DEQX anybody?

[davewantsmoore]

If you were looking for a straight "room correction" tool, then I would have gone with Dirac Live.

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, Mickstuh said:

Yes the DEQX is an extraordinary instrument. And yes @Mike13I found that the reaction of different people to hearing music at my place with/without the DEQX to vary wildly. Really wildly. To the extent that one friend in particular never wanted to hear it, while another could not believe that I was selling the unit, he thought the improvement was so great. Sometimes I preferred it in, sometimes not.  With some music, by clearing up the reflections in the room and of course time alignment of the speakers, it made the soundstage so much bigger and better, with better delineation of all the instruments. It was not the lifting of the veil but more lifting a blanket off the music. Other times the soundstage got bigger, but by no means better. And sometimes it could sound harsh.

That is unusual that room correction works for some tracks but not others.  Something wrong...

1 hour ago, Mickstuh said:

Of course, thats not to say the DEQX sounds harsh - only my implementation on my room on some music to my ears. It's a question of what you get it to do. A tool, as said above.

And it is one of those things where the more time you put into it the more you can get out of it. It's capacity for tweaking the sound is endless. It is definitely demanding. To make it really work you have to put time in. 

It is concern that DEQX is a tool which requires lots of time and effort and deep expertise to use.

7 hours ago, Mike13 said:

I integrated the subs using REW to measure the rook and a program called MSO (multi sub optimiser) and the wise council of @Snoopy8. He is an IT professional and yesterday warned me of the complexity of setting up DEQX, right after I bought it. I find REW and MSO pretty time consuming and I’m alright with computers. 

REW & MSO will appear easy after DEQX...

[Mickstuh]

Hi @Snoopy8. I'm surprised that you way something is "wrong". If you mean further refinement of the settings would/could/should  result in liking the unit across the board all the time, sure. But I'm not it's that simple. And the play of subjectivity cant be ruled out. As @Mike13 said above, we listened to the same things today and our preferences differed. Cheers. 

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, Mickstuh said:

I'm surprised that you way something is "wrong".

Often, if you apply "the wrong" EQ to a speaker .....  that EQ can sound really good on tracks that happened to need it (or "not, not need it")  .... but on other tracks, it sounds "bad".

 

It can be a sign that the EQ isn't really fixing any speaker or room issue - as it would likely sound like an improvement on all music.

[Mickstuh]

Thanks @davewantsmoore I see your logic, it makes sense. Also I like your point and emphasis that it can (but need not) point to a room correction profile that's not quite right. And that's the thing with the deqx: you can go on getting it righter and righter for a long time. Which need not be a bad thing. And again, the quest to, for example, iron out a bump here can create an unexpected bulge over there. As much as the theory is to achieve a perfectly flat response, the practice inevitably involves compromise, not to mention trial and error. That much is clear by the fact you can't get it perfectly right first time. (And there's no accounting for taste, like a preference for clarity over all else, or soundstage over all sense, or fast, deep bass over all else etc...) It's not simple maths (as I'm sure you know already). Cheers. 

 

[Mickstuh]

In answer to the OP's original question – I think the best answer is actually the overall thread, which has thrown up a variety of opinions and experiences. That's the nature of the deqx. Partly because it can do so much. 

But as you say, it is also a dac and a preamp. What I'm happy to say for certain is that just as a dac and preamp (forgetting all the other things it does), it's good. Very good even. Dead silent, which I really value. And as a combined dac/preamp I think its good value at used prices. 

And I feel confident saying (repeating even) that to get the best out of it, you have to put in time with it. 

[almikel]

On 08/05/2019 at 9:58 PM, Mickstuh said:

And as a combined dac/preamp I think its good value at used prices. 

 

if using it as a DAC + preamp + speaker correction + room correction I think they're good value new also  - In my experience, Alan will do better than rec retail.

 

On 08/05/2019 at 9:58 PM, Mickstuh said:

And I feel confident saying (repeating even) that to get the best out of it, you have to put in time with it. 

Agreed - I'm pretty comfortable driving mine now (I run double DEQX), and my setup hasn't changed in a year or so - there's a bit of re-learning required if I have to do major re-config... 

I've always run my DEQX as  fully active, with double DEQX it's 3 way active mains + single sub.

In a room with plenty of absorption and the bass reasonably controlled the sound is awesome.

The only thing I change is the EQ on the remote - and I muck with this often - EQ on the remote is fantastic - a bit brittle in the top end, dial the treble back, great clean bass, turn it up a smidge.

 

Starting from scratch I'd use the DEQX remote tuning service, or if you're lucky have Alan tune it in person - but pay attention and learn how to drive it during that process...

 

...there's also enough people on SNA that have DEQX experience that can assist along the way.

 

cheers

Mike

[Mike13]

I read the manual over the weekend. It’s similar to a self taught course on how to use a new piece of software. 

 

The first 70 pages or so are fairly easy to understand. That gets your measurements of the speakers done.

