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bhobba

Samsung 8K 65 Inch TV

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The technology sucked me in so ordered one of the new Samsung 8k 65 inch TV's::

https://www.techguide.com.au/reviews/televisions-reviews/samsung-q900-8k-tv-review-best-tv-can-buy-also-expensive/

 

Haven't got it yet, the store, Videopro, needs to get it in.

 

Will let you know more once its installed - technically looks the bees knees.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

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Just a question - what 8K content is there to watch on it?

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That's a great review, particularly that the upscaling is so good which is important at the moment (minimal 8k content).

 

Look forward to hearing your thoughts when you get it.

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with regards upscaling have to be aware of some ramifications of a 8k screen.

 

8k is 33.178 million pixels. even 1080p is only some 2 million pixels ! so to upscale even 1080p the upscaler has to invent some 31 million pixels ? for the final 8k image or to look at another way when a 1080p video is upscaled to 8k only some 6.25% of it is the original image you will be looking at ..... 93.75% of the image is created with the upscale :D

 

standard definiton ? (a great amount of our TV is below high definition) only 1.25% of an 8k image is from the original SD signal....98.75% is fabricated :D 

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Great review, although I don't agree that this TV will future proof for 10 years when i don't think it'll live for more than 5.

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Thanks for the review.

 

I wonder how it compares to today’s flagship OLED as opposed to the QLED it was put up against?

 

I’m planning on jumping on the 4K wagon for the first time later this year, so am hoping 8K takes its time before matching prices of current 65” 4K sets... 

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saw an Samsung 8K in the flesh at JB Werribee Plaza.....simply stunning!  Incredible amount of detail.

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9 hours ago, Ralfi said:

I wonder how it compares to today’s flagship OLED as opposed to the QLED it was put up against?

 

Still having problems with my broken Femur so cant go and check it out myself.   But a friend called into Harvey Norman and saw the Samsung 8K side by side to 4k OLED.   The OLED was blacker than black in a darkened room and had the better looking image.   It was closer in a normal semi lighted room, but the OLED still had the better image.  Remember though OLED burns in easy and will not be covered by warranty.   The Samsung looked more natural, the OLED, while better, more contrived.   At least that was my friends view.  When you got right next to the screen the Samsung killed the 4k OLED - no pixilation at all - none - you could still see pixels on the OLED.   At normal viewing positions unnoticeable but still impressive.   The new 8K is not future proof - they always say that about new technology but don't you believe it.   It however will take a couple of years to do it and prices will definitely come down.

 

There is no 8K material and there is a good chance when it becomes available you will not have the internet speed.   At the moment you have to rely on upscaling - and for probably quite a while - but that is now using new AI techniques:

https://www.techguide.com.au/news/televisions-news/samsungs-ai-upscaling-works-new-8k-qled-tvs/

 

You reportedly need a minimum of 25mps for 4k and 50 for 8k (its not 4 times because the compression algorithms work better on higher resolution material).   Even though I pay for 100mps the best I do is between 35-40.   I would go to 50 except my ISP doesn't offer it - only 12, 25 and 100.   But its 100 price is about the same as other ISP's 50 price so I can't be bothered changing ISP's.   However, again reportedly, the majority of people cant get 50, at this stage anyway, so native 8k is out unless they come up  with better compression methods  - which are being worked on:

http://www.insightmedia.info/8k-tvs-top-tv-line-ups-for-a-reason/

 

In practice we will usually use services like Netflix etc rather than broadcast channels.   They will likely use intelligent compression techniques that adjusts compression to available bandwidth:

https://qz.com/920857/netflix-nflx-uses-ai-in-its-new-codec-to-compress-video-scene-by-scene/

 

Combine this with the upscaling AI in new TV's like this Samsung and it will all be pretty seamless - whether it will  be that noticeable I have  no idea.

 

Thanks

Bill 

Edited by bhobba

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Is this upscaling tech being used in any 4K TV's?

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22 hours ago, SLE355 said:

Great review, although I don't agree that this TV will future proof for 10 years when i don't think it'll live for more than 5.

I noted one thing missing from the review ; the hdmi version ;) If it didn't have the full hdmi 2.1 chipset it would be unfortunate for future 8k frame rates etc..

