Guest deanB Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, n0bleINtP said: visual dissonance might need to keep them far away from each other Good on you David, the fact that the Supratek was over here for a tune up by the builder, reasonably priced and something a bit different/special makes it a no brainer. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givita_burl Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 They're both black. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Has the Supratek arrived? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, kelossus said: Has the Supratek arrived? No, not yet. Was hoping to pay it a visit over the weekend - will see how that goes. A trip to Margaret River is not a chore. Fine wines, fine food etc. Otherwise it will be heading up to Perth, hopefully next week. Impatience is killing me ... ( we all know that feeling ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 12/06/2019 at 10:09 PM, kelossus said: Let me know how it goes. Looking for a preamp for my FPB also. Yes also curious to know what the result is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 On 10/06/2019 at 1:47 AM, n0bleINtP said: I was barely out of my teens when CD entered the world. Was prejudiced from then on. With the crap consumer gear of that time CD sounded so obviously better. Got so many many clues, ie. absolutely loved hearing vinyl when I didn't know it was playing. So easy to dismiss vinyl - the sound was inaccurate, colored. Accurate reproduction (rather than music) was always the ultimate goal. Older and wiser I can see how silly that was: The point is to enjoy? Why punish yourself with what you like less? The vinyl revival is a delightful counter revolution to have observed. I really need to join in Lastly your suggestion on Vincent SA-T8 was timely. Earlier today I might have actually found a brand new one gathering dust as NOS somewhere. That would be a leap into the unknown - but with your recommendation - buying unseen and unheard doesn't feel quite so insane Hi David, if you did find one, could you forward that information to me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 They be married ! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What a beautiful couple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, n0bleINtP said: They be married ! The bold and the beautiful were the first words that came to mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ittaku said: The bold and the beautiful were the first words that came to mind. excellent Thank you for your help choosing this. There is no actual way to describe the contribution of a preamp like this one. I was expecting "tube sound" to be "soft". This is is effortlessly clear and transparent. Razor sharp dynamics. Assume there is some added distortion that masks the Krell's own distortion with one having better harmonics. This does not interfere with the detail at all, but makes accoustic instruments (including voice) dramatically "live" and present. Saxophone is gloriously there. Really quite special. A super clean solid state preamp would have given me none of this. Thank you all Edited June 20, 2019 by n0bleINtP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Now that the honey moon is over do you have any follow up thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 49 minutes ago, kelossus said: Now that the honey moon is over do you have any follow up thoughts? Still absolutely astonished and delighted with how the combo "sings". The comparison I make here is DAC direct to poweramp versus having the tube pre between them. Clearly the result should be better and more accurate with an unnecessary stage removed. However it is night and day with the preamp in place. The acoustic leaning in my music, ie. jazz and its chillout, downtempo variants is particularly well served. Piano, vocals, brass instruments, stringed bass, bass guitar are so especially startling, so realistic and present. Due to overtones? Harmonic structure? Female vocals with spitty hard consonants and sibilence are now zippy, smooth and delightful. I can turn up Norah Jones to much higher levels, no strain, stress, shoutyness, congestion. And enjoy it at those high levels - it is smooth, and sounds like a voice. Like nothing I have experienced before. These views probably need to be tempered with my lack of experience of better. Preamp was always a neglected component in my systems. I always figured that without the phono, a preamp has virtually nothing to do, cleanly buffering a line level signal into a high impedance load should be an engineering triviality. I would need to compare to a really good tube linestage from Audio Research (say a Ref 5 or similar) before I might claim that the Supratek is something special in this class. But for the music I listen to, having a tube linestage in the system has been a huge win. I will always want something similar. I will check back from time to time to listen to the Krell doing its clean, precise, dry, sterile thing ... ie. check that I am not kidding myself about preferring the "euphonic" and more musical sound. I believe I am now hooked on tubes. They are magic indeed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, n0bleINtP said: I would need to compare to a really good tube linestage from Audio Research (say a Ref 5 or similar) before I might claim that the Supratek is something special in this class. I auditioned the Ref6 in my system and bought the Supratek Cabernet Dual instead. I have not auditioned the Ref10, and do not feel obliged to... Edited June 27, 2019 by Ittaku 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Ittaku said: I auditioned the Ref6 in my system and bought the Supratek Cabernet Dual instead. I have not auditioned the Ref10, and do not feel obliged to... very good to know I am just amazed. It is not just "lounge" music that lifts it's game. Better recorded rock and roll comes to life. Bass guitar with perfect musical texture, warmth and crunch. Snare drums with slam and sizzle. Feels like a small live venue where the band has good instrument amplifiers rather than mixing it into some average PA bins. Sounds "live", sounds magic. Poorly mixed modern pop sounds as bad as it ever did though. Designed for ear-buds and commercial radio in the car? I am spending a lot more time with my better recordings now. Edited June 27, 2019 by n0bleINtP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 To be fair, the Ref6 did things the cabernet did not, such as a deeper and more expansive sound stage, and gave more authority to the overall