Truth or Snake oil

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 hour ago, Yngvi said:

 

Still one of my favourites.

So that’s where Zaphod ended up 

[Paul Faulkner]

A brontosaurus will do the job nicely 

[rantan]

1 minute ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

So that’s where Zaphod ended up 

Yep.

It is actually an exotic black python that eats its prey whole.

 

Forget WAF, I reckon it is barking ugly as well.

[jasonphilip]

1 hour ago, Yngvi said:

 

Still one of my favourites.

Looks like it's stuffed with hundred dollar notes

[andyr]

5 minutes ago, jasonphilip said:

Looks like it's stuffed with hundred dollar notes

 

Nah - for the ultimate in mains noise reduction, the black 'skin' is stuffed with depleted uranium.

 

Andy

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

28 minutes ago, wasdork said:

A brontosaurus will do the job nicely 

Reminds me of this:

 

 

 

[jeromelang]

2 hours ago, PKay said:

I'll stick with my Kimber 8TC thanks.

Did you check directionality?

[PKay]

5 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

Did you check directionality?

I did, but perish the thought the cable lengths are not the same. 

[Paul Faulkner]

58 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Reminds me of this:

 

 

 

Sir Sanders,I’ve got pythons flying circus on the PVR and have been watching them now and then,brilliant sketch.This is a dead parrot ? olé biscuit barrel smith.

Edited May 8, 2019 by wasdork

[Astrosound]

6 hours ago, Irek said:

Friend of mine told me he heard significant improvement in system with added small timber stands for speaker cables. Hmmm....

 

Every day I apply snake oil to my cables, but hey, I cannot find any more snakes in my frontyard!!!

Proof is when I put more oil to the left cable I hear Greenies better.

My cables, I keep levitating in the air with magnets, and big difference can be heard.

Although, I feel bit dizzy because all that magnets.

[cyclingsteve]

@Luc I had to try it!!!

 

You may be onto something!!!!................... At first I thought using Han Solo was ridiculous (it has to be placebo surely) but then I noticed the spaciousness between the instruments and an improved sound stage. With the cables off the carpet there was an immediate feel of musical cohesion I had never noticed before.  Although the Sondek somehow had a 'Darker' feel to the music.

[Paul Faulkner]

This really can’t be thing?Sorry but in all my listening years this has got be the winna,winna chicken dinna of money wasting.

[ScottR]

i reckon you just wanted an excuse to get your starwars figurines out mate....  enjoyed the read though

[barn door]

10 minute before each listening session, I sit down in front of my gear and give them a motivational pep talk.

 

Take them through how I want them to deliver low down and crisp bass, hit every Mid-Range note with finesse and accuracy, and work together to perform better than the last session on the sound stage and separation.

 

Works every time. Trust me *queue smile and shining gold tooth*

 

[Luc]

1 hour ago, cyclingsteve said:

At first I thought using Han Solo was ridiculous (it has to be placebo surely) but then I noticed the spaciousness between the instruments and an improved sound stage. With the cables off the carpet there was an immediate feel of musical cohesion I had never noticed before.  Although the Sondek somehow had a 'Darker' feel to the music.

QED

May the Force be with you!

 

 

[Assisi]

7 hours ago, Luc said:

But in all seriousness, I think our hobby is just an open target for the naysayers and I've long since stopped trying to justify either the ongoing cost to my wallet and also to all the people outside of our little audiophile world.

I'm with @Luc.  Threads such as this one and others that can sink to a low level as this one has the potential to do.  This does not enhance the opportunity for people to benefit from the experience of others.  Some of the the contributions are quite humorous.  However, it seems to me many comments are intended to belittle an appreciation of somethings based upon pure unawareness of potential.  For example the gee whizz of how expensive an item maybe. 

 

When I first joined SNA and I asked question about a particular product I received a private post that was a serious answer.  The post also included an aside that said "don't say anything it only encourages the naysayers".   That SNA member who was very knowledgeable no longer posts.  I wonder how many people give up with SNA because they consider that their contribution is regularly belittled.

 

The trick is to be humorous with out being disrespectful of the opinions or experience of others.

 

To finish on a humorous note, @Buffleasked the question does any body know about snake oil if they haven't tried?   I haven't. The Goanna is a reptile.  You can buy Goanna oil.  It is for relieving muscular problems etc.  I wonder what it might do for an audio system. 

