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Tennis Discussion - WIMBLEDON

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@Nigel Novak's game is built around defence and athleticism. He is the best defender in the business, no doubt about it, but it's boring to watch IMHO. I'd rather see Roger go down swinging than playing %'s like Novak does, it's like somebody has done a "moneyball" type of study on tennis for him and taught him to be effective rather than pretty. Roger has always made bad errors, it's the flawed genius at work, but what a joy to watch. I don't know who I'd follow once he hangs up the racquet. I may just give up on tennis till another wonder boy comes along... or Kyrious grows up.

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I haven't seen the final this year due to being ill, however the fact (if true) of Novak being "robotic" and Federer playing "with panache" is fascinating. I specifically disliked FedEx during his domination of a decade and then some - specifically because of being like a robot and playing with no expression whatsoever (panache was not even on the horison). There's no denying Roger is inexorably marching toward the end of his career, and perhaps his age is one of the factors that has precipitated a panached performance. Novak isn't far behind age wise, and this will catch up to him soon down the track, however is still younger nonetheless. Perhaps he's adopting some of Rogers past tactics. Also I remember Djole struggling with stamina and fatigue often 5-10 years ago when his playing style was more of a "take no prisoners" approach, so this may be a part reason too. Also it may be an effect of Ivanisevic joining Novak's coaching team just weeks ago (permanently or not - dunno).

 

Not saying Novak is next Federer - he's not there yet and IMO unlikely to get there, as the landscape at the top of ATP rankings is quite a bit different to 15 years ago. Who knows - I may be wrong about the effect of Rogers age too, maybe it's just the after effect of the duel with Raffa in semis, however wouldn't have stopped him 10 years ago.

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43 minutes ago, blybo said:

I may just give up on tennis till another wonder boy comes along... or Kyrious grows up. 

Whatever happened to that Cypriot youngster (tall as you like - cannot remember the name, had a hugely successful run in Aus Open this year)? I like the German/Russian Alexander "Sascha" Zverev and also that Viennese guy Dominic Thiem. Both have some got some game. I'm sure there's at least another 1/2 dozen others that promise (personally really love watching both Tsonga and Monfils, but I feel their prime is in the past). I agree bad boy Kyrgious could/would/should be awesome if he smartened up/grew up and really got serious - alas cannot see it happening this century (wish I was wrong).

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I honestly don't get all the negative attitudes toward Novak, maybe it's his Eastern Slavic heritage?

 

Wife and I couldn't really pick a fave, both he and Roger exemplify everything good in tennis. 

Brilliant repertoire of shots, supreme athletes, impeccable behavior,  and not full of themselves like some!

 

One of the best matches you'll ever see,  gonna be a hole when the trio retire!

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22 minutes ago, evil c said:

I honestly don't get all the negative attitudes toward Novak, maybe it's his Eastern Slavic heritage?

Got nothing to do with heritage for me. It's game style. There is a grace and creativity to Federer's his shot making that we have never seen before. It almost appears that Novak was taught to play smart efficient tennis, Roger was simply BORN to play. He is the GOAT, Novak may end up with a better record but will never be Rogers equal IMHO. Perhaps this view comes from my playing comp for over 20 years.

 

Tennis should be a game of skill. Rafa and Novak have turned it into a power and athleticism game which I no longer connect with.

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Posted (edited)

@blybo aaawww - don't call the man a goat, not dignified...

 

😎

 

For my money no one will play better/more composed/creative tennis than Patrick Rafter. It's a highly personal/subjective opinion but what else is there. I think the near obsession with GOAT-ness in tennis is unhealthy for the game and our world views. "The record" records and goats are what's turning sports people into machines (Marion Jones, Pantani, Armstrong, Carl Louis, Ben Johnson, David Warner, Steve Smith and all the doped up footballers, tennis and other stars that of course do not use/abuse substances or cheat otherwise until it is reveled later that they have....tut tut naughty them...)

