Trend towards smaller speakers?

[TerryO]

4 hours ago, Cafad said:

I recall Greg Osborn removing a couple of smaller speakers from his line up back around 2011 or 2012 (his mini-tower for one).  His reasoning was that they just weren't selling as there was no call for smaller speakers for anything other than surrounds. 

Then several years later he brought out the Eos and they seem to be selling very well, so there is definitely some sort of trend happening here. 

I'm not sure if it has much to do with us audiophiles though, I suspect it has more to do with the hipster movement and the continuing resurgence of vinyl and craft beers.

Did someone mention BEER! ... 

 

 

[MattyW]

On 20/06/2019 at 10:34 PM, deanB said:

I've seen so many pics of floorstanders up against sidewalls due to inadequate space and irregular shaped rooms. That must be frustrating. Standmounts can generally be squeezed a bit closer together. Although my 24 litre 3 ways don't like to get any closer than about 1.9m, centre to centre.

 

Aye, both of my living rooms are like this. My main system has the right speaker in a corner and the left is open to a stairway descending downstairs, then the kitchen open on that same side. Facing glass sliding doors and a window on the right.  The opposite of ideal though I think it still sounds great.

 

On 21/06/2019 at 7:54 AM, Grizzly said:

I reckon, dollar for dollar, you'll get better overall sound quality with standmounts over floorstanders. That does depend on how much weight you give to bass response in your evaluation criteria.

Maybe,  though until the last few years I'd never had a system which reached below 40Hz. The Aurum Cantus F620's only go down to 35Hz and with the LTA MZ3 as a pre and darTZeel NHB-108B show off low detail in music I never even knew was there. I'll never go back from a small bookshelf.

 

That lead me to sourcing a pair of big Oatlon W2-1000F floor standers for my downstairs system which go down to 28Hz. These things are spectacular,  though only after a crossover rebuild. Has more explosive impact than my Wharfedale SW150 sub so contemplating retiring that and not bothering with a sub.

 

Funnily enough I'm building a pair of 18" U frame Open Baffles which I intend to replace the Aurum Cantus F620's if they live up to expectation. Shorter, wider and not as deep. The space I have isn't really that suitable however I'm keen to give them a try despite them reputedly only going down to 40Hz or so. I doubt I'll miss 5Hz. Though yeah, bigger than the Aurum Cantus which are themselves no bigger than bookshelves on stands.... 

 

The only way I can see bookshelves saving space is if sitting on an entertainment unit.  If on stands you may as well have floor standing speakers.... And if using a sub to fill in the bass that's more space than a decent pair of floor standing speakers. Completely bamboozles me hey..... Well,  not quite.  Big speakers do look stupid in a small room.... That's just aesthecs though.

Edited July 25, 2019 by MattyW

[Irek]

I would say one of the reason why people are buying bookshelf speakers is that there are very few high quality small floorstanders. As example PMC 25.23 has almost no competition on the market. 

[needlerunner]

2 hours ago, Irek said:

I would say one of the reason why people are buying bookshelf speakers is that there are very few high quality small floorstanders. As example PMC 25.23 has almost no competition on the market. 

Must listen to a pair one day.

Then perhaps not. I have a habit of buying things l like.

 

[Irek]

3 hours ago, needlerunner said:

Must listen to a pair one day.

Then perhaps not. I have a habit of buying things l like.

 

I am just saying that PMC made a very smart move with that particular model (25.23).  H 907mm , W 162mm , D 330mm .

[wen]

have listened to the PMC and then Golden ear trition 7 which i much prefered

[Midget]

7 pages of ideas and I am surprised no one has mentioned the obvious upgrade path advantage. If you had $2k to spend on speakers you would likely get a better bookshelf for the price than floorstanders. An example would be a KEFLS50 which everyone knows vs. the entry KEFQ550 floor-stander around the same price. The bookshelf might not get you the bass you want right now, but it would get you a finer quality sound. The key here is that when funds replenish, and the wife hasn't noticed a recent hifi spend in a while, you can add a good quality subwoofer to complete the sound with easier wife approval.

 

Finances and WAF always have to be factored into the equation!

[davewantsmoore]

On 20/06/2019 at 9:07 PM, blakey72 said:

Do you think it's a cost trend?

No, style and practicality .....

 

..... and the fact that it's becoming more possible/easier to build small speakers which still deliver large bass and good directivity helps this trend make it through to those with higher than average standards.

[TerryO]

On 29/08/2019 at 12:04 AM, davewantsmoore said:

No, style and practicality .....

 

..... and the fact that it's becoming more possible/easier to build small speakers which still deliver large bass and good directivity helps this trend make it through to those with higher than average standards.