 

https://www.amcal.com.au/goanna-liniment-oil---150ml-p-9311723000033

Edited May 8, 2019 by Assisi

[Buffle]

The naysayers typically being the ones with the engineering knowledge to actually design audio equipment.  As in, they actually know how this stuff works and can readily infer effects (or not).  It’d be silly to listen to them.  I mean, it’s not like they’ve dedicated many years to studying these things in great detail and might have a genuine interest in real performance.  What would they know?  

 

On the other hand, how many vendors peddling snake oil products also design electronics?

 

Feel free to indulge in mysticism in lieu of understanding how things work, but maybe go easy on the criticism of people who speak the language and are only trying to act as interpreters for you.  

[cyclingsteve]

2 hours ago, ScottR said:

i reckon you just wanted an excuse to get your starwars figurines out mate....  enjoyed the read though

Yes mate I was going through the shed trying to find them. Ive got about fifty figurines back from 1978/79. Someone sent me a message saying they may be worth bit in a few years time!!!

Edited May 8, 2019 by cyclingsteve

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, Buffle said:

On the other hand, how many vendors peddling snake oil products also design electronics?

@Buffle

 

I would suggest that many vendors understand and design good electronics.

 

Yet some people would say of many well designed products that the result is just snake oil.  Already in this thread there has been the mention of the proverbial matter of power cables. Your speaker cables are Siltech.  Great choice.  I assume you have them because they provide a benefit that you appreciate.  I also assume that the benefit is attributable to the quality of the Siltech engineering design.  I expect that you would be aware that also make power cables.  This is what Siltech say about one of their power cables.

 

 

“Power cables have an unexpectedly big audible effect that degrade the reproduction of music. Magnetic leakages cause distortion in particular frequency ranges; these are picked up by all connected electronics and other (interconnect) cables nearby and as such induce small distorted currents which are unrelated to the music but do affect it.
Furthermore, those distorted currents cause saturation in many power cords resulting into audible distortion at these peak currents.

 

 

 

During development of the Triple Crown power cables, very advanced Multiphysics software (COMSOLtm) and measuring equipment by FW Bell (3D Gauss) and Audio Precision (THD) helped to achieve our goal; extremely high levels of power integrity, leading to an astonishing subjective performance. The elimination of harshness, complete lack of induced distortion and subsequent bass stability create a new ultra-realistic feel to the music.

 

 

The first paragraph from Siltech above is interesting. 

Is Siltech’s design expertise limited to just to speaker cables and the above about a power cable is just snake oil. Or is there some  truth in what Siltech say.  There is no doubt that somethings are snake oil and some are not.  How do you decide what is snake oil and what is not?  I have lost count of the number of positive reviews I have read of serious and therefore often expensive products that immediately elicit some responses of that this is snake oil or something similar.  I bet that if the above about this Siltech power cable was included in a review in some way there would be calls of snake oil from some. 

John

Edited May 8, 2019 by Assisi

[Guest Muon N']

9 hours ago, Luc said:

But in all seriousness, I think our hobby is just an open target for the naysayers and I've long since stopped trying to justify either the ongoing cost to my wallet and also to all the people outside of our little audiophile world.

 

I've made some very good friends here because of my hobby and and I've seen enough serious weirdness that is almost borderline certifiable in some peoples set-ups (and the people...lordy lordy)...to never cast a stone at them.

If you think it works or if you like it then that's fine with me.

 

It's my hobby and it makes up a huge amount of what I find pleasurable in the world and if I want to jam Naruto into a compression driver then I will.

Yup, I was over these threads long ago, there is a difference between constructive criticism and trash talk, this thread and others like it are full of trash talk and only a rare bit of true constructive criticism.

Some folk get off on trash talk I guess.

 

Those that trash others choices in audio could likely be the potential targets of trash talk themselves if all was know of their life style, personal choices and beliefs. But the people in glass houses still like to throw stones regardless. 

 

That's the internet for ya'.

 

Each to there own.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Muon N'
typos

[A9X]

4 hours ago, Assisi said:

This is what Siltech say about one of their power cables.

And the independent verification of these purported in-house tests that prove the audibility of their power cables are where exactly? Seems they could easily contract it out to a reputable independent lab and easily recoup the costs through increased sales, but they never are. Until they are, all manufacturer "technical" claims should be taken by any thinking person as mere marketing bumf.

