Centre speaker

[BIG DWIFTER]

Hello all,

 

Looking for some advice on upgrading my centre speaker.

 

My current very basic setup consists of -

 

Onkyo 676

Yamaha NS-50F(Not too bad for their duties)

Yamaha NS-C55(Needs upgrading badly)

Yamaha NS-E56(Fine for what they do)

YST-SW216(Getting upgraded to SVS PB2000)

 

It is used for movies and games pretty much exclusively.

 

I have another 2.1 setup for music duties.

 

I would like to get a centre speaker that is much more powerful and will last a while, maybe even seeing upgraded floorstanders in it's lifetime with me.

 

Not really sure where to start and am open to second hand gear of course.

 

Thank you for your time in advance.

[Snoopy8]

Ideally, the centre speaker should be same brand and series as left and right speakers.  But if you can timbre match (i.e. sound the same) the centre to the left and right speakers, it can work.   The cat @betty boop  has better experience than myself doing this.

 

By the way, what is budget?

[BIG DWIFTER]

Thanks for the reply Snoopy8.

 

Yes I realise the centre should be matching but that's not feasible with my lowly budget. I'll need to get one before I upgrade the FL+FR.

 

I'm looking at some Ascension/Adelaide speakers for the FL+FR when I have the funds.

 

Maybe I should just go speak to Edward.

 

Budget for the centre ~$1000.

[betty boop]

2 minutes ago, BIG DWIFTER said:

Budget for the centre ~$1000.

Be VERY surprised if as per snoopy you cannot fit a same brand and series centre as your mains

[BIG DWIFTER]

Hi betty boop and thanks for the response.

 

I do already have the matching series centre.

 

It's so quiet(underpowered), directional, muted and just nowhere near capable of keeping up with the rest of the system in any way. You have to sit directly in front of it for the voices to be loud enough. Adjusting levels on the receiver doesn't help.

 

The small drivers power handling just isn't up to it.

 

I do like the Yamaha sound but to get a decent Yamaha centre is very expensive.

 

As mentioned I won't be buying Yamaha speakers in the future for floorstanders.

 

SVS, PSA or Ascension most likely.

[Quark]

Have you tried bumping up the sound level for the centre speaker?

[BIG DWIFTER]

Yes I have, It seems to me it's the driver size.

 

It just can't do mid range voices well enough.

[Quark]

OK, just wanted to check.

 

To be honest, I suspect the real issue is the very basic room equalisation in your Onkyo AVR. 

 

Other factors that may be in play are:

1. Too many hard surfaces in the room causing a lot of "slap echo". This is very common in rooms with hard flooring. If you clap your hands do you get a ringing effect afterwards? A thick rug may help.
2. Seating against back wall - you get sound reflected off the back wall that is out of time with the direct sound. Try moving the seating a few feet off the wall.

[BIG DWIFTER]

The Onkyo seems to do just as good a job as the Yamaha I have in terms of room correction. Of course it could be better, it is a cheaper AVR. Atmos soundtracks are amazing though.

 

1. This is an issue where it is setup at the moment. The room is huge, it has hard surfaces and an angled roof which ruins the overhead Atmos.

 

It used to be setup in a smaller room with softwood floors, soft curtains and low roof.

The issue was there back then although not as bad.

 

2. Seating is not against a wall. It is ~3 metres from the back wall.

 

The subwoofer needs to be turned up close to maximum to get any real punch too, although that is being upgraded as we speak.

[betty boop]

42 minutes ago, BIG DWIFTER said:

Hi betty boop and thanks for the response.

 

I do already have the matching series centre.

 

It's so quiet(underpowered), directional, muted and just nowhere near capable of keeping up with the rest of the system in any way. You have to sit directly in front of it for the voices to be loud enough. Adjusting levels on the receiver doesn't help.

 

The small drivers power handling just isn't up to it.

 

I do like the Yamaha sound but to get a decent Yamaha centre is very expensive.

 

As mentioned I won't be buying Yamaha speakers in the future for floorstanders.

 

SVS, PSA or Ascension most likely.

Understand, while matching is good. A better centre is a better centre I agree

 

not withstanding benefit of setup and eq

 

how is it positioned setup?

[Snoopy8]

57 minutes ago, BIG DWIFTER said:

I'm looking at some Ascension/Adelaide speakers for the FL+FR when I have the funds.

 

Maybe I should just go speak to Edward.

 

Budget for the centre ~$1000.

Why not get an Adelaide centre speaker now?

[BIG DWIFTER]

4 minutes ago, betty boop said:

Understand, while matching is good. A better centre is a better centre I agree

 

not withstanding benefit of setup and eq

 

how is it positioned setup?

Admittedly, absolutely terribly.