 

Then you have to fix the speakers themselves before the room. One confusing part is that it doesn’t get you to measure the woofer in a 3 way speaker. You do the tweeter and mid (place mic in between), you do the subs, but no speaker woofer. Does anyone know why not?

 

The room measurement seems fairly straight forward. Up to here it is pretty well written.

 

The next parts I found really confusing. They are about sub integration and room eq. First impression is that there is a lot of assumed knowledge (theory and terminology). There is an automated part, but then you are expected to be able to adjust it manually.

 

I’m going to see if I can measure and correct tomorrow.

 

I don’t know why they can’t have an Audessey  like system where you put the mic in place, press a button and measures, corrects and uploads the correction itself.

[gat474]

9 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

I read the manual over the weekend. It’s similar to a self taught course on how to use a new piece of software. 

 

The first 70 pages or so are fairly easy to understand. That gets your measurements of the speakers done.

 

Then you have to fix the speakers themselves before the room. One confusing part is that it doesn’t get you to measure the woofer in a 3 way speaker. You do the tweeter and mid (place mic in between), you do the subs, but no speaker woofer. Does anyone know why not?

 

The room measurement seems fairly straight forward. Up to here it is pretty well written.

 

The next parts I found really confusing. They are about sub integration and room eq. First impression is that there is a lot of assumed knowledge (theory and terminology). There is an automated part, but then you are expected to be able to adjust it manually.

 

I’m going to see if I can measure and correct tomorrow.

 

I don’t know why they can’t have an Audessey  like system where you put the mic in place, press a button and measures, corrects and uploads the correction itself.

I've tackled the DEQX system a couple of times now.  I found it hard to get a handle on but eventually was good enough at the basics to get me through.  Re the woofer and subwoofer.  The DEQX will only measure up to three way speakers.   If you have a three way treat the woofer as a woofer and not a sub-woofer.   Ultimately you can contact DEQX and speak to them getting them to do the measurements for you remotely.   They can log into your computer and speak to you on the phone at the same time.  The tell you what to do and where to put the mic and then they do all of the measurements and adjustments and save you the brain work.   The guys at DEQX are extremely approachable and understand that not everyone gets the software.

[Mike13]

@gat474 thanks, I think I’ll be able to get it! 

 

It says: 

“Position the microphone at a height midway between the centers of the midrange (or midwoofer) and tweeter drivers.”

 

It doesn’t mention that you should measure the mains woofer, only the external subwoofer behind it. I’ll give them a buzz to clarify. 

 

[gat474]

So, I’d just place it in front of the woofers. I only ever did a two way and sub but all measurements I did was with drivers in front of the drivers. Also, place lots of blankets on the floor in front of the speakers and this will be a reasonable alternative to lugging the speakers outside.

[Mike13]

2 hours ago, gat474 said:

So, I’d just place it in front of the woofers. I only ever did a two way and sub but all measurements I did was with drivers in front of the drivers. Also, place lots of blankets on the floor in front of the speakers

Yes. Thanks for that, that’s my interpretation too. Blankets is a good tip. I’ll put some absorbers around it too. 

[gat474]

Blankets is what deqx have you do when they do the remote tube service.

I enjoyed my time with deqx, really powerful tool and for digital only systems work a treat.

[Satanica]

19 hours ago, Mike13 said:

I don’t know why they can’t have an Audessey  like system where you put the mic in place, press a button and measures, corrects and uploads the correction itself.

There's an "Auto EQ" button in the software that will pretty much do that after the room measurement is done.

 

And you don't need to upload any corrections as they are applied in real time.

It's awesome to be able to adjust EQ with your computer mouse in a graphical UI while music is playing to hear the immediate affect.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Satanica

[almikel]

 

 

18 hours ago, Mike13 said:

It says: 

“Position the microphone at a height midway between the centers of the midrange (or midwoofer) and tweeter drivers.”

 

It doesn’t mention that you should measure the mains woofer, only the external subwoofer behind it.

If doing a speaker measurement (and later a correction based on that measurement), leave the microphone on the same place for all 3 drivers.

That way DEQX can sort out time alignment between all 3 drivers in the single speaker.

 

If it's practical, take the speaker outside and measure.

Otherwise bring the speaker into the middle of the room - you want the speaker and microphone as far from all boundaries as possible.

In the past I've put speakers on top of ladders in the back yard, but the measurements I'm using now were from Alan's roadtrip to Brisbane/Sunshine Coast done at @Listener's place

I can't replicate this at home, so I use this measurement

 

I've found after quite a few measurements that my left and right speakers measure very close to each other - and I apply correction to both speakers based on the measurement from just one - saves time and dragging more speakers outside than necessary....but measure them both first to confirm they measure the same.

 

cheers

Mike

 

[Stump]

3 hours ago, almikel said:

 

 

If doing a speaker measurement (and later a correction based on that measurement), leave the microphone on the same place for all 3 drivers.

