Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Javs

Javs' Theatre - Initial Thoughts and Ideas

Recommended Posts

41 minutes ago, Zinzan said:

 green glue vs quiet glue history.  

LOL. He had it out on SNA with Ted White. I can't find the thread - it got pretty hostile. Talk about backflip....well better late than never

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

LOL. He had it out on SNA with Ted White. I can't find the thread - it got pretty hostile. Talk about backflip....well better late than never

its all still there can just search for ted white content :) anyways no point digging up old baggage. but if looking its all still there :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/05/2019 at 10:09 AM, Javs said:

The depth of the void is about 55cm. I don't see in your post where they put a limit on that?

Also. There is a hard wall behind it, if there is nothing there, it's going to reflect, if there is something there and it goes through 1ft or so then reflects, I don't get the issue here? This is similar to superchunk bass traps in the corners, the depth is relatively similar ?

By having something there I end up with absorbtion in some way rather than none at all.

Intuition tells us that if a thick absorber is better and density helps, then we want more of both. But it's slightly more complex. For any given absorber, there is a point where it becomes thicker than optimal and this effect varies with frequency. You can end up with an absorber that might perform poorly in either bass, low midrange or even both, in comparison to one with less material and a smarter design. The worst case scenario (aside from doing nothing at all), is a very high density absorber filling the entire area.

 

There isn't an easy to define limit here because there are several variables.

 

If there is no front reflective baffle, it's not a baffle wall but rather a very large absorber. Both are very desirable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those of you who have done clip and channel rooms.... Do you remember the specs on the furring channels used? Namely the channel height.

 

I found these 237 clips from Rondo, which are identical to IB1 clips from overseas.  Only $0.90c each. They perform very nearly as good as Whisper clips all said and done, and they are about 8x cheaper per clip... Deep in the documentation from Rondo they say these can be used for clip and channel in walls for acoustic purposes, and studying the images, they appear to be totally identical to the overseas version of the IB1.

 

IB-1 Testing vs Whisper Clips and others.

 

23838730df9ff4fd2fb79cd12fa8b3b7.png

 

Thats without Green Glue mind you, this is with Green Glue:

 

282e70314bc9b211c8968a54aefec489.png

 

Now this clip can use either the Rondo 308 or 129 furring channel. The 308 is only 16mm high, and the 129 is 26mm high.

 

In the US, they tell you to use 22mm high furring channel, which is 25 guage. Also, does anybody know what gauge these furring channels are?

 

For space concerns, I wouldn mind using the 16mm channel, but if its quite a bit less effective than the 26mm (129) then obviously I would use that.

 

Thoughts?

 

The clip

large_1171_RON237.jpg

 

The US 237 Clip which is actually the reccomended by the AVS guys and Soundproofingcompany.com for the fact that its performance/cost ratio is excellent.

 

YyxyQa3.jpg

 

The AU Furring specs.

 

fBjZNQr.jpg

 

https://www.networkbuilding.com.au/product_direct-fixing-clips_237-clip-anchor-furring-channel-direct-fix-to-concrete_1171.html

 

https://www.networkbuilding.com.au/product_furring-channel-and-battens_308-furring-channel-16mm-6000mm_1147.html

 

https://www.networkbuilding.com.au/product_furring-channel-and-battens_129-furring-channel-28mm-3600mm_1136.html

 

The STWC Clip is 8x the price as the 237... And identical to the RSIC Clip in the above testing plots. Not worth 8x the price...

 

https://www.networkbuilding.com.au/product_sound-isolation-products_stwc-wall-and-ceiling-sound-isolation-assy-for-fc-screw-fix_4631.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


If memory serves me correctly, the thicker (taller) channel has a higher weight carrying capacity? Its been ages since I've used that, but I'm pretty sure I've only used the larger stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 03/05/2019 at 11:48 AM, Javs said:

My only other concern which the builders probably wont get is I need to build a pretty hectic AC In / Out system and deadvent thing, that needs to be completely soundproof too.

 

https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing_101/the-dead-vent

That dead-vent design has always confused me. Is a dead-vent required when you have the AC supply/return leading directly to/from the AC system? I imagine that if I build a theatre with 2 supply ducts coming from the AC system (in its own zone) to the front of the room and 2 return ducts leading back to the AC system in the back of the room, that I don't require dead-vents. Is that correct?