[Buffle]

7 hours ago, Assisi said:

 

Yet some people would say of many well designed products that the result is just snake oil.  Already in this thread there has been the mention of the proverbial matter of power cables. Your speaker cables are Siltech.  Great choice.  I assume you have them because they provide a benefit that you appreciate.  I also assume that the benefit is attributable to the quality of the Siltech engineering design.  I expect that you would be aware that also make power cables.  This is what Siltech say about one of their power cables.

 

 

“Power cables have an unexpectedly big audible effect that degrade the reproduction of music. Magnetic leakages cause distortion in particular frequency ranges; these are picked up by all connected electronics and other (interconnect) cables nearby and as such induce small distorted currents which are unrelated to the music but do affect it.
Furthermore, those distorted currents cause saturation in many power cords resulting into audible distortion at these peak currents.

 

 

 

During development of the Triple Crown power cables, very advanced Multiphysics software (COMSOLtm) and measuring equipment by FW Bell (3D Gauss) and Audio Precision (THD) helped to achieve our goal; extremely high levels of power integrity, leading to an astonishing subjective performance. The elimination of harshness, complete lack of induced distortion and subsequent bass stability create a new ultra-realistic feel to the music.

 

 

The first paragraph from Siltech above is interesting. 

Is Siltech’s design expertise limited to just to speaker cables and the above about a power cable is just snake oil. Or is there some  truth in what Siltech say.  There is no doubt that somethings are snake oil and some are not.  How do you decide what is snake oil and what is not?  I have lost count of the number of positive reviews I have read of serious and therefore often expensive products that immediately elicit some responses of that this is snake oil or something similar.  I bet that if the above about this Siltech power cable was included in a review in some way there would be calls of snake oil from some. 

John

Well, you're conflating two different things there.  There's a world of difference between marketing a product that has not been demonstrated to do anything and that, in many cases, cannot possibly do anything and differences in performance differences.  A Toyota Corolla and a Ferrari 488 perform differently, yet they both do what they claim to do.  There's even room for differing performance targets within a certain range of products.

 

In regard to Siltech speaker cables, no, I did not buy them because I considered that provided a benefit.  As it happens, I am quite capable of designing a speaker cable that can perform superbly within my system for a fraction of the cost of the Siltech cables that I use and have done so in the past.  I use the Siltech cables merely for the reason that they came with a pair of speakers I bought a few months ago (YG Carmel) and don't perform better or worse than my own design cables.  Speaker cables certainly could sound different.  For example, some amplifiers become unstable with overly capacitive speaker cables.  There's also a lot of horsecrap in speaker cable marketing.

 

As for power cables, if I designed a product in which the power cable made a difference, which in itself would be quite a feat considering it is only a small loop within a much greater loop of house and distribution cabling, I would be ashamed.  The power supply in my own power amplifier is designed such that, so long as it is capable of handling adequate current, any power cable would sound identical.    

 

As for how you can tell what is snake oil and what is not, well...you could start with a formal education in electronics engineering.

[Buffle]

7 hours ago, Muon N' said:

Those that trash others choices in audio could likely be the potential targets of trash talk themselves if all was know of their life style, personal choices and beliefs. But the people in glass houses still like to throw stones regardless. 

 

and if we were on a forum specialising in one of those lifestyle, personal choices, or beliefs then those should be open to critique too.  If a claim is made, should that not be open to challenge?

[Steffen]

11 hours ago, cyclingsteve said:

At first I thought using Han Solo was ridiculous (it has to be placebo surely) but then I noticed the spaciousness between the instruments and an improved sound stage. With the cables off the carpet there was an immediate feel of musical cohesion I had never noticed before.  Although the Sondek somehow had a 'Darker' feel to the music.

 

I can't believe people are actually doing this. Star Wars figurines, really? There is absolutely no scientific basis to this at all. How brainwashed can people be?

 

Any engineering minded person can tell you that it has to be Star Trek figurines...!

[Buffle]

5 minutes ago, Steffen said:

 

I can't believe people are actually doing this. Star Wars figurines, really? There is absolutely no scientific basis to this at all. How brainwashed can people be?

 

Any engineering minded person can tell you that it has to be Star Trek figurines...!

I use dragonglass.  Eliminates a coldness to the sound.