 

It is in a giant lounge/living area with the worst acoustics for HT I've lived in so far.

 

I am moving house soon though, so the setup will change and I'll be looking at a proper long term setup.

 

The centre needs upgrading no matter what.

1 minute ago, Snoopy8 said:

Why not get an Adelaide centre speaker now?

I'd like to look at alternative options.

 

Second hand is enticing for the money too:)

[betty boop]

10 minutes ago, BIG DWIFTER said:

Admittedly, absolutely terribly.

With speakers it is always location location location

 

if poor anything after that is only just making best of bad situation

 

if moving wait till then I’d suggest

[BIG DWIFTER]

I'll most likely end up talking to Edward though.

 

Yeah ideally I'd wait till I move but I need to watch movies now haha

Edited June 17, 2019 by BIG DWIFTER

[Quark]

1 hour ago, BIG DWIFTER said:

The Onkyo seems to do just as good a job as the Yamaha I have in terms of room correction. Of course it could be better, it is a cheaper AVR. Atmos soundtracks are amazing though.

 

1. This is an issue where it is setup at the moment. The room is huge, it has hard surfaces and an angled roof which ruins the overhead Atmos.

 

It used to be setup in a smaller room with softwood floors, soft curtains and low roof.

The issue was there back then although not as bad.

 

2. Seating is not against a wall. It is ~3 metres from the back wall.

 

The subwoofer needs to be turned up close to maximum to get any real punch too, although that is being upgraded as we speak.

OK, one other option you may want to consider before upgrading, is a couple of door wedges under the centre to angle it up towards your ears - this can make a big difference.

 

If the new place has a HT room as large as your current one I suspect the SB2000 is still going to be struggling. I'd recommend spending a bit more on a PSA V1800, or an S1500 if the V1800 is too large for your tastes. PSA is run by one the original founders of SVS.

[BIG DWIFTER]

57 minutes ago, Quark said:

OK, one other option you may want to consider before upgrading, is a couple of door wedges under the centre to angle it up towards your ears - this can make a big difference.

 

If the new place has a HT room as large as your current one I suspect the SB2000 is still going to be struggling. I'd recommend spending a bit more on a PSA V1800, or an S1500 if the V1800 is too large for your tastes. PSA is run by one the original founders of SVS.

The centre is at ear level facing the couch already, it is just always underwhelming and seems it can never keep up with the rest of the system. Some movies the dialogue just gets completely lost. Others it is acceptable.

 

The subwoofer I have is a YST-SW216. It is getting upgraded to a PB2000.

 

I originally wanted the PSA 15" that was going for $1000AU @ DeepHz but it is a discontinued model and there isn't really what I want in my budget anymore so have settled on a PB2000 at a reasonable price.

Edited June 17, 2019 by BIG DWIFTER

[Snoopy8]

More expensive than the door wedges, but improves the sound with these stands

https://www.storedj.com.au/isoacoustics-iso-130-mk2-studio-monitor-isolation-stands-small-pair?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2uDYyeTv4gIVyxErCh2qGAb1EAQYAyABEgLKV_D_BwE

Can also be used to tilt the centre speaker towards the ears

[hopefullguy]

sorry to be blunt.. but are you silly? (see thats a nice way) you should not be buying anything until you have the room to put it in. you should not be buying a centre speaker until you know exactly what fronts you will have.

as for a huge room you need 2 subs, a better auto set up than that onkyo and an avr/amp system that can set up 2 subs. the onk can not.

the psa 210 range would be great (other forum members have them).. or actually go to see edward before deciding anything. the psa are basically HT speakers made for that task, krix have a similar range (also in adelaide)

put up with the yammy until you can decide on a full system, bought piece by piece and after moving to new room to save regret later

[BIG DWIFTER]

You say silly...I think more along the lines of not enough funds to do everything at once unfortunately.

 

There is no way I can afford more than the SVS PB2000. That's all my budget allows. I do not have this sub yet.

 

The Yamaha YST-SW216 sub I own, and am using right now, is about 70w RMS. The PB2000 is 500w RMS. Even an Accusound 12" was absolutely thunderous in comparison.

 

The new setup will be in a much smaller room. 4x4. The PB 2000 will be plenty for that.

 

I like the PSA 210s a lot. They are a bit out of my budget though.

 

The SVS Prime are more in my budget or something from Edward. I like his speakers a lot and have bought quite a few different models from him over the years.

Edited June 17, 2019 by BIG DWIFTER

[Guest jakeyb77]

I was amazed when I got my B&W centre speaker. Everything came alive. 

I wouldn’t say it has to match. Look for a good one to come up in the classifieds. 