 

Edit: Thinking about it, I suppose if the AC is not on you'd need at least 2 vents (one out, one in) to exchange air regardless, as it'll be so air tight? 

 

Aren't they only required when the supply/return is in an adjacent room and the air needs to be exchanged with that room through the vents? I suppose the dead-vent method would be more sound proof as the sound is less likely to get into the AC ducts to the rest of the house? Would love to know a bit more about your plan here.

Edited by br0d0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Regarding AV racks this is the one I'm thinking of getting: https://www.snapav.com/shop/en/snapav/strong-trade%3B-fs-series-rack-system-with-dc-fans-sr-fs-system-dc

It only has 18.25" usable depth so won't fit the XPA-7 by the looks. That's a beast!

 

Wanted a Middle Atlantic RCS but they are more expensive and harder to get it seems.

Edit: they do have a usable depth of 20.1" apparently but will cost ~$3.5K here: https://www.middleatlantic.com/products/racks-enclosures/stand-alone-floor-standing-enclosures/essex-rcs-series-pre-configured-rack-system/ircs-4224.aspx

 

Edited by br0d0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That dead-vent design has always confused me. Is a dead-vent required when you have the AC supply/return leading directly to/from the AC system? I imagine that if I build a theatre with 2 supply ducts coming from the AC system (in its own zone) to the front of the room and 2 return ducts leading back to the AC system in the back of the room, that I don't require dead-vents. Is that correct?
 
Edit: Thinking about it, I suppose if the AC is not on you'd need at least 2 vents (one out, one in) to exchange air regardless, as it'll be so air tight? 
 
Aren't they only required when the supply/return is in an adjacent room and the air needs to be exchanged with that room through the vents? I suppose the dead-vent method would be more sound proof as the sound is less likely to get into the AC ducts to the rest of the house? Would love to know a bit more about your plan here.
The dead vent helps stop sound traveling back through the AC system and exiting into every other room in the house.

I will need to do something to address that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Regarding AV racks this is the one I'm thinking of getting: https://www.snapav.com/shop/en/snapav/strong-trade%3B-fs-series-rack-system-with-dc-fans-sr-fs-system-dc
It only has 18.25" usable depth so won't fit the XPA-7 by the looks. That's a beast!
 
Wanted a Middle Atlantic RCS but they are more expensive and harder to get it seems.
Edit: they do have a usable depth of 20.1" apparently but will cost ~$3.5K here: https://www.middleatlantic.com/products/racks-enclosures/stand-alone-floor-standing-enclosures/essex-rcs-series-pre-configured-rack-system/ircs-4224.aspx
 
This one looks good for me.

https://www.4cabling.com.au/42ru-600mm-wide-x-800mm-deep-server-rack.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, br0d0 said:

That dead-vent design has always confused me. Is a dead-vent required when you have the AC supply/return leading directly to/from the AC system? I imagine that if I build a theatre with 2 supply ducts coming from the AC system (in its own zone) to the front of the room and 2 return ducts leading back to the AC system in the back of the room, that I don't require dead-vents. Is that correct?

 

Edit: Thinking about it, I suppose if the AC is not on you'd need at least 2 vents (one out, one in) to exchange air regardless, as it'll be so air tight? 

 

Aren't they only required when the supply/return is in an adjacent room and the air needs to be exchanged with that room through the vents? I suppose the dead-vent method would be more sound proof as the sound is less likely to get into the AC ducts to the rest of the house? Would love to know a bit more about your plan here.

In my opinion, using an energy recover ventilator 24/7 is the gold standard. That will have its own supplies and return. I put the return in the hush box/wherever the projector vent is so that has its own dedicated exhaust. Airchange make a good one

 

Regarding dead vents....again, gold standard is to have every vent (supplies and returns) with one. However, you can just run larger, longer flex duct and run it through soffits and that is pretty much just as good. Basically turn the soffit into the dead vent of sorts. 2 lays of GG etc etc

 

I didn't have the room for that in my last room, so I made custom ducts that straddled the isolated ceiling joists. They were ply, then GG, then gyprock, then bitkote, then 25mm HD polyester, then 3mil plastic, then 25mm HD polyester. You couldn't hear the fan/machine noise with your head in the duct, let alone at the seating position.....sort of unnecessary.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so the volume builder just got back to me. It's now certain they can't do any of the soundproofing I want during the house construction, I'm going to have to have them drywall the room with one layer and handover the house like that, and then I will need to rip it down and start over.

