Buying a UPS

[muriwai]

Not really sure best place to ask so mods feel free to move

I want to install a security camera setup at my house and looking to purchase a UPS to plug the recorder into them it occurred to me he good also to have the JVC projector plugged in as well if power goes out keeps the fan running long enough to do a proper power down

Any recommendations or ones to stay away from?

only looked at one so far from Jaycar around the $350 mark 

happy to pay $500 max 

thanks in advance for any and all advise 

cheers Muri

[soundbyte]

I kept an eye out for a secondhand APC UPS on eBay, you might find them on Gumtree as well?

The one I finally got was a 3000VA pure sine wave model, really total overkill, but for about $200, it was a bargain.

Nice to have when the power does go out, just as you say to make sure everything is shutdown properly.

Some / most APC UPS versions have a USB output that can be connected to a computer to monitor the UPS, that can be setup to trigger shutdowns of computers and other equipment if that equipment is capable of remote shutdown, this facility is built in to Windows.

My UPS sends emails as well if needed, it is ethernet connected, not USB connected.

 

You would need to get one that will run all the equipment that you require, add 25% of the equipment power requirements needed and buy a UPS that is above that value.

example, Projector 300W(?), CCTV system 300W = 600W + 25 % = 750W would be suitable.

See https://www.apc.com/shop/au/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-750VA-LCD-230V/P-SMT750I

This this one is above your budget, but this is the sort of thing to look out for.

The APC UPS can also be monitored from a PC using the proprietary software from APC, "Powerchute", this works on my ethernet based system as well.

 

There are quite a number of other makes out there, I have just had good results with the APC types.

 

The Jaycar https://www.jaycar.com.au/1500va-900w-230vac-lcd-line-interactive-ups-with-usb/p/MP5207 looks OK but is a modified sine wave, it may cause problems with some equipment.

Software for monitoring etc is available but not for MAC, but may work with Wine?

 

 

[F18]

I would avoid second hand UPS’ unless it has been used very briefly as the batteries deteriorate over time and could blow, leak or not charge anymore. Usually after 3 years of 24/7 usage.

 

Cyberpower and Eaton offer some of the best for money ups solutions in the market. Don’t bother with Jaycar units.

Edited June 11, 2019 by F18

[DavoTheGreat]

2nd hand UPS's are fine provided they're still cheap once you factor in the cost of replacing the batteries upfront. UPS batteries are only servicable for 3-4 years anyway so it's not unreasonable to expect to replace batteries over time. Since the OP was talking about security equipment, it's the same story with the batteries in alarm systems - they also need to be replaced every few years.

 

I've had a few Eaton UPSs over time and all of them (that's 4 UPSs in 2 locations) had horrible runtime if they were connected to a PC or a NAS. Run them without the USB connection and I used to get triple the runtime. Eaton replaced all of the units under warranty but it made no difference, it's their software that's the problem. I've since moved over to APC and have no such issues.

[Silent Screamer]

Don't get locked into the idea of replacing the batteries with more UPS batteries they  can be expensive. If you don't mind car sized batteries kicking around you can make the batteries external.

[muriwai]

Thank you gentlemen I will look into the APC a bit further 

I think security cameras @300 W and projector at 380W

i will look at a 900w unit

cheers and thanks for all good advise

[F18]

16 hours ago, DavoTheGreat said:

2nd hand UPS's are fine provided they're still cheap once you factor in the cost of replacing the batteries upfront. UPS batteries are only servicable for 3-4 years anyway so it's not unreasonable to expect to replace batteries over time. Since the OP was talking about security equipment, it's the same story with the batteries in alarm systems - they also need to be replaced every few years.

 

I've had a few Eaton UPSs over time and all of them (that's 4 UPSs in 2 locations) had horrible runtime if they were connected to a PC or a NAS. Run them without the USB connection and I used to get triple the runtime. Eaton replaced all of the units under warranty but it made no difference, it's their software that's the problem. I've since moved over to APC and have no such issues.

 

Ups batteries aren't exactly cheap $35-55 per battery and most smaller ups have 1 or 2 batteries. What if you purchase a cheap used ups that has other unknowing faults? A new 900va 540watt ups is around $150-170 brand new with warranty. Alarms use the same 12v battery but they last up to 10 years without a problem (speaking from experience as I used to be in the industry for consumer, enterprise and surveillance ups and battery supplies). 

[bazzle]

Ive purchsed 3 secondhand UPS's over the last 10 years. Only one needed batts, cheap enough to be cost effective from local ebay suppliers.

All 3 are still going, 3 brands to, Eaton, APC and Power shield.

Used for security system, 2 tv's and associated hifi equip. Allows you to power down safely if needed.

One tv is on an 1000va APC and will run the Samsung lcd for 30 minutes or more.

[Darren69]

These guys are great to deal with- https://www.mwave.com.au/

 

Will give you advice etc.

[F18]

1 hour ago, Darren69 said:

These guys are great to deal with- https://www.mwave.com.au/

 

Will give you advice etc.

 

Them and almost any other computer parts retailer of the following below:

 

PC Case Gear

PLE 

Alliance Computers

Scorptec

MSY

Centercom

 

The 4 are my preference. Mwave is up in QLD so stock ship from there. 

[muriwai]

Thank you gentlemen I will look into the APC a bit further 

I think security cameras @300 W and projector at 380W

i will look at a 900w unit

I'm  outer east Melbourne Berwick way any preferred dealers out this way ?looks like I will buy new and bit over budget but all good ,happy to stick with APC

 

cheers and thanks for all good advise

Muri

[Syrot]

You can now get decent on-line UPS for $400-500 with a 1000VA rating ( Aprrox 800w).  These are the best type to have as they will clean and filer out all the crap off the mains as well as hold your devices on to allow for a suitable shut down time.  In-Line UPS work by converting the AC to DC then back to AC.  Particularly good for high end electronics such as your projector, high end stereo gear or computer systems.

