Truth or Snake oil

[PKay]

18 minutes ago, NB Speaker Cables said:

G'day all,

 

With permission from joz, I though I would jump in and answer any questions y'all have about our cables.

 

ScottR shared our Mission Statement which we feels sums us up pretty well (albeit the grammatical errors that have since been fixed!)

 

"Our mission is in our name, ‘No Bullsh*t Speaker Cables’. We want to provide good quality, ‘Aussie as possible’ cables without the hefty price tag.

We don’t claim to have the ‘best’ cables or claim the title of ‘Audiophile Grade’. We simply provide Australian Made cable paired with good quality plugs all at a reasonable price.

It’s as simple as that."

 

We are simply another offering. We believe in low resistance = quality. We don't believe in a lot of the claims made by some manufacturers but we are not here to bring them down or tell people they can't hear what they believe they can here. We have no issues with those that spend thousands of dollars on cables. If you spend $10k on cables and feel it improves the quality of your audio experience and are happy with your purchase, then you'd be silly to buy anything else. 

 

You're welcome to read our 'About Us' page to see how we came about, but long story short, we are a 2 man army (brothers in fact!), that struggled to find well assembled cables without a hefty price tag, so started the process of sourcing the materials and making cables ourselves which turned into a business offering. We try and keep things as Aussie made as possible and are fortunate enough to have Tycab who manufacturers cable here in Australia which is the 'backbone' of our cables. We pride ourselves on our name, 'No Bullsh*t' Speaker Cables. We have nothing to hide and aren't here to make bold claims. We are the first to admit that anyone can purchase the materials we source and make the cables themselves that will sound no different to our cables. Some people just don't want to make up cables themselves and can't see the value of spending thousands, or even hundreds on cables which is where we are happy to jump in. We aren't about to retire on making a few dozen cables a month, especially for the price we sell them for. But the small profit we do make gives us pocket money to spend on our own systems.

 

While we take the assembly of our cables and the quality of our product seriously, we like to have a bit of fun too. This can be quickly picked up by spending a few minutes on our website.

 

We've sold a few hundred cables over our short 11 month lifespan and have been humbled (yet overwhelmed) by the positive feedback we have been receiving. At the end of the day, we're all very fortunate to be in a position to enjoy audio which at the end of day is a luxury. We feel we fill a gap in the market that means our customers can spend more money on the components that we feel makes the biggest impact on the system.. ie speakers! 

 

Happy to answers any questions people may have. Thanks again for the opportunity!

______________________________

SIGNATURE:

Having a bit of trouble updating my signature, so this is my sig for now at the bottom of each comment! Needless to say I have a commercial interest in NB Speaker Cables (I think the name and profile pic may have given it away?).

 

NB Speaker Cables - www.nbspeakercables.com.au

Good on you to both you and your brother. 

 

Having heard some Van Damme “cheap” cable compared to Cardas Clear I can say in my system they sounded very similar. More expensive isn’t necessarily better. 

[rantan]

4 hours ago, Muon N' said:

No, but it is obvious to anyone with experience and an understanding around cables

 

Unless their cables are magic

Which they are certainly not.

 

I am somewhat surprised that people respond positively to the no bullshit  mantra. It isn't especially clever, nor is it original. The superhero  nomenclature is a bit corny as well.

 

With all that said these may well be capable journey person cables and I wish them every success ( yes really )

[NB Speaker Cables]

1 minute ago, rantan said:

Which they are certainly not.

 

I am somewhat surprised that people respond positively to the no bullshit  mantra. It isn't especially clever, nor is it original. The superhero  nomenclature is a bit corny as well.

 

With all that said these may well be capable journey person cables and I wish them every success ( yes really )

 

Thanks for the feedback mate!

 

Our cables and “mantra” certainly won’t be for everyone, but we feel that’s okay. Wouldn’t life be quite boring if the same thing tickled everyone’s fancy haha!

 

We appreciate the well wishes too :).

[Tony ray]

19 hours ago, Muon N' said:

I read some BS on their site, as there is no way these cables would sound the same as some of the more expensive local favourites around these parts (no, not 10k cables), so BS from the other extreme end of things.

 

Edit: but they aren't over charging for them considering material cost + labour, you get what you pay for.

 

They would sound as good as any cable there is if correctly made and within capacitance.  Those that can hear difference in speaker cables have unicorn ears. A coat hangar will suffice 

[rantan]

3 minutes ago, Tony ray said:

  A coat hangar will suffice 

I will go to Vinnies and get you an old coat so you can use the hangar for something worthwhile.

[Tony ray]

1 minute ago, rantan said:

I will go to Vinnies and get you an old coat so you can use the hangar for something worthwhile.

TV reception. Just as good as fancy Airiels back in the day.

 

[rantan]

Just now, Tony ray said:

TV reception. Just as good as fancy Airiels back in the day.

 

Yes indeed.