Hmm, that's not really a big deal when I sit there and think about it, surely a couple grand wasted there, but reading some of the theatres on this forum I can see that to really do it right I kinda need total oversight. Which I suppose is saving me from potential headache by them doing it wrong in the first place.

Also they are not keen on the AC return since the theatre is downstairs and the house return is upstairs, so will probably have to sort something else there too, perhaps I can draw in fresh air from adjoining room, the study, or the hallway for eg.

First and foremost this is our first house, so priority one is actually getting the house built in the first place, so I gotta work with what I've got. I don't really have another 200 grand to go with a custom house builder to get the same sized house.

All good, moving on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Javs said:

 I'm going to have to have them drywall the room with one layer and handover the house like that,

Builders can be such dicks at times......I recall something similar. I had to fight tooth and nail to get two layers of gyprock for our master bedroom...

 

Presumably they wont leave that room entirely bare? PITA ripping it down

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Builders can be such dicks at times......I recall something similar. I had to fight tooth and nail to get two layers of gyprock for our master bedroom...
 
Presumably they wont leave that room entirely bare? PITA ripping it down
 
Yeah they have to drywall it. Though I'm going to try and make sure they don't mud and tape it. If I can see the screw holes it should be a bit easier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Javs said:
11 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:
Builders can be such dicks at times......I recall something similar. I had to fight tooth and nail to get two layers of gyprock for our master bedroom...
 
Presumably they wont leave that room entirely bare? PITA ripping it down
 

Yeah they have to drywall it. Though I'm going to try and make sure they don't mud and tape it. If I can see the screw holes it should be a bit easier

Don't worry about that, its really easy to take it out. Just messy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Javs said:

Ok so the volume builder just got back to me. It's now certain they can't do any of the soundproofing I want during the house construction, I'm going to have to have them drywall the room with one layer and handover the house like that, and then I will need to rip it down and start over.

Hmm, that's not really a big deal when I sit there and think about it, surely a couple grand wasted there, but reading some of the theatres on this forum I can see that to really do it right I kinda need total oversight. Which I suppose is saving me from potential headache by them doing it wrong in the first place.

Also they are not keen on the AC return since the theatre is downstairs and the house return is upstairs, so will probably have to sort something else there too, perhaps I can draw in fresh air from adjoining room, the study, or the hallway for eg.

First and foremost this is our first house, so priority one is actually getting the house built in the first place, so I gotta work with what I've got. I don't really have another 200 grand to go with a custom house builder to get the same sized house.

All good, moving on!

Hi Javs

 

I don't know if its an option but have you considered a mini-split for the A/C? I'm still researching my HT design and at the moment I'm thinking that could be an option (I was going to post to the forums for people's thoughts 😃). The unit I'm looking at is the Daikin US7 because its one of the few that I've found that can draw fresh air in from outside rather than just circulate a closed system. And, both the 2.5kW and 3.5kW units only run at 19dB in quiet mode. Just a thought...

 

Cheers, Mike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Hi Javs
 
I don't know if its an option but have you considered a mini-split for the A/C? I'm still researching my HT design and at the moment I'm thinking that could be an option (I was going to post to the forums for people's thoughts ). The unit I'm looking at is the Daikin US7 because its one of the few that I've found that can draw fresh air in from outside rather than just circulate a closed system. And, both the 2.5kW and 3.5kW units only run at 19dB in quiet mode. Just a thought...
 
Cheers, Mike.


Hey Mike.

Not really keen on a minisplit hey, the AC we are installing into the house is pretty hectic, really don't want to double dip on that.

There is no problem getting a supply there, I will just have to figure out the return, or a way to get old air out, the AC will always be on when we are in there. I'll have a think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...