A quote ;

Quote

LG confirmed to CNET that its 2019 OLED and high-end LCD models will include full-spec HDMI 2.1 ports. That's the first such confirmation by a major TV maker.For its part LG's rival Samsung told CNET it would also support HDMI 2.1 in its 2019 TVs, but wouldn't provide further details -- such as whether it would support the full spec, as LG claims, or just certain parts of it -- by press time. 

 

On 06/06/2019 at 4:51 PM, Jeddie said:

Just a question - what 8K content is there to watch on it?

How good is your reception ? :whistle:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/08/16/nhk-will-broadcast-8k-from-december-1st/

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15 hours ago, bhobba said:

Remember though OLED burns in easy and will not be covered by warranty.   

Plasma were also meant to be prone to burn in, but mine hasn’t done so, even after 6+ years.

15 hours ago, bhobba said:

Samsung killed the 4k OLE- no pixilation at all - none - you could still see pixels on the OLED.   At normal viewing positions unnoticeable but still impressive. 

Wondering if this upscaling is applying an artificial ‘smoke screen’ to make it appear smoother whilst sacrificing detail? The ‘plasticine’ look has been condemned in many Blu-Ray transfers as it removes natural film grain, so I’m curious if the 8k set is following suite?

 

I’ll be at JB’s tomorrow for other matters, but I’ll check it out 😁

Edited by Ralfi

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28 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

Plasma were also meant to be prone to burn in, but mine hasn’t done so, even after 6+ years.

indeed ours has never shown effects, but we were careful and yet thrown everything at it. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

Wondering if this upscaling is applying an artificial ‘smoke screen’ to make it appear smoother whilst sacrificing detail? The ‘plasticine’ look has been condemned in many Blu-Ray transfers as it removes natural film grain, so I’m curious if the 8k set is following suite?

 

as I mentioned below the upscaler has a big job to do ... in fabricating detail.... 

23 hours ago, betty boop said:

with regards upscaling have to be aware of some ramifications of a 8k screen.

 

8k is 33.178 million pixels. even 1080p is only some 2 million pixels ! so to upscale even 1080p the upscaler has to invent some 31 million pixels ? for the final 8k image or to look at another way when a 1080p video is upscaled to 8k only some 6.25% of it is the original image you will be looking at ..... 93.75% of the image is created with the upscale :D

 

standard definiton ? (a great amount of our TV is below high definition) only 1.25% of an 8k image is from the original SD signal....98.75% is fabricated :D 

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Local JB Hi-Fi only had the demo running through the 8k set (no FTA TV to compare with other sets 🙄). 

 

So of course the demo looked good (great). I just can’t tell if it’s better than current 4K OLEDs.

 

Looks like all 2019 OLEDs by LG, Sony & Panasonic will support Dolby Vision & HDR (from what I gathered), which is good I guess. 

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12 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

Local JB Hi-Fi only had the demo running through the 8k set (no FTA TV to compare with other sets 🙄). 

 

So of course the demo looked good (great). I just can’t tell if it’s better than current 4K OLEDs.

 

Looks like all 2019 OLEDs by LG, Sony & Panasonic will support Dolby Vision & HDR (from what I gathered), which is good I guess. 

 

good to see in person, but as picked up would want to see on a wide range of real world material the demo loops are just there to get your attention ! 

 

2019 panasonic oled 100% supports the lot :) 

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14 minutes ago, betty boop said:

 

good to see in person, but as picked up would want to see on a wide range of real world material the demo loops are just there to get your attention ! 

 

2019 panasonic oled 100% supports the lot :) 

Yeah exactly. 

 

Found it it funny when I asked the salesman if the current OLEDs could have their picture settings changed, he said they’re directed by the manufactures to not alter their ‘store settings’... 🙃

 

So the retailers are now unable to change the dynamic picture modes in store...I’m sorry, but when it comes the time for me to spend thousands on a new OLED, I’m not buying from a store that won’t let me compare the sets properly...

