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When to return / request a refund, or just take the hit on a bad record?


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I recently bought a new record on eBay that has a fair bit of surface noise and a repeated click across the majority of side A. I gave it a glue clean to no avail, it sounds identical, so it's fair to say that I'm very dissatisfied with it; particularly since the comments on discogs about this pressing were quite positive, a couple of people specifically mentioning it as being low noise. The thing is, it would pass as NM to a visual inspection, but I wouldn't feel confident grading it anything higher than VG in listening. Do I contact my eBay seller for a refund or replacement? I do buy a lot of CDs and records from them and this is the first time I think I've been dissatisfied with what I've received. Do I chase it up with the label instead, seeing as it's not really the seller's fault? Paying $36 for a new record only for it to sound crap isn't right. My only reservation is I don't have a way of demonstrating it.

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Contact the seller.

 

If you're a regular customer he will probably want to keep you. Explain the situation in a friendly manner and see where that takes you.

 

Not doing anything is not going to bring any improvement.

 

Cheers,

 

Alberto

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Most definitely ask for a refund. 

 

If necessary you could take a video of it playing using your phone? 

 

If they ask for it to be sent back then they will easily be able to hear the faults. So don't worry about being able to prove the faults. 

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Hi,

 

Ask for a refund / another record, as others have said, if you are a regular customer then they will want to keep your service.

 

JJ

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Thanks guys, I'm gonna contact the seller. My only concern is that from my experience sellers prefer to send a replacement rather than give refunds, and I'm not sure how much I trust this pressing now. Are 'duds' of otherwise good pressings common? I wonder what my chances of getting a better one would be.

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Many sellers will grade on a visual inspection.  You can't count on them being able to hear the flaw, because they may not have a turntable/many not have a good turntable/may not have discriminating ears to be able to or want to hear the defect. 

 

I would say contact the seller, you may get a good outcome.  But you might also be prepared to take the hit if this doesn't go well. 

 

What's the disk - other people here may have experience with it and be able to give an opinion of the quality. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, soundfan said:

Hardly the fault of the seller that the "new" record" sounds like crap.  I'd put it down to experience.

An avoidable bad experience. True, it isn't the sellers fault but it isn't the buyers either. Spending good money should yield a good product. Besides, the seller should be getting a refund from the supplier anyway, so refunding the buyer shouldn't be a problem.

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11 hours ago, audiofeline said:

Many sellers will grade on a visual inspection.  You can't count on them being able to hear the flaw, because they may not have a turntable/many not have a good turntable/may not have discriminating ears to be able to or want to hear the defect. 

 

I would say contact the seller, you may get a good outcome.  But you might also be prepared to take the hit if this doesn't go well. 

 

What's the disk - other people here may have experience with it and be able to give an opinion of the quality. 

 

 

It's Enter the Wu-Tang (36  Chambers) which has a ton of different pressings around, so fairly unlikely anybody here has specific experience with this one. I bought the 2018 yellow pressing on the advice of the favourable discogs comments. It's the first time I've ever bought coloured vinyl over black and I'd say it's hands down the worst sounding new record I've bought. Won't be making the same mistake again any time soon.

9 hours ago, stevoz said:

An avoidable bad experience. True, it isn't the sellers fault but it isn't the buyers either. Spending good money should yield a good product. Besides, the seller should be getting a refund from the supplier anyway, so refunding the buyer shouldn't be a problem.

I should also note that the seller is a business who ships a lot of stuff (500K+ feedback), they're not a little guy selling records out of their lounge-room. If they don't take it up with their supplier I wouldn't be surprised if they just eat it and move on.

Edited by Doomguy
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Don't think about it too long. There is a limited time to complain. I took a while getting back re a CD with a visible piece of surface coating missing (causing dropout in the middle of the disc). The vendor has not replied to messages and the complaint/mediation period is no longer available.

It was a cheaper used disc, but the description was wrong, or at least misleading. That's what happens to people who procrastinate.

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Thanks guys, I'm gonna contact the seller. My only concern is that from my experience sellers prefer to send a replacement rather than give refunds, and I'm not sure how much I trust this pressing now. Are 'duds' of otherwise good pressings common? I wonder what my chances of getting a better one would be.

 

The truth is there’s good sellers and there’s bad sellers. You could only ask and hope you get a good one to send you refund without a problem. Some would ask you to send the record back, some will pay for return postage some need you to pay for it. Some would refund and let you keep the record. So it all depends on your luck.