 

AVOID second hand UPS.  Unless you know the history of the unit,  issues such are previous surge suppression,  batteries going dead short or being shagged is a costly exercise to replace.  Also you have no idea what power surges or spikes they may have been exposed to rending some the internal electronics suspect.

[Assisi]

8 hours ago, Darren69 said:

These guys are great to deal with- https://www.mwave.com.au/

 

Will give you advice etc.

They maybe okay with the advice to sell product.  They are not good with warranty and their poor understanding of Australian consumer law.

 

John

[F18]

4 minutes ago, Assisi said:

They maybe okay with the advice to sell product.  They are not good with warranty and their poor understanding of Australian consumer law.

 

John

Do you have any proof?

[Assisi]

55 minutes ago, F18 said:

Do you have any proof?

Oh yes!

Product straight out of the box didn't work.  I was told that Mwave was not responsible and that I would have to send it back to the the agent at my expense for repair.  That was when I learnt a bit more about the law and my rights.

 

It is probable that Mwave is not unique.  Buying online has its problems.  Just be careful and know your rights and do not be bluffed.  If somebody tried what Mwave did to me now, I would very carefully explain my rights and if I didn't get due consideration then things would get exciting for all concerned.

John

 

 

[Darren69]

1 hour ago, Assisi said:

They maybe okay with the advice to sell product.  They are not good with warranty and their poor understanding of Australian consumer law.

 

John

OK, I haven't had any problems with them, as in, we have never been in an acid test.

 

I guess things are all Ok until they aren't.

[Assisi]

Just now, Assisi said:

Oh yes!

Product straight out of the box didn't work.  I was told that Mwave was not responsible and that I would have to send it back to the the agent at my expense for repair.  That was when I learnt a bit more about the law and my rights.

 

It is probable that Mwave is not unique.  Buying online has its problems.  Just be careful and know your rights and do not be bluffed.  If somebody tried what Mwave did to me now, I would very carefully explain my rights and if I didn't get due consideration then things would get exciting for all concerned.

John

 

 

 

[Assisi]

18 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

OK, I haven't had any problems with them, as in, we have never been in an acid test.

 

I guess things are all Ok until they aren't.

Exactly. 

Back to UPS info

[Lloyd]

On the basis of this fruitful discussion (it sorted out some nagging questions), I *might* pick meself up a pure sine wave CyberPower 675w/700VA bit of kit for about $400.  Need some cords as outlets are IEC which is a bit awkward.

If for nothing else, in the event of pesky blackouts which are becoming more problematic in our first world country, to be able to shut down without power coming back on again a minute or so later - those with valve amps may appreciate the import of that - and ya get all the bells and whistles thrown in.

 

Edit - I see some much cheaper, but not pure, which is probably OK for most things outside of the man cave.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Lloyd

[Guest rmpfyf]

Bit o FUD here.

 

2nd hand is fine particularly if with reconditioned batteries.

 

Dont expect stellar mains quality unless you’re doing for a double conversion unit, most of these are large power and are not line interactive (eg they don’t just kick on when you need them, they are instead always on - and loud).

 

You will want Ethernet management if using for a security application. Smart crims will often visit your house one night, flip the mains breaker or pop your mains fuses, wait for any UPS to drain and come back a day later. You want an email or notification that tells you mains is out, particularly if for security. APC makes a nice system here, the cards are expensive online from distributors but around $200 ea on eBay. Budget that. It’ll also help you manage when your batteries need changing, selfntesting etc the lot to maximise your investment.

 

APC does the smart UPS range - pretty good - and the smart X range, which is battery expandable if you want more duration. They start at 750VA so bank on 500W. These are $650-$700ea new and if you can get something like this second hand with new batteries that are guaranteed, do it. There is nothing special about the batteries unless lithium ion, which are way out of budget.

 

Would recommend not using the same UPS for security and for your hifi. You don’t need management for your Hifi and any s/h UPS with good power will do.

[Guest rmpfyf]

Lastly, if you’ve a friendly sparky and want to do it right - get a caravan plug for every UPS you run and reticulate the output to GPOs marked with a separate colour to designate backup power (usually we use red).

 

Give the UPSs a dedicated breaker on your mains (if indoor, on a secured sub board otherwise) and have the snarky mark it the UPS as a separate mains supply source. Eliminates the possibility that something else going pop leads to a flat UPS.

 

Food for thought if doing it proper

[muriwai]

rmpfyf thank you for your detailed reply

Ok I'm happy to buy 2 seperate UPS on this advise ,a cheap unit for the projector and a better unit for the NVR(security  cameras recorder )

This morning I went to CPL in Nottinghill to buy and spoke to a chap told him what I needed etc and as soon as I said they would be up in my ceiling space (Attic) he said no way that they should be up there 

they will overheat and catch fire ,basically said any temp over 40 degrees and they become a fire hazard !!

long story short I left the shop empty handed and disallusioned!!I 

ok what is my next step the main lead for projector already runs into the ceiling cavity(controlled from a master switch in the theatre)

and I have run all my cat 6 cables for cameras into the ceiling space and terminated the ends not far from the manhole entrance!

the plan was to have the recorder setup not far from the manhole 

HELP!!?

is what the salesman told me correct?admittedly on a hot day it is bloody hot up in there so I'm now wondering have I thought all this through properly ?

Also more questions 

1)does the APC X series have the Ethernet plug ?how does it send me an email if I don't have a home computer?

What are the $200 eBay cards?

is the APC X series line interactive ?(not on all the time?)

happy to increase my budget to do it right 

In need of more feedback and advise please 

cheers Muri