 

The salesman also said, ‘yeah & even if we did allow it, then you’d need to walk from one aisle to another, to compare the screens from the different manufacturers’....err, yeah, again, if I’m spending big money on a TV, I’m going to walk 10m however many times it takes to compare sets properly! 😂 

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14 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

Found it it funny when I asked the salesman if the current OLEDs could have their picture settings changed, he said they’re directed by the manufactures to not alter their ‘store settings’... 🙃

look i can understand makers wanting them to look their best in the store environment, and every other jock coming along and messing up the settings. but yeah inshore setting with their burn out your retina cranked to max looks is hardly going to be what use at home. 

 

15 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

So the retailers are now unable to change the dynamic picture modes in store...I’m sorry, but when it comes the time for me to spend thousands on a new OLED, I’m not buying from a store that won’t let me compare the sets properly..

makes tough indeed. i remember back in the day where pio kuro were all pro calibrated. hitachi had their reps in store and sent even HN staff on extensive training. perhaps all those days long gone... with things just lot more locked down by maker ! 

 

17 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

The salesman also said, ‘yeah & even if we did allow it, then you’d need to walk from one aisle to another, to compare the screens from the different manufacturers’....err, yeah, again, if I’m spending big money on a TV, I’m going to walk 10m however many times it takes to compare sets properly! 😂 

indeed ! 

 

its not like these things are chicken feed in any case. let alone telly here oleds are getting WAY up there ! the new 2019 pana oled is nearly $8k for top model !  you want to be sure what you are buying and locked down demo loops with manufacturer cranked levels is really not what should be decider ! 

 

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2 hours ago, Ralfi said:

Yeah exactly. 

 

Found it it funny when I asked the salesman if the current OLEDs could have their picture settings changed, he said they’re directed by the manufactures to not alter their ‘store settings’... 🙃

 

So the retailers are now unable to change the dynamic picture modes in store...I’m sorry, but when it comes the time for me to spend thousands on a new OLED, I’m not buying from a store that won’t let me compare the sets properly...

 

The salesman also said, ‘yeah & even if we did allow it, then you’d need to walk from one aisle to another, to compare the screens from the different manufacturers’....err, yeah, again, if I’m spending big money on a TV, I’m going to walk 10m however many times it takes to compare sets properly! 😂 

Depends where you go. At my local Good Guys, the sales guy gave me the remote and I changed the setting of Sony Oled and also changed to FTA channels.

 

This was mid week and there was no other customers around.

 

When I asked at my local JB to change they refused, also claimed they had no FTA available.

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3 hours ago, Ralfi said:

So of course the demo looked good (great). I just can’t tell if it’s better than current 4K OLEDs.

 

Looks like all 2019 OLEDs by LG, Sony & Panasonic will support Dolby Vision & HDR (from what I gathered), which is good I guess. 

Theoretically an oled would still have better black levels and better gradations ; mainly because of the extra layers in the Samsung's panel qled substrate vs the oleds simpler "sandwich" I think Ralfi ;)

The Sammy too is a FALD set  so good but not up to oled black uniformity and level.. Depending on how many zones it may be close though . Resolution comes third after WCG and HDR . My 2.0c

Quote

Direct Full Array Elite III

With HDR displayed the Sammy high nit level is a plus if you like your  highlights not rolled off a tad . As for the competing HDR formats [and the Sammy limited to hdr10+ no dv likely ] a good title to stuff around the help so to speak would be Alita battle angel which has both forms of metadata B) '' Why doesn't this tele play the dolby vision I picked ? :)

https://highdefdiscnews.com/2019/05/21/alita-battle-angel-comes-to-4k-and-blu-ray-in-july/

Look forward to Teoh's inevitable review to see what its really like :)

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1 hour ago, Whites said:

Depends where you go. At my local Good Guys, the sales guy gave me the remote and I changed the setting of Sony Oled and also changed to FTA channels.

 

This was mid week and there was no other customers around.

 

When I asked at my local JB to change they refused, also claimed they had no FTA available.

I hate to say this,  but JB as good as they are to deal with in terms of warranty, they are box movers.....  some will most wont.... I walked into a JB store and all this guy was into doing was how fast he can convinced you to hand over that cash...   The usual tactics are;  we only have one left,  sorry sold out on these but these I have in stock and not many left!  And usually the ones he does have in stock are ones no one wants..get the picture?   I was there for 15mins and this is what i heard and saw as people made enquires 

To get them to move a panel side by side for you to compare, you should bring your own test material, even your own source!  And then ensure that the settings are set accordingly. 