 

Like someone have said before, if you do nothing then nothing is going to happen. But if you try then something good might happen, but do prepare for a bad experience. I wish you good luck. [emoji16]

 

I have found new records’ quality hit and miss. I have experienced in the same pressing, exchange a dude one for an absolutely quiet one, even a muddy sounding one to a much clearer one! Also like you, a “supposedly” quiet pressing turned out to be a noise fest.

 

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@Doomguy I hope you have follow up and requested a full refund.....you deserve one. I always do (in a nice way, getting angry never helps) and if the seller requests the record returned, I tell them they will pay for return postage.

 

You should never have to pay to return it for a mistake that is not your fault. If I purchased through ebay, I usually tell the seller that I haven't gone through ebay yet, preferring to let them come up with a suitable solution. That solution is usually a full refund and to keep the record. Those sellers will get my return business and positive feedback. If they persist with what I consider is an unfair outcome, they get blacklisted and I get onto ebay to force a fair outcome, which they usually do.....

This approach has seen me get probably a 90% full refund rate while keeping the record. Approx. 5%, full refund after returning record at their expense and approx. 5% 'take the hit' and blacklist the seller.

 

You do have rights and should never be left 'out of pocket'.👍

 

 

Edited by stevoz
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Yeah I sent them a polite message about it last night clearly explaining the issue and that I don't want them to send a replacement as I just don't trust this pressing now, and that I've always been very satisfied when buying from them in the past etc. Regardless of whether I get a refund or not I'm probably just going to buy the CD and be happy with that as this is not an album that has a particularly good reputation on vinyl in general. If they ever do a good double LP reissue I'll look into that. Though, I suppose finding a used copy that somebody could verify the SQ of is also an option.

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Due to the seller's poor packing, I once received a box set which was torn and battered. I requested another box set, correctly packed, and asked them to pay the return postage for the damaged box set. Instead, they offered a few dollars of credit (I think it represented about 5% of the value of the box set). I declined, and they refunded the sale in full and didn't ask for the goods to be returned. Moral of the story, stick to your guns, as you have the right to expect the product and condition you paid for.

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18 minutes ago, Goatboy said:

Due to the seller's poor packing, I once received a box set which was torn and battered. I requested another box set, correctly packed, and asked them to pay the return postage for the damaged box set. Instead, they offered a few dollars of credit (I think it represented about 5% of the value of the box set). I declined, and they refunded the sale in full and didn't ask for the goods to be returned. Moral of the story, stick to your guns, as you have the right to expect the product and condition you paid for.

If a record was damaged due to insufficient packaging / packing I have no reservation about asking for discounts or replacements.  I've also taken note which sellers use what type of mailers. I got into vinyl 3 years ago and in my experience so far the mailers that have extra width, to act as 'crumple zones' for the corners, dramatically increase the chance that my record will actually arrive in mint condition. Of course, the heavier the record the more important it is, so if I'm buying a single 140g LP, if it's a particularly good deal from a seller that uses more so-so mailers then I can take that risk. However, if I'm buying a double 180g gatefold or something, a high quality mailer is absolutely required and I'll gladly spend a few dollars more if needed to get it from somewhere that packages their records properly. 

Removing the records from the sleeve is another layer on top entirely, though I haven't noticed as strong of a correlation there so far. I think it's mostly about the mailer and the luck of the draw as to whether or not anyone in the postal service decides to use your valuable package as a makeshift frisbee.

Edited by Doomguy
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I’ve a few records received in the mail which have cover damage. Can only assume this is due to the accelerating vinyl puncturing the cardboard as it’s launched as a frisbee by the courier. This is a difficult one from the seller’s POV as they need to open mint records to prevent this. Almost every seller I’ve encountered separate the vinyl and cover for 2nd hand records though. 

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54 minutes ago, Goatboy said:

Almost every seller I’ve encountered separate the vinyl and cover for 2nd hand records though. 

You haven't spent much time on Discogs, have you....  :devil:

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On ‎1‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 12:29 PM, Doomguy said:

I recently bought a new record on eBay that has a fair bit of surface noise and a repeated click across the majority of side A. I gave it a glue clean to no avail, it sounds identical, so it's fair to say that I'm very dissatisfied with it; particularly since the comments on discogs about this pressing were quite positive, a couple of people specifically mentioning it as being low noise. The thing is, it would pass as NM to a visual inspection, but I wouldn't feel confident grading it anything higher than VG in listening. Do I contact my eBay seller for a refund or replacement? I do buy a lot of CDs and records from them and this is the first time I think I've been dissatisfied with what I've received. Do I chase it up with the label instead, seeing as it's not really the seller's fault? Paying $36 for a new record only for it to sound crap isn't right. My only reservation is I don't have a way of demonstrating it.

you could open up a discussion, and see what they say as a minimum.  The condition of the Album (IMO) had nothing to do with packaging, nor damage during transit. So, i'm inclined to say its the pressing or bad inners (those f'ing paper inners kill me).  However, if the seller moves a lot of albums, they may get a credit for the faulty album and give you an exchange/refund.