presentation, but it added a veiled quality to the sound which to me was a showstopper, whilst the cabernet kept me front and centre without adding any veiling which I value far more than a bigger soundstage. I hazard a guess that the Ref10 manages to do both what the cabernet and the ref6 do well, but at $50k for a line level preamp, I couldn't justify it. Looking at the internals of the Ref6, you'll be surprised to see that a $22k line level preamp is not a true dual mono configuration all the way back to its power supply, unlike the cabernet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 hours ago, n0bleINtP said: Still absolutely astonished and delighted with how the combo "sings". The comparison I make here is DAC direct to poweramp versus having the tube pre between them. Clearly the result should be better and more accurate with an unnecessary stage removed. However it is night and day with the preamp in place. The acoustic leaning in my music, ie. jazz and its chillout, downtempo variants is particularly well served. Piano, vocals, brass instruments, stringed bass, bass guitar are so especially startling, so realistic and present. Due to overtones? Harmonic structure? Female vocals with spitty hard consonants and sibilence are now zippy, smooth and delightful. I can turn up Norah Jones to much higher levels, no strain, stress, shoutyness, congestion. And enjoy it at those high levels - it is smooth, and sounds like a voice. Like nothing I have experienced before. These views probably need to be tempered with my lack of experience of better. Preamp was always a neglected component in my systems. I always figured that without the phono, a preamp has virtually nothing to do, cleanly buffering a line level signal into a high impedance load should be an engineering triviality. I would need to compare to a really good tube linestage from Audio Research (say a Ref 5 or similar) before I might claim that the Supratek is something special in this class. But for the music I listen to, having a tube linestage in the system has been a huge win. I will always want something similar. I will check back from time to time to listen to the Krell doing its clean, precise, dry, sterile thing ... ie. check that I am not kidding myself about preferring the "euphonic" and more musical sound. I believe I am now hooked on tubes. They are magic indeed. Great to hear. Every person I have got to put a Good Quality Pre. in their System have reported similar results, i.e. a massive step up in musical experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Ittaku said: To be fair, the Ref6 did things the cabernet did not, such as a deeper and more expansive sound stage, and gave more authority to the overall presentation, but it added a veiled quality to the sound which to me was a showstopper, whilst the cabernet kept me front and centre without adding any veiling which I value far more than a bigger soundstage. I hazard a guess that the Ref10 manages to do both what the cabernet and the ref6 do well, but at $50k for a line level preamp, I couldn't justify it. Looking at the internals of the Ref6, you'll be surprised to see that a $22k line level preamp is not a true dual mono configuration all the way back to its power supply, unlike the cabernet. Interesting point regarding the ARC pre's. I had to go all the way back to the REF2 to find a dual mono design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Quote Suggestions for a Preamplifier to match a Krell FPB @n0bleINtP This Krell FPB-600 has 100kohm input impedance, so loading wise anything can drive it depending on your "preamp colouration taste", and how much your source can put out, even passives or high output impedance tube preamps, BUT!! it's input sensitivity is only 3.5 volts, so this needs to be taken into consideration. Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kranky Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Here's another preamp to consider. Tempo Electric. Universal EQ Mono Preamplifier. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, georgehifi said: @n0bleINtP This Krell FPB-600 has 100kohm input impedance, so loading wise anything can drive it depending on your "preamp colouration taste", and how much your source can put out, even passives or high output impedance tube preamps, BUT!! it's input sensitivity is only 3.5 volts, so this needs to be taken into consideration. Cheers George Does this mean you need a preamp with high or low gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0bleINtP Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 37 minutes ago, kelossus said: Does this mean you need a preamp with high or low gain? Seems to work out all right. Moderate loud listening works out to be about "12 o'clock". Really hammering it goes a bit further. So - plenty of range on the volume control. Problems occur with over sensitive power amplifiers - full level can be less than 1V for many amps today. ie: throttle the preamp - less life in the music / more background noise (so I've heard). The newer designs have an adjustable gain output to help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, kelossus said: Does this mean you need a preamp with high or low gain? This as I said depends on what your source can give out, some dacs can give 6v!!, in this case you'd be mad to go an active pre, a passive will do totally, especially with 100kohm input impedance. Chers George Edited June 27, 2019 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted June 28, 2019 Volunteer Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, georgehifi said: @n0bleINtP This Krell FPB-600 has 100kohm input impedance, so loading wise anything can drive it depending on your "preamp colouration taste", and how much your source can put out, even passives or high output impedance tube preamps, BUT!! it's input sensitivity is only 3.5 volts, so this needs to be taken into consideration. Cheers George 2 hours ago, kranky said: Here's another preamp to consider. Tempo Electric. Universal EQ Mono Preamplifier. Steve. Umm I think the OP has already bought a preamp.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfranic Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 I know I'm late to this thread but I too have an FPB600 and FPB600CX. Preamp pair ups have included the Krell KRC-HR and the Evo 222, ARC LS27 and the BHK-Pre, all with excellent results. Providing you are not due for a recap on your Krell gear you will be in a happy place with all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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