A store that has no FTA is not that far fetch, but silly if it’s not available for demo purposes.   

Nearly ALL stores; HN, Good Guys, Beta Electricals and JB will have there panel section way in the back of the store where it’s nice and dark accept Myer Melb.   No surprise here and nearly most will be set on dynamic or cranked to the max.  I’ve heard that some are not allowed to vary or deviate from the recommended settings;  I don’t have to explain why that’s the case, but if a panel suffers “burn in”  and the settings are deviated the manufacture/supplier will refuse to accept liability and exchange the panel under warranty.  LG will replace a OLED quick smart when a store representative phones it in for being defective, however that comes under certain conditions,  where Sony and Panasonic are yet to be experience.....according to a Myer rep 5 mths ago! 

I don’t know how you would compare HDR settings and I think it’s all a selling point, there not on professionally commercial screens and most are calibrated using a spectrometer, at one store a panel was on demo mode for a comparison with and without HDR, on HDR spit screen 50:50 the panel was obvious set on Dynamic the picture on HDR was that saturated that it looked like it was cartoonished and fake....it was no way  realistic it should have left with HDR turned off!  

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Went to HN in Springvale yesterday, they have Foxtel 4K playing on a lot of the panels, which i thought was good. The Panasonic OLED was the most natural looking for skin tones, but as everyone has said, hard to compare in stores.

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Remind me again, ... what distance from the 65” or 75” 8k screen do I sit to resolve the image?

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I spent about 10min watching a demo loop at HN the other day. Getting real close it's impressive to see no pixel structure but standing back 1.5m from the screen it just felt like a normal LCD and looked noticeably more washed out than I would have hoped. 

 

1600:1 native contrast and pretty bad DSE, Im struggling to work out why people would spend so much more on this over an Oled or Q90r etc. 

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On 11/06/2019 at 6:55 AM, jamesg11 said:

Remind me again, ... what distance from the 65” or 75” 8k screen do I sit to resolve the image?

Assuming you mean 8k native content, it's around 1.1m for a 65" and 1.3m for a 75"... (about 2.4m/2.8m for 4k)

Edited by Gbickle

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Like the OP, was convinced the Samsung 8k was the bees knees in TVs, and with some cracker deals on that expire Monday, I set aside time on friday and went into the Good Guys to buy one. I did take along a USB with some 720 and 1080p media files as well. I get that 4k and eventually 8k will be the norm, but until then a lot of my streamed content is 1080, or even 720..so I wanted to see what it looked like. Good Guys was a ghost town, but I eventually found someone who could help. I explained that I wanted to play my own files and she said she didn’t think that would be possble as they are all on the manufacturers store loop. She did offer to call her manager and ask..eventually a nice guy called Geoff  came from somewhere and said what ever I wanted to do was no problem. We then played the 720 and 1080 files on the Q900 8k, and the Q90. Long story short, the Q900 was disappointing, the picture lacked depth, and the 1080 media looked weirdly artificial, kind of hard to describe, but it was a little like a disney animation or a 50’s B&W that was recoloured. Even the manufacturer displayed video did not look as good on the Q900 than the Q90. I had heard that the upscaling was not without its flaws, but it was not great on lower quality files. Even the Q90 was not tremendous. I then went and played the same files on the Sony OLED (KD65A8F) the difference was night and day. The picture quality of the 1080 media was great, way better than either samsung.

 

So, I left without a new TV to go do more research. A few minutes with google, and you can find out that the UI on the Sony’s is pretty rubbish, and there are apparently issues streaming, so know I am back to square one looking for a new TV.

 

What I will do is when I find one, I will go back to Geoff at Good Guys..Artarmon. He was knowledgable, helpful, and not pushy.  

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1 hour ago, Mrpseudonym said:

 

 

So, I left without a new TV to go do more research. A few minutes with google, and you can find out that the UI on the Sony’s is pretty rubbish, and there are apparently issues streaming, so know I am back to square one looking for a new TV.

 

 

This is why i prefer using external sources for play back, Vero 4K and Apple TV etc. Don't have to worry about those issues then.

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