That way DEQX can sort out time alignment between all 3 drivers in the single speaker.

 

If it's practical, take the speaker outside and measure.

Otherwise bring the speaker into the middle of the room - you want the speaker and microphone as far from all boundaries as possible.

In the past I've put speakers on top of ladders in the back yard, but the measurements I'm using now were from Alan's roadtrip to Brisbane/Sunshine Coast done at @Listener's place

 

 

I've found after quite a few measurements that my left and right speakers measure very close to each other - and I apply correction to both speakers based on the measurement from just one - saves time and dragging more speakers outside than necessary....but measure them both first to confirm they measure the same.

 

cheers

Mike

 

Are you running a active system??

Stump

[Mike13]

Thanks @almikel . Advice from DEQX was to point mix at the tweeter. 

 

My speakers are too heavy to drag anywhere so I put absorbers and blankets on the floor and absorbers against the wall. 

 

Took most of the day to get just the speaker and sub measurement and corrections done. If I knew what I was doing though, it’d take an hour. 

[almikel]

Are you running a active system??
Stump

Yes, 3 way active plus sub, hence I need double Deqx

[almikel]

Thanks [mention=112425]almikel[/mention] . Advice from DEQX was to point mix at the tweeter. 
 
My speakers are too heavy to drag anywhere so I put absorbers and blankets on the floor and absorbers against the wall. 
 
Took most of the day to get just the speaker and sub measurement and corrections done. If I knew what I was doing though, it’d take an hour. 

I was surprised at the post above that mentioned mid way between tweeter and mid - I’ve always understood in line with tweeter is best.

I have lost days on occasion with mucking with Deqx

Mike

[davewantsmoore]

14 minutes ago, almikel said:

between tweeter and mid

 

There's no right or wrong answer with this.... just being aware of the consequences of doing whatever you do.

[Stump]

22 minutes ago, almikel said:

Yes, 3 way active plus sub, hence I need double Deqx

I have a DEQX HDP-5 . My fingers will be crossed getting it to make my active  Horn and  Tube Amp system running sweet.I understand the DEQX can save a number of profiles .I since realize I will have warm up and tube issues along the way so will also consider a DEQX 3way AMP for more regular use(and Summer)

Stump

[Mike13]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 3:52 PM, Satanica said:

There's an "Auto EQ" button in the software that will pretty much do that after the room measurement is done.

 

And you don't need to upload any corrections as they are applied in real time.

It's awesome to be able to adjust EQ with your computer mouse in a graphical UI while music is playing to hear the immediate affect.

There is an auto EQ, but the steps before are complicated and require a LOT of mucking around.

[Mike13]

Update: Massive improvement in bass and detail 

 

Day 1 I did the speaker measurement and correction. A lot of mucking around trying to install the right drivers, get a missing calibration file for my mic, update firmware.

 

Days 2 and 3 I did the room measurements. I found very little difference in measurement doing things like covering coffee tables, moving bass traps, putting absorbers at reflection point (that one surprised me).

 

There is a part where you have to manually calculate timing differences between speakers and subs, and also do a manual calc for something else. The instructions for this could be improved.

 

I got to the end of it, uploaded everything and played a song, with low confidence it would do anything...

 

Happy to say I was very wrong. I've switched back and forth between using subs (my two Rel's don't go as low as the speakers, but there are other reasons for using them). The bass sounds great and what I really notice is the detail and clarity (I suppose that came from cleaning up the bass). Massive improvement!

[Mike13]

One thing that I need to get working is the USB in. At the moment I have an SMS 200 into a Chord Qutest and into the DEQX so I assume that's the double conversion that is a big 'no no'.

 

I will also go back to trying to integrate with my mini-DSP and Multi Sub Optimiser for comparison as that will allow me to use the Elektra pre and the Chord DAC.

 

The components in the DEQX are also going to be better than the mini-DSP, though I was surprised when I looked at the inside of the DEQX and saw a vast expanse of nothing!

 

Even at low volumes this sounds excellent. Very impressed.

[Satanica]

1 hour ago, Mike13 said:

There is an auto EQ, but the steps before are complicated and require a LOT of mucking around.

I won't disagree. You've done the in room subwoofer time alignement?

 

1 hour ago, Mike13 said:

One thing that I need to get working is the USB in. At the moment I have an SMS 200 into a Chord Qutest and into the DEQX so I assume that's the double conversion that is a big 'no no'.

Yeah, there's no point running analog into DEQX if you can keep it all digital.

 

1 hour ago, Mike13 said:

The components in the DEQX are also going to be better than the mini-DSP, though I was surprised when I looked at the inside of the DEQX and saw a vast expanse of nothing!

I use both a DEQX and a mini-DSP for a three way plus subs.

 

1 hour ago, Mike13 said:

Even at low volumes this sounds excellent. Very impressed.

Good!