 

I had a similar thing recently with Juno. Blue Note 75Th Anniversary titles are mostly paper inners (maybe some exceptions..). Lee Morgan - Lee Way was one that arrived and upon first play after a RCM clean was still very noisy. After an Ultra sonic clean, still noisy.  The paper inners had damaged it beyond being restored.

 

Not the fault of Juno, more so Blue Note quality and use of way too cheap inners.  I sent them some feedback, I didn't ask for a replacement - however was sent one. I simply wanted them to feedback to BN that they need to stop damaging their products with cheap Inners and use poly ones.

 

Treat the seller how you'd like to be treated, it can go along way with a reputable seller / retail outlet.

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12 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

 i'm inclined to say its the pressing or bad inners (those f'ing paper inners kill me). 

Definitely the former as it came in a poly-lined paper sleeve. I agree that paper inner sleeves suck, but I don't think I've ever really experienced them to do anything worse than get a few paper shards over the record or maybe some light surface scuffing. I don't see how they could substantially harm the grooves themselves, especially to this degree. Some of the nicer pressings in my collection came in paper sleeves, I just replace them straight away and don't worry too much about it. Kinda blows my mind that there are places that actually sell paper sleeves though, I can't comprehend why you would ever buy them on purpose. Maybe for a sworn enemy or something.

Edited by Doomguy
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1 minute ago, scuzzii said:

there is someone, somewhere doing the Dr Evil laugh as people open an Album and see a paper inner...…..

Probably MoFi and anyone else whose inner sleeves end up running a dollar each.

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29 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

Not the fault of Juno, more so Blue Note quality and use of way too cheap inners.  I sent them some feedback, I didn't ask for a replacement - however was sent one. I simply wanted them to feedback to BN that they need to stop damaging their products with cheap Inners and use poly ones.

 

Treat the seller how you'd like to be treated, it can go along way with a reputable seller / retail outlet.

Juno are excellent.

 

Great customer service, fast replies and always friendly.

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Never heard of Juno, just gave them a look and found something I wanted at a pretty competitive price, so I'll give them a try.

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Got my full refund after a brief back and forth with seller. I don't think the support person I talked to quite grasped the issue, our conversation (condensed) was basically;
 

Me: I've received a bad pressing and I don't want a replacement, can i please have a refund?
Support: We're sorry to hear that your item was damaged in the post, would you accept a 20% refund?
Me: The item was totally undamaged and showed no signs of being mishandled, it's simply defective from the factory. I'm going to chuck it out once the matter is resolved and I would not be happy with 20% as I'm not left with a satisfactory product.
Support: Our apologies, we will issue you a full refund and will investigate this matter with Royal Post. 

 

Whatever, I'm happy, glad they covered me without having to make a claim with eBay.

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I purchased a copy of Shelby Lynne's Just a Little Lovin' on clear vinyl a few years ago. You'd swear someone had been using it for frisbee in a gravel pit! Noisiest new lp I ever purchased.It took about 5 major cleanings by hand with a mild dish detergent & isopropyl solution. Each time it became a little less noisy until now there's hardly a tick.

If there's no visible pressing defects give multiple cleanings a try first. You might be surprised.

Edited by shawnwes
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  • 2 months later...
On 04/06/2019 at 2:41 PM, shawnwes said:

I purchased a copy of Shelby Lynne's Just a Little Lovin' on clear vinyl a few years ago. You'd swear someone had been using it for frisbee in a gravel pit! Noisiest new lp I ever purchased.It took about 5 major cleanings by hand with a mild dish detergent & isopropyl solution. Each time it became a little less noisy until now there's hardly a tick.

If there's no visible pressing defects give multiple cleanings a try first. You might be surprised.

Had the same experience with this one a few weeks ago but luckily purchased it from a hifi shop and explained to them about the noise and distortion i was experiencing. They were a bit sceptical at first and queried me on my table, arm, cart setup but got them to play ti on their own display system and there was no denying that something was not right and gave me a refund. I am now waiting on the Analog productions version in the mail which I am sure will not have any issues.

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