Again while there may well be lots of good reasons why book shelf speakers should be more popular than floor standers where is the proof that this has taken place?

 

cheers Terry

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, TerryO said:

Again while there may well be lots of good reasons why book shelf speakers should be more popular than floor standers where is the proof that this has taken place?

I don't think is has amongst "audiophiles" .... they are prepared to accommodate whatever suits their preference or performance.

 

In the broader audio market though....  even "bookshelves" are massive.     Tea cup sized speakers and lightweight headphones are dominant ... because "style and practicality".    20 years ago, these products practically didn't even exist.

 

 

So... to the degree that it obviously depends on exactly where you look to see if it is happening or not ....   I don't think the reason (where it is happening) is cost ..... it is style/practicality .... and performance.

 

 

ie.  "is it because today you can make a compact speaker with high performance???" ....

 

The fact is "yes".   You can do this a lot better today, than you ever could.     Driver and amplifier technology, and the quality and accessibility of signal processing, has allowed it.

Edited August 30, 2019 by davewantsmoore

[needlerunner]

4 hours ago, TerryO said:

Again while there may well be lots of good reasons why book shelf speakers should be more popular than floor standers where is the proof that this has taken place?

 

cheers Terry

Maybe make it a question in the next census.

[zenkijin]

It's different sound for different people. Each has their own sensitivity.

Bookshelf speakers are pretty good nowadays but the main factor is probably space.

And TL does make a difference for small speakers afaik.

[Topman_Chief]

For me it was value and flexibility. I could buy standmount speakers one or even two series higher for the same price. As someone mentioned earlier, for the same money, the smaller speaker will always be higher quality. I also run a sub which relieves the amp of lower end duties, meaning you can buy a higher end but lower powered amp.

I’ve also read that floor standers can be very tricky to get positioning right for good bass. Standmounts with dsp controlled sub are pretty flexible and image fantastically.

I do acknowledge that big floorstanders move more air and provide a feeling of ‘authority’ to music. On balance though, I’m very happy with the path I took and will probably stay on it, although heading towards powered speakers and more digitally controlled goodness.

[needlerunner]

14 hours ago, Topman_Chief said:

For me it was value and flexibility. I could buy standmount speakers one or even two series higher for the same price. As someone mentioned earlier, for the same money, the smaller speaker will always be higher quality. I also run a sub which relieves the amp of lower end duties, meaning you can buy a higher end but lower powered amp.

I’ve also read that floor standers can be very tricky to get positioning right for good bass. Standmounts with dsp controlled sub are pretty flexible and image fantastically.

I do acknowledge that big floorstanders move more air and provide a feeling of ‘authority’ to music. On balance though, I’m very happy with the path I took and will probably stay on it, although heading towards powered speakers and more digitally controlled goodness.

Hi Top,

Can't remember if l said it before, this thread has been going for a while now. But it seems to me that there is equel passion for both formats. I have currently gone from monitors on stands to floorstanders, atmore than double the price. The FS are a better speaker, but that probably is more about the money, than the format. Chuck in room size as another component to the exercise, and it is perhaps an invalid argument. Let's call it a draw

 

I only went FS, just for a change, but could quiet easily gone with BS, such is the quality of speakers these days. As many people have alluded too, it probably is more about aesthetics and room size more than anything else these days.

 

And l think you are right BS appear to be cheaper, though with stands they do tend to push them nearer to FS prices.

 

Do your due diligence on room and component matching, get the best bang for your bucks and enjoy.

With either format you can't go wrong.

 

[Peter_F]

IME, big speakers = big sound.  Small speakers can sound nice, and of course may be better suited to a small room, but all the standout systems I've heard have very large speakers capable of moving a lot of air with huge amps to run them effortlessly.  It's the distinct lack of distortion that makes them stand out.  I find small speakers, like headphones, quite fatiguing.  

[almikel]

8 page thread, so I've only briefly scanned a few posts throughout...but there's likely a disparity between commercial speakers and DIY

 

On 09/09/2019 at 4:59 PM, Peter_F said:

IME, big speakers = big sound

One of the best speaker upgrades I've made are my DIY TD18" mid bass - the best mid bass slam I've ever heard - combined with a decent sub underneath (also large) makes for great bass in my room.

I run PSE144s above, which are large also.

 

The trend for smaller speakers is a fashion thing, not a sound quality thing - listening to 18" midbass at decent volume is visceral - you can't get it from an 8" and forget 6"

 

mike

 

[MattyW]

I believe space would be a factor however if using stands a bookshelf speaker doesn't really save space at all.

 

That said,  I've gone DIY and am now running the biggest speakers I ever have. A necessity as big drivers work well in open back/open baffle designs.

 

I find that they're less obtrusive in terms of sound than closed box speakers. It's more a big, room filling sound with extremely detailed bass rather than booming bass which will keep others in the family awake.  This is much better for me and will likely move to an apartment with me in 40 years when I downsize.

 

 

They're even bigger than my last speaker purchase: Klipsch KG5.5 copies,  the Oatlon W2-1000F speakers.

Edited September 21, 2019 by MattyW

[A9X]

On 09/09/2019 at 4:59 PM, Peter_F said:

IME, big speakers = big sound.  Small speakers can sound nice, and of course may be better suited to a small room, but all the standout systems I've heard have very large speakers capable of moving a lot of air with huge amps to run them effortlessly.  It's the distinct lack of distortion that makes them stand out. 

I agree.

On 09/09/2019 at 4:59 PM, Peter_F said:

I find small speakers, like headphones, quite fatiguing. 

Headphones don't bother me, but small speakers sound constipated to me.

 

On 15/09/2019 at 5:45 PM, almikel said:

The trend for smaller speakers is a fashion thing, not a sound quality thing - listening to 18" midbass at decent volume is visceral - you can't get it from an 8" and forget 6"

Agreed with all of your post.

On 21/09/2019 at 11:09 PM, MattyW said:

less obtrusive in terms of sound than closed box speakers. {snip} rather than booming bass

If you have closed box speakers and the sound is boomy, then you have a poor design and/or poor installation.

[Maui waui]

I’m looking to replace my shitty speakers with bookshelf spks because unfortunately can’t listen at that loud volume anymore and maybe new speakers are enough quality for me... any good speaker advice?I like jbl A130  are they good?

[Guest Muon N']

In this apartment/unit I can't imagine running big floor standers, the ML-1's can over load this space easy at higher volume levels. I only use 20% of the gain from my EL34 amp for ample levels.

[magical]

On 21/06/2019 at 3:28 PM, Snoopy8 said:

The purists will favour floor standers because of their ability to go down low.  For the rest of us, who have non-dedicated rooms and WAF considerations,  and also people living in apartments, smaller speakers are the only option.  It is a challenge to go down low with small passive standmounts (the Legend mentioned previously an exception!), but active standmounts can often do that e.g. Kii Three goes down to 20 Hz!   

 

Is there a change in ratio between people owning passive versus active speakers?  Probably no.  Is there a change in the ratio of purists to the rest on the forum?   Maybe with our recent newcomers and the trend for more people to  live in apartments ?  So maybe OP has a point?  

20hz from a stand mount, I doubt it. You'll find most $10000 floor standing spk don't get close. Ie sonus faber Cremona's,  38 hz -3db whick means really useable frequency of about 45hz.

More importantly the room is the biggest factor in bass responce for reasons to larhe to go into here. Pm me if you want more details. Suffice to say i own the original Legend Big Red prototype (Rod Crawford is a friend of mine) and even in a big listening room, from 9 meters (bass responce is a function of distance unless under unusual circumstances ie;  sealed room) gets to 37hz at high power. 

[5L15]

On 26/09/2019 at 9:56 AM, Maui waui said:

I’m looking to replace my shitty speakers with bookshelf spks because unfortunately can’t listen at that loud volume anymore and maybe new speakers are enough quality for me... any good speaker advice?I like jbl A130  are they good?

 

This review can get annoying at times and make sure your child or children aren’t in hearing range as he drops a few F bombs in the clip but he does show you what they are capable of.

I would recommend auditioning speakers as some designs sound great loud but so so at lower volumes.

[Snoopy8]

59 minutes ago, magical said:

20hz from a stand mount, I doubt it.

.....

More importantly the room is the biggest factor in bass responce for reasons to larhe to go into here. 

Agree that passive stand mounts do not go low.  But active stand mounts do, e.g. Kii Three

https://www.kiiaudio.com/electronics.php

Devialet Phantom Gold

https://www.devialet.com/en-au/buy-gold-phantom/

....

Fully agree room has by far the biggest influence.

[Guest Muon N']

I don't get 20Hz from my ML-1's but get all the bass I need, Gary Numans Savage is a bit too much in this area, and I have been avoiding playing it often due to considering the neighbours and my lease.

 

If you have the space for floorstanders, go for it, I don't.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Muon N'
The 'the' was not needed

[Guest Muon N']

1 hour ago, 5L15 said:

 

This review can get annoying at times and make sure your child or children aren’t in hearing range as he drops a few F bombs in the clip but he does show you what they are capable of.

I would recommend auditioning speakers as some designs sound great loud but so so at lower volumes.

He is beyond annoying