I have an SVS PB2000 from @CustomHT in a similar room and it’s ridiculously good. The SPL is deafening at half volume. 

Go with what you like. It’s your room and your gear.

[BIG DWIFTER]

Yeah that's what I've been thinking. Anything will be a huge upgrade on this tiny little centre.

 

An SVS prime would be significant. 

 

Cheers mate. 

[hopefullguy]

silly refered to buying a centre speaker, the most important/equal to a sub in a ht room before "knowing" what the other speakers will be. so not meaning anything against you, just that idea per say.

 

anyways i would guess stick with what you know. the svs primes do not always get such good posts and are expensive vs edwards gear which can be modded very easy and reasonably priced to suit your needs. maybe consider 2 of his better book shelf for fronts with a large centre. (if for movies)

 

the svs sub does come up 2nd hand. i would not buy one at the current pricing ($1300), 2nd hand around $800 or the model before it usually comes up. the 12SND around $600.

 

but yes stick to your budget and get as they come up, thats why 2nd hand will work for the sub especially.

 

 

[BIG DWIFTER]

8 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

silly refered to buying a centre speaker, the most important/equal to a sub in a ht room before "knowing" what the other speakers will be. so not meaning anything against you, just that idea per say.

Yeah I absolutely get you, it's just that's the one that needs upgrading the most.

 

I have narrowed the fronts down to these -

Summoner 1093DQTL - Trio centre

Summoner 863SQTL - Trio centre

SVS Primes

 

Pretty sure I'll just go see Edward now. Unless there is some sort of second hand bargain to be found here!!!

[betty boop]

one risk with this approach is getting something now and not being suitable for what ever eventuates as far as room goes when things come about.

 

no thoughts on kris at all ? they are in back yard and make some awesome speakers in the ht realm. and can tackle HT without breaking a sweat. also make some awesome centres ? 

 

am all believer in building systems one building block at a time with an end goal in mind. but i think have to know the room most importantly. it is most important. and while can possibly make most things fit, there is a real possibility jumping the gun here.

 

as far as centre speaker goes. I did quite a bit in upgrading centres and have owned 2 others prior before one I have now. one thing I found really helps centre speakers is a vertically aligned tweeter mid range setup. and getting THE best centre speaker can afford.

 

It is THE most important speaker in a setup. and I would indeed get the best can afford here. the sub is 2nd most important in HT but that is really very much dependant on room going in I would suggest. fitting a centre in can also be quite installation dependant. hence coming back to whether jumping the gun...

 

on centres... I would also not discount whats driving.... AVRs can leave a good or great centre wanting. I have in my very own experience seen and heard with own ears the benefit good decent power brings to clarity of vocals and detail and dynamics and this with even budget centre i originally owned. so something I wouldnt ignore... and be careful on this that dont end up getting a great centre and then leaving it undernourished....

[BIG DWIFTER]

1 minute ago, betty boop said:

one risk with this approach is getting something now and not being suitable for what ever eventuates as far as room goes when things come about.

Yeah it's a worry but if it's really that bad I guess one could change it out.

 

2 minutes ago, betty boop said:

no thoughts on kris at all ?

They seem quite expensive what they are on paper. Haven't had the opportunity to hear them much although I'm in Adelaide!

 

3 minutes ago, betty boop said:

am all believer in building systems one building block at a time with an end goal in mind. but i think have to know the room most importantly. it is most important. and while can possibly make most things fit, there is a real possibility jumping the gun here.

Yeah I know, the room I'm in now is just terrible for any HT. The new 4x4 box should be more accommodating.

 

5 minutes ago, betty boop said:

as far as centre speaker goes. I did quite a bit in upgrading centres and have owned 2 others prior before one I have now

What do you have now?

 

6 minutes ago, betty boop said:

one thing I found really helps centre speakers is a vertically aligned tweeter mid range setup.

I like the look this setup - https://klappav.com.au/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv-c2-centre-loudspeaker-black

 

6 minutes ago, betty boop said:

and getting THE best centre speaker can afford.

Maybe I just go for the SVS Ultra while it's on sale. Never heard it though.

 

7 minutes ago, betty boop said:

 

on centres... I would also not discount whats driving.... AVRs can leave a good or great centre wanting. I have in my very own experience seen and heard with own ears the benefit good decent power brings to clarity of vocals and detail and dynamics and this with even budget centre i originally owned. so something I wouldnt ignore... and be careful on this that dont end up getting a great centre and then leaving it undernourished....

This centre has seen two AVRs, it has performed exactly the same on both.

 

The AVRs have been fairly low end though. I really want another one when the new standards are a bit cheaper for 4K HDR 120hz etc.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm definitely still poking around in low end stuff and have nowhere near the knowledge you guys have.