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Ozflyer

Improve midrange vocals

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On 27/04/2019 at 2:06 PM, pond44 said:

Yep, first up is to move your speakers around. Don’t forget to mark the floor where the speakers are now, then try new positions, that part is free.

Yep maybe a room or placement within the room issue.  At least worth a try moving the speakers around.  Will only cost your time

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Posted (edited)

these are some excerpts from reviews,

In room
Bi-wire connected with Crystal Cable Speak Reference cables, the Rubicon’s 8 were placed on damped rubber feet rather than 8mm spikes also included, both to save my wooden floor and decouple the cabinet for optimum bass.  The best position in my room is 2.3m apart with a listening distance of almost three meters. The space between the back of the cabinet and the rear wall was only 35cm, enough to obtain an even response with even bass. DALI speakers are designed to have the flattest response off axis, so I did not toe them in.

The CEO of DALI is very fond of Class A amplifiers with little or no feedback, which is exactly what my Audia Flight 50 is, so it should be a good match

AT A GLANCE 
Plus 
Open, airy highs
Clean, tight bass
Big, generous soundstage 
Minus 
Setup takes patience for best results
Treble can be unforgiving

 

The pride of team DALI, however, is its dome/planar tweeter combination. It’s something of a mixed bag since it can be revealing of a bright or harsh recording, particularly when played back at high volume. A prime example of this was the alarm clock cut “Time” on the rock classic Dark Side of the Moon. I suspected the speaker’s on-axis response was somewhat tipped up, which may be why the company recommends the speakers be set up to fire straight ahead, placing a centered listener well off axis. DALI confirmed this, noting that the slightly rising on-axis response aids overall dispersion and linearity when the speakers are pointing straight ahead, but can indeed be slightly bright if you're sitting directly in front of the speakers. Again, in their words: "The benefit comes when you are off axis with the speaker. While the narrow 5 degrees on axis [window] is a little brighter, the other 175 degrees is much more even and detailed than would be with a traditional design. DALI recommends either a straight ahead orientation or a very slight toe-in of less than a few degrees." (The company also recommends spiking the feet when possible, which they say can generate a smoother overall response.)

i feel the earlier MF gear to sound warmer? meatier?, hard to describe but a fuller sound

i agree with previous posts, and from the above info, placement may be the easiest place to start

Edited by wen
more info

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12 hours ago, Ittaku said:

This review is very revealing about why there isn't much midrange; there's almost a -10dB difference in the midrange compared to the peaks in bass and treble!

Yep. That quasi anechoic response "Figure 5" shows a very broad dip throughout the midrange area. This is why the reviews of this speaker generally show excellent favouritism towards bass and treble areas and is what Dali were probably going for. Unfortunately this is at the demise of midrange. This is similar to a loudness button that has been inbuilt into the speaker design and would sound better at lower volume levels . 

315DAR8fig05.jpg

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Are you running Roon thru your bluesound? It has HEAPS of DSP/Eq settings which are frankly beyond my knowledge base, but I'm sure some use of those settings by someone that knows what they are doing would be the easiest answer.

 

However I also agree even a moderately priced DAC will probably get you better clarity as well. I have heard Chord DACs are a bit lean sounding so maybe not the best to try. I've found Audiolab DACs to be excellent but just like the reputation of Chord, I found mine a bit on the lean side, but excellent for detail.

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@Ozflyer Looks like your bluesond product has basic bass/treble equalizer functionality. As this is midrange deficiency is a speaker issue, The cheapest option is to use an equaliser to increase the midrange, or in your case decrease the bass and treble a bit to make the mids more prominent. 

     Changing cