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yurinator

Stereo regret - Anyone purchase new hifi gear and immediately been dissatisfied?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, cableguy said:
On 22/05/2019 at 1:44 PM, Pops110 said:
Really?
Weight of an amp doesn’t determine how well it will make speakers “sing”
 

Ok, here's the background: when I was a young lad my dad had a good technics amp with volt meters on the front, I thought it sounded awesome as I was 15yrs old. My mate built a monoblock amp and it weighed a ton, needless to say even though it was driving only a single speaker it already sounded like on a totally different level. Pounds for pound hands down the heavy weight won. Fast forward to my late teens and 20s every amp I ever bought was replaced with a heavier amp and each amp make the same pair of speakers sound remarkable better. Then came my late 20s when I had a mix more coin and I bought an amp and new speakers, I got home and hooked them up and immediately reboxed the amp went back to store and said it wasnt heavy enough, they exchanged if foe the next one up in the range which was a few kilo heavier, same thing, still didn't sound right so took it back and got the next one up which was another few kilo heavier and then the speakers came alive. Not just at high volumes but throughout the whole audio range. After all these years later I just did the same thing, replaced my current amp with one that was 5 kg heavier and the same speakers completely transformed. All geekdom aside, I can't remember a single spec from any of my amps, but I can tell you if the were light or heavy. Geekdom considered, given all things equal, same class of amp, similar design, if you change out the power transformer for a heavier one of the same type you will have more rms volts, current and power available which will provide better holding grunt to the voice coils and sharpen up the sound of the speakers remarkably. This equates to higher power for the same THD. So yeah if your speakers sound like ****, get a heavier amp. And let's face it a cute 50-70watt rms amp will never make a 87db 100watt pair of speakers sound good, you need 150watt to realise the potential of those speakers and that equates to kgs. I recommend boxing up the amp and asking for an exchange for the heaviest brick you can afford.

https://www.devialet.com/en-eu/expert-210-pro-amplifier/ <6kg

 

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/VSX-LX303 >10kg

Edited by furtherpale

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20 hours ago, Pops110 said:

Really?

Weight of an amp doesn’t determine how well it will make speakers “sing”

It's not as silly as it sounds. An amplifier is only as good as its power supply and the bulk of the weight of an amplifier is from the power supply. The bigger and better the power supply, the heavier the amplifier. Of course there's a heck of a lot more to an amplifier than just its power supply, but it's an essential ingredient. It gets more complicated when power supplies are switch mode and therefore much lighter (predominantly used for class D amps) but for class A/AB amps there is an association.

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1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

It's not as silly as it sounds. An amplifier is only as good as its power supply and the bulk of the weight of an amplifier is from the power supply. The bigger and better the power supply, the heavier the amplifier. Of course there's a heck of a lot more to an amplifier than just its power supply, but it's an essential ingredient. It gets more complicated when power supplies are switch mode and therefore much lighter (predominantly used for class D amps) but for class A/AB amps there is an association.

I do understand that. But a blanket statement that an amp will sound better because it’s heavier is ludicrous.

The best amp I have heard in my system with 89 dB Tannoys’s at the time was a Bakoon 7511. It weighed 2.9 kg and was 15 watts .

 

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Posted (edited)

Whatever works in any given system is the best one can get, everything else is mindless debating. 

If amp A works better in a system instead of amp B, then A it is, but amp B might be better in a different system. 

It’s one thing I know to well about Hi-Fi, and one thing I hate about Audiophile arguments. 

 

I used to care what others thought about what I own, until I heard many other systems at many given times. 

I like what I built, others like what they built. Should they care what I think, as much as I don’t care what they think. 

Edited by Sime V2

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Pops110 said:

I do understand that. But a blanket statement that an amp will sound better because it’s heavier is ludicrous.

And I didn't say it was correct either, just that there is an association. My amps have all gone up in weight as I've upgraded, but I didn't choose them based on weight...

Edited by Ittaku

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I do understand that. But a blanket statement that an amp will sound better because it’s heavier is ludicrous.

The best amp I have heard in my system with 89 dB Tannoys’s at the time was a Bakoon 7511. It weighed 2.9 kg and was 15 watts .

 

I would like to hear the bakoon. It does fascinate me and I would like to put it up against my current amp, but I would think that it would sound thin at what I consider decent SPL. My suggestion was based on all things being equal, he is hardly going to swap his recent under 1k purchase with a 3k 15w/ch risk. All things being equal, if he swapped his amp for the next one up the kg weight scale he will hear improvements.

 

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Now that is interesting. The 140w/ch version is the same weight as the 210w/ch version. Both 5.65kg. But offering high end candy 10000euro! as a valid option to someone purchasing a 1000 dollar amp is a bit mean.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, cableguy said:
19 hours ago, furtherpale said:

Now that is interesting. The 140w/ch version is the same weight as the 210w/ch version. Both 5.65kg. But offering high end candy 10000euro! as a valid option to someone purchasing a 1000 dollar amp is a bit mean.

But clearly the Pioneer is better...

Edited by furtherpale

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How do you tell if the amplifier is not adequate to drive the speakers? What should I be listening for?  
In my experience shop auditions mislead you as much as they help you. The truth is in your own room, listening to your own music on your own medley of equipment and played at your preferred SPL. In this setting you will learn what sounds right and what doesn't and as you change a bit here and there you will figure out what just merely changes the sound and what drastically improves the sound. It the sound is not drastically improved by a change, then it wasn't worth the bother. It's easier to figure it out by focussing on one part at a time. Keep your speakers, they have way more to them than you have heard, swap the amp, its dead on the speakers. When the speakers come alive you will not be able to see where the sound comes from and you will sit there like a 5 yr old kid listening to an audiobook for the first time. Room dynamics will fix issues, but no point worrying about that unless your fine tweaking. First you got to get the speakers to sing to you. If that doesn't happen, that's ok, it's part of the journey, like a gf you kept too long cause she was easy, some days you want class, some days you want a tom boy, the rest of the time you just want big boobs. Find your big boob and class combination and you're in heaven.

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On 20/05/2019 at 7:12 PM, yurinator said:

It's only been a day.... 

 

In store the emotiva was great with the amp. I even used the same emotiva to audition some klipsch rp-600m. And they sounded beautiful together. But they were out of my price range. Maybe the klipsch are more efficient to run that's why they sounded good with that amp. I dunno.

 

Hrmmm I get what you mean. I was originally looking at the schiit vidar with schiit saga pre amp.... 

 

Just comparing them to my current speakers it just doesn't seem to add much more. My current speakers have better highs and have more clarity. 

 

Maybe I should have save more to get speakers and amp in a higher range.

 

 

I'm a little lost. What pre-amp are you using? 

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Posted (edited)

i once sold a sony ta-e9000es/rotel rmb-985 combo and picked up a song and dance onkyo avr.

it had more functionality but sounded awful.

took it back and bought another ta-e9000es.

Edited by michaelw

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Thanks for your input guys, someone's made an offer on the amp. I'm ready to spend around 1000 for a new amp. What amp do think will let speakers sing in that price range ? Or should I not expect too much from that price range. 

 

 

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Do you need an integrated or a power amp? I would be buying second hand, much better value for money and you can pick up something from higher up the food chain.

 

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Thanks for your input guys, someone's made an offer on the amp. I'm ready to spend around 1000 for a new amp. What amp do think will let speakers sing in that price range ? Or should I not expect too much from that price range. 
 
 
I'm with pops, buy second hand. Where you live? I can find an amp that is totally awesome for $200. Send me a private message and I will send you a link where I found it.

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Purchased some Gryphon Atlantis speakers when I sold my TAD Reference 1 speakers.

They were of no comparison, bad decision.

Got another pair of TAD’s and sod the Gryphon’s a few months later.

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>sod

 

Now there's a Freudian slip.

 

BTW I couldn't imagine ever selling a pair of TADs, were I fortunate enough to own them.

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