 

1 hour ago, blybo said:

power and athleticism game which I no longer connect with. 

fully agree, power plays too much a part - hence I often find myself enjoying the ladies tennis more than the mens. Can easily do without the tennis of Verdascos, Musters, Krajiceks of the world.

 

 

Edited by zippi
an incomplete post posted somehow initially

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, zippi said:

Whatever happened to that Cypriot youngster (tall as you like - cannot remember the name, had a hugely successful run in Aus Open this year)? I like the German/Russian Alexander "Sascha" Zverev and also that Viennese guy Dominic Thiem. Both have some got some game. I'm sure there's at least another 1/2 dozen others that promise (personally really love watching both Tsonga and Monfils, but I feel their prime is in the past). I agree bad boy Kyrgious could/would/should be awesome if he smartened up/grew up and really got serious - alas cannot see it happening this century (wish I was wrong).

 

I presume you mean Tsitsipas who was seeded 7 and lost first round to Italian Fabbiano. Zverev and Thiem didn't fare any better than Stephanos and both lost in the first round too. Zverev was seeded 5 and lost to the Czech Vesely and Thiem who was seeded 5 lost to Querrey from the US.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

I presume you mean Tsitsipas who was seeded 7 and lost first round to Italian Fabbiano

Yes - thanks you, Tsitsipas is the name. I am pretty sure he went further than the 1st round (wasn't he in the semis this year?? Still remember McEnroe's hilarious pronunciation TseeeeTseeePas). And he's very young. You have to know how to loose matches - how to handle it. Winning is easy in comparison.

 

I start wondering -  was there ever a time when Raffa, Nole, Fed lost in the first round of a major?

Answer: of course there was, and it's coming for all of them yet....

 

 

Edited by zippi

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, zippi said:

@blybo aaawww - don't call the man a goat, not dignified...

 

😎

 

For my money no one will play better/more composed/ creative tennis than  Patrick Rafter. I think the near obsession with GOAT-ness in tennis is unhealthy for the game and our world views.

 

fully agree, power plays too much a part - hence I often find myself enjoying the ladies tennis more than the mens. Can easily do without the tennis of Verdascos, Musters, Krajiceks of the world.

 

 

 

I agree that Pat Rafter was a bloody great tennis player, you don't get to No 1 in the world if you're not! Reading some comments here that people are finding Rafa and Novak mechanical and boring, but when you look at Rafter's game, he built it entirely on being able to serve and volley, first and second ball and doing it frankly better than any other player on the planet. The thing is though, that many tennis fans back when he was playing would say that his style of tennis was boring, they didn't see long rallies anymore and there was a concerted effort by the boffins that run the game, to try and slow the game down, to have more baseline rallies and deter the serve and volley players.

I think they've gone too far in that direction though, but the racquet and string technology these days is so much better then it was even ten years ago. I've been watching my nephew compete over the last week or so in the NSW Country Champs in Forster in both the senior event and the juniors. It is amazing the amount of pace they can hit the ball with now, still maintain control and get the ball up and down and keep it in................this is all down to the racquet technology and probably even more so, the strings.

 

24 minutes ago, zippi said:

Yes - thanks you, Tsitsipas is the name. I am pretty sure he went further than the 1st round (wasn't he in the semis this year?? Still remember McEnroe's hilarious pronunciation TseeeeTseeePas). And he's very young. You have to know how to loose matches - how to handle it. Winning is easy in comparison.

No, Tsitsipas defintiely lost first round, have a look here. Yeah, I thought McEnroe's pronunciation was pretty funny and he continued with it despite the other commentators pronouncing it correctly.

1 hour ago, zippi said:

 

 

Edited by cheekyboy

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4 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

No, Tsitsipas defintiely lost first round, have a look here. Yeah, I thought McEnroe's pronunciation was pretty funny and he continued with it despite the other commentators pronouncing it correctly. 