 

Many a time I have used a coat hanger for a TV ariel back in the day, often with great results.

[Guest Muon N']

19 hours ago, Tony ray said:

They would sound as good as any cable there is if correctly made and within capacitance.  Those that can hear difference in speaker cables have unicorn ears. A coat hangar will suffice 

You ascribe something ordinary as being extraordinary.

[Assisi]

5 hours ago, Darren69 said:

Cant say just now, it would be against forum guidelines sorry mate. Sounds like a cop out but I can't say.

@Darren69

Hi Darren,

I consider that Furutech is a company with an excellent reputation for manufacturing a quality product.  I have several Furutech products that I consider do exactly what they are designed to do.  I do not think it is reasonable to cast doubt on all products that a company may manufacture based upon one or several that may to some have questionable value.  If that was the case then that would apply to a plethora of quality companies.  The list of companies would be long.

 

 

You have not named the Furutech questionable product(s).  I can guess as to what one might be as I am aware that others do likewise have the same doubts.  Also given the humour in this thread regarding the various cable lifters, I guess that it might be the NCF lifter

http://www.furutech.com/2017/10/11/15603/

 

 

The doubts may be especially so given the cost of each device is about A$600.  This could be considered a very high price for a cable lifter.  I have seen them at shows but never tried one.  I would like to try one though out of curiosity.  An audio friend of mine goes to Japan ever year for the shows and buy product.  A couple of years ago he came across the NCF lifter and was highly sceptical.  When he heard the beneficial difference, he quickly changed his mind.  The down side is the cost.

If I am correct in my guess please say so and I will have some more to say on the clamping or locking of cables.

 

John

Edited May 16, 2019 by Assisi

[Ittaku]

@Assisi have you ever tried a device, tweak, cable, or other hi-fi alteration that has not made an audible difference in your experience?

[Assisi]

1 minute ago, Ittaku said:

@Assisi have you ever tried a device, tweak, cable, or other hi-fi alteration that has not made an audible difference in your experience?

@IttakuI did not say I had tried the lifter but that I would like to.  To answer the question directly MANY MANY! have definitely been less than a success (see below).  I have lost count.  I do not talk about the failures.  I read many posts on SNA about the wonderful result that somebody has achieved with such and such tweak and I think really.  That didn't happen for me.   It is not for me to say that in their particular situation that they are wrong.  Each to his own. 

Also remember that as @davewantsmoore pointed out to me once that it is important to distinguish between difference and benefit.  Some of the tweaks that I have tried make a change or difference but for me it is not a benefit.  In fact they take some thing away.  The tweaks that work for me seem to be about a reduction in the noise floor and an increase the dynamics.

 

John

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, Assisi said:

@IttakuI did not say I had tried the lifter but that I would like to.  To answer the question directly MANY MANY! have definitely been less than a success (see below).  I have lost count.  I do not talk about the failures.  I read many posts on SNA about the wonderful result that somebody has achieved with such and such tweak and I think really.  That didn't happen for me.   It is not for me to say that in their particular situation that they are wrong.  Each to his own. 

Also remember that as @davewantsmoore pointed out to me once that it is important to distinguish between difference and benefit.  Some of the tweaks that I have tried make a change or difference but for me it is not a benefit.  In fact they take some thing away.  The tweaks that work for me seem to be about a reduction in the noise floor and an increase the dynamics.

 

John

 I know the difference (heh) between difference and improvement. I was more interested in those that there was no difference specifically, but you've already cleared that up. Thanks. Now are there any that you consider snake oil? No need to out them if you don't feel like it, just want your view on it.

[Assisi]

49 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

 I know the difference (heh) between difference and improvement. I was more interested in those that there was no difference specifically, but you've already cleared that up. Thanks. Now are there any that you consider snake oil? No need to out them if you don't feel like it, just want your view on it.

@Ittaku,

 

I prefer not to use the expression snake oil as it has been used against me in the past as a put down.  I considered it an insult and I am entitled as is everyone else to respectfully express my opinion and my experiences.  Mind you if you were to find a couple of my very early posts on SNA I probably transgressed with some words I used.  The person I was responding to was banned for awhile for things he was saying.  I digress.

You may note that I have used the words questionable value.  There are many things that would come into that category.  Things that do not do anything for me.  I would have to look in the boxes in my workshop to jog the memory.

One that comes to mind that may be of topical interest to you are the original Mad Scientist Black Discus.  I could not say that they did anything for me.  So, I ordered the latest Nano sample versions based purely upon curiosity and the insignificant cost.  I definitely had minimal expectations and was very surprised at the outcome for me .

Another one of questionable value for me would be hiend fuses and especially the matter of directionality.  I can accept that there may be for some a benefit.  Some isolation springs work and some do not.  I adore the various colours of crystals and their geometry.    I have quite a few crystals such as smoky quartz near my system but I am not aware at all if they do any thing for my listening outcome.   They look good though.

 

The original screws holding the drivers in speakers were brass because they were supposedly superior to steel.  Now there are copper at $2 each because they are supposedly better again.  I do not know whether there is a benefit  but they look really good.

 

John

[Guest Muon N']

I went from the normal screws in my ML-1's to the Brass when Mike sent some out for me back then, and there was a noticeable improvement in clarity, small but more than so slight it might have been questionable. correct torque is important with the screws. It's not difficult to understand the physics with this change.

 

I tried the original Black Discus, and initially thought a very slight difference, but considering it over time I could not say it was actually there and was questionable (they are in a box around here somewhere). I tried the glass tube samples from the same supplier and didn't find any difference with those, I haven't tried the Nano's.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Muon N'

[Assisi]

On 16/05/2019 at 11:08 PM, Muon N' said:

I went from the normal screws in my ML-1's to the Brass when Mike sent some out for me back then, and there was a noticeable improvement in clarity, small but more than so slight it might have been questionable. correct torque is important with the screws. It's not difficult to understand the physics with this change.

 

I tried the original Black Discus, and initially thought a very slight difference, but considering it over time I could not say it was actually there and was questionable (they are in a box around here somewhere). I tried the glass tube samples from the same supplier and didn't find any difference with those, I haven't tried the Nano's.

@Muon N',

 

The matter of the speaker drivers and screws goes back about 8 years when Mike was building my speakers.  I had read about the use of brass and requested brass.  Mike was trialling brass at the time.  As well, my overall system was definitely of a lesser quality then than what it is now.  Also, my listening experience ability has developed over time.  So, the speakers came with brass and then there was copper that may have made a difference but I didn’t perceive a benefit probably because of the two factors above.  I might now?

Also, I have had the original discus and the tubes for some time.  They may or may not have been beneficial.  I may not have been at a level as I consider that I am now to discern a benefit.  I consider that I am learning and improving as I go along the audio path to better listening.

John

[Guest Muon N']

17 hours ago, Assisi said:

The matter of the speaker drivers and screws goes back about 8 years when Mike was building my speakers.  I had read about the use of brass and requested brass.  Mike was trialling brass at the time.  As well, my overall system was definitely of a lesser quality then than what it is now.  Also, my listening experience ability has developed over time.  So, the speakers came with brass and then there was copper that may have made a difference but I didn’t perceive a benefit probably because of the two factors above.  I might now?

I had considered the copper ones after reading Mike's move to them, but never got round to it myself so haven't experienced the copper, and am these days inactive as is my system. I just help the odd friend with their systems now and that is ending soon too.

[Assisi]

2 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

I had considered the copper ones after reading Mike's move to them, but never got round to it myself so haven't experienced the copper, and am these days inactive as is my system. I just help the odd friend with their systems now and that is ending soon too.

The subtle colouring of the copper is more pleasing to the eye than the brightness of the brass as my speakers are wood.  As well they are soft and care is required getting the correct torque setting with out damaging them.

John

[Darren69]

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hi-end-munich-2019/68351/12

 

I love the video.

[Irek]

 

Anybody need some boosters?  

[STROP]

5 hours ago, Darren69 said:

I love the video

Me too, but could someone explain the meaning of this terminology ...

 

Incorporating Nordost's QPOINT Resonance Synchronizer into your system will result in dramatic sonic effects, including enhanced coherency, greater dynamic range, more fluid musical expression, and greater space and ambiance in musical reproduction.

 

 

[Irek]

8 hours ago, STROP said:

Me too, but could someone explain the meaning of this terminology ...

 

Incorporating Nordost's QPOINT Resonance Synchronizer into your system will result in dramatic sonic effects, including enhanced coherency, greater dynamic range, more fluid musical expression, and greater space and ambiance in musical reproduction.

 

 

It means our snake oil is great and we would like you to buy as much as you can. 

[HypnoToad]

On 19/05/2019 at 1:08 AM, Irek said:

 

Anybody need some boosters?  

 

Are they better than these?

 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-25-40mm-plastic-reinforcing-bar-chair-20-pack_p1090275

[cyclingsteve]

9 minutes ago, HypnoToad said:

 

Are they better than these?

 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-25-40mm-plastic-reinforcing-bar-chair-20-pack_p1090275

Dont know but thanks for the link ....back to Bunnings I go.☺

[HypnoToad]

2 minutes ago, cyclingsteve said:

Dont know but thanks for the link ....back to Bunnings I go.☺

 

And if you have any left over you can put in that slab for the new BBQ.

[soundbyte]

1 minute ago, cyclingsteve said:

Dont know but thanks for the link ....back to Bunnings I go

Don't forget to pick up something to tie the cables down, O rings in the video specially looped.

 

Lots of other types will most likely be available, so it might be worth looking at other Plastic Reinforcing Bar Chairs that may have better stabilisation as well as some tie down locations for the cables.

 

Let us know how it goes.