/2019 at 5:45 AM, Ooogh said:

As others have stated run your bi wires from ONE set of outputs, so just use output A.

 

If you have a set of bi wire cables that are ‘common’ at one end, that is each single positive and negative banana plug splits to two at the speaker end just plug them in and away you go. If you are using two seperate runs you will need one with a banana plug and one with a spade or bare wire so you can attach them both to the same post at the amplifier end. Do not run them from Speaker A and B outputs.

Apologies for the thread resurrection! Hope the OP ended up with something that made them happy.

 

What's the rationale for only using one set of outputs from a monoblock when biwiring? Why is it better?

 

I'm exploring my biwiring cabling options for a pair of monoblocks and want to make sure I don't end up with cables that are terminated in a way that a couple of people here are saying won't make sense (e.g. four runs all terminated in bananas, or all terminated in spades).

 

Thanks so much for the help.

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