We're both right -  I was on about Aus Open , of course he lost in Wimbledon in the 1st round as per your point.

 

:thumb:

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Re the most Opens for the GOAT title which Novak is hoping to achieve (and why not), these next 2 years are important for him to stay injury free and watching him looks like torn ankle tendons waiting to happen. In 2 or 3 years, the young guns will rise to the top level.

Did someone suggest Rafa was boring/robotic ? Huh? he is a 1/lifetime player, no-one does what he does and most of the best players in the world cannot cope.

Also the fact that Novak makes tennis look easy or boring, is deceptive of how good he really is. Ball comes out of the centre nearly 100%. Roger mishit tons yesterday, amazing so many went in.

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28 minutes ago, zippi said:

We're both right -  I was on about Aus Open , of course he lost in Wimbledon in the 1st round as per your point.

 

:thumb:

No worries zippi, I thought you were talking about Wimbledon. Stephanos did really well at the Australian this year and he is a very thoughtful and generous bloke too...............he'll be good for the game.

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31 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Did someone suggest Rafa was boring/robotic ? Huh? he is a 1/lifetime player, no-one does what he does and most of the best players in the world cannot cope.

I think I was taken out of context. I said I find his style is purely about power and ability to run down more balls. It is not a classic style and probably why I don't like it. It is VERY effective against right handers though as his huge spin makes the ball bounce high and hard to counter. I've always said his career would be cut short by injury due to the style of play. Well he's still going but has missed big chunks of time.

 

33 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Also the fact that Novak makes tennis look easy or boring, is deceptive of how good he really is. Ball comes out of the centre nearly 100%. Roger mishit tons yesterday, amazing so many went in.

Novak hits a pretty flat ball 90% of the time or just bunts back defensive balls, Roger hits all styles of spin and angles that most mere mortals couldn't even imagine. So yes he will always mis-hit more balls than a flat hitter. Rafa also frames balls into the crowd because of the spin he hits with.

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20 hours ago, zippi said:

I haven't seen the final this year due to being ill, however the fact (if true) of Novak being "robotic" and Federer playing "with panache" is fascinating. I specifically disliked FedEx during his domination of a decade and then some - specifically because of being like a robot and playing with no expression whatsoever (panache was not even on the horison).

I was only talking about game style and creativity, not personality. Neither of them give away much by their antics or expression.

 

I watched the Kayo "mini" highlights package last night... It went for about 40 minutes and gave a good feel for how the game was being played, but unfortunately without the tension. The only winners I saw Novak hit were mid court short balls which were begging to be put away. To me this just highlights his defensive nature, it was always Roger making the play and that is why I love watching him. Unfortunately I've never seen Federer live, but hope to at next year Aus Open.

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47 minutes ago, blybo said:

I was only talking about game style and creativity, not personality. Neither of them give away much by their antics or expression.

 

I watched the Kayo "mini" highlights package last night... It went for about 40 minutes and gave a good feel for how the game was being played, but unfortunately without the tension. The only winners I saw Novak hit were mid court short balls which were begging to be put away. To me this just highlights his defensive nature, it was always Roger making the play and that is why I love watching him. Unfortunately I've never seen Federer live, but hope to at next year Aus Open.

 

Federer is great live especially his gliding around the court and strokes when he has time.  But to be honest Novak is just as good and at this time in their careers,  better. I saw him this year at the Aust open with pretty good seats.

   To see his speed, anticipation and his footwork is amazing.  He always seems more balanced than any other player, and that is his footwork, especially the little steps. 

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1 minute ago, metal beat said:

To see his speed, anticipation and his footwork is amazing.  He always seems more balanced than any other player, and that is his footwork, especially the little steps. 

In the final highlights I saw him face down on the court several times. Federer wasn't shown to have fallen, I assume it would have been in there if he did.

 

I'll always prefer an attacking player over a defensive one. I'm not trying to criticism Novak, he's obviously #1 for a reason, it's just not my preference of game style.

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