Barton Price Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I have bought my daughter a very basic vinyl system, a dual 505 I used to use, plus a pioneer amp and mordant short ms10 speakers I found 2nd hand for a couple of hundred dollars. My problem is I set it up next to my own system (thorens, sme, quad amps, magnepan speakers) and thought it was better in many respects!!! Arghhh!!! More coherent, or musical overall. I’m blaming my speakers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochawe Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 You think the MS10 actually outperform your Magneplanar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What Pioneer amp? I suspect the A400? That Dual is rim drive isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wen Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 it sounds like the synergy of that little system is spot on, many great review for the ms10 speakers, i run two systems next to each other, they each have their strengths, despite the dollar difference, floorstanders v small bookshelf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey72 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Don't worry. Sometimes I think my bedroom system (Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10, CD10, Rega P1 and Equinox Pluto's) sounds better than my lounge system (Plinius 9200, Plinius CD101, Pro-ject rpm5.1 and PMC's). Can't explain it. Maybe it's just different in a good way. It can be surprising what a budget entry level system can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Synergy is probably the right word, the little system has it. Mine certainly had strengths the other didn’t like a deeper, more solid bass, but overall, the small system made the same record more interesting and compelling. So now I have to find the miss-match in my system.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just swap systems with your daughter :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Are the MAggies in phase ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Rangi said: Synergy is probably the right word, the little system has it. Mine certainly had strengths the other didn’t like a deeper, more solid bass, but overall, the small system made the same record more interesting and compelling. So now I have to find the miss-match in my system.... I would suggest your Quad amps do not have the grunt to drive Maggies well. Try to borrow a Sanders Magtech amp, to see what I mean. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 11 hours ago, Muon N' said: What Pioneer amp? I suspect the A400? That Dual is rim drive isn't it? Belt drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 I’ve wondered that too. I’m sure they’re in phase - but I’ll triple check again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 It doesn't take a whole lot of money to make great sound, especially these days and a further fistful of cash can make incredible sound. I am guessing you didn't play your daughter's system too loud and you took a little extra interest in listening and the fresh sound of something different can make a difference that you took a little more interest and really listened. That's why I don't give too much of a hoot about amplifiers, cables and interconnects and the like, give me quality speakers everytime, big, small, horns, domes, sealed, reflex, ribbons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 The wee MS 10 speakers are nice sounding speakers which they achieve in part by not being particularly transparent. They were designed to be used with less than stellar ancillaries and still not offend. Your main system reaches for far better sound but the higher level of transparency will make it less tolerant of por recordings , system setup errors etc,etc. As Andy says most quad amps don't have the grunt to do justice to the Maggies so that would be one area to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 Here’s the full rig: Thorens td125 with sme 3009, shure v15 type iii and Jico sas stylus.That’s a very common setup and shouldn’t be a problem . The amps are quad elite pre and separate power- 70 watts into 8 ohms and about double into 4 ohms for the Smga’s. So I think all the components are good, and the miss match is probably between amp and speakers. The amp would be fine with a pair of boxes, and the speakers probably need more power. Anyone near double bay want to bring a big amp over one evening - There’s wine on offer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Macfarlane Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, allthumbs said: It doesn't take a whole lot of money to make great sound, especially these days and a further fistful of cash can make incredible sound. I am guessing you didn't play your daughter's system too loud and you took a little extra interest in listening and the fresh sound of something different can make a difference that you took a little more interest and really listened. That's why I don't give too much of a hoot about amplifiers, cables and interconnects and the like, give me quality speakers everytime, big, small, horns, domes, sealed, reflex, ribbons. Amps need to be able to drive the speakers properly otherwise you will never hear the speakers at their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, Ozcall said: Amps need to be able to drive the speakers properly otherwise you will never hear the speakers at their best. Agreed, I have made that point elsewhere, acknowledgement of impedance and power requirements, capably built devices and these days being serviceable notwithstanding my level of hootiness is still maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HypnoToad Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Maybe you have got used to the sound of your system and the other system sounds so different it peeks your interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 Could be - one simple thing I can do put the ms10’s onto my system - just to prove there’s nothing wrong with the amps or front end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Rangi said: Could be - one simple thing I can do put the ms10’s onto my system - just to prove there’s nothing wrong with the amps or front end Eerrhh, no! If it sounds good - all that will do is prove the Quad amps are able to drive the MS10s. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Aperalim said: You think the MS10 actually outperform your Magneplanar? That's not what he said. What I understood the OP to say was that his daughter's system sounded better than his system. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleasantSounds Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Another possible consideration is the speakers placement. Sometimes a couple of inches difference makes or breaks the imaging. Maybe the MS10 are in a "good" spot, while the Maggies' placement is less than optimal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 Ok - one positive thing. The ms 10s sound better in my system than in my daughters, so that’s a couple of grand not entirely wasted! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 I’m suspicious of room placement too. The Maggie’s are boomy - not at all what I expected. I’ve been shuffling them around the room , but always the same general area - so tomorrow I’ll switch it all to a different wall - with curtains behind and no flat wall in front - just to see if it makes a radical difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Price Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 I would suggest your Quad amps do not have the grunt to drive Maggies well. Try to borrow a Sanders Magtech amp, to see what I mean. Andy Hi Andy - do you know what audible impact a bigger amp will have? Tighter bass? More dynamic? And I checked out Sanders, $5k+ is a bit out of my range at this time- but there’s probably other options out there - for instance I almost bought a quad Qsp recently- more grunt and good with difficult loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Have you just got the Maggies? What model are they? Panels have a very different kind of sound to boxes. When I switched back to boxes from my Maggie1.7 I really enjoyed the extra dynamics and punch the boxes gave me. I suspect that’s what you’re hearing. But realistically, even half decent set up and amplified Maggies should be all over a pair of ms10s - even with inadequate amplification. How close are your Maggie’s to the wall ? They really need to be out a good distance - they need to breathe - certainly not closer than 70 cms. Edited June 21, 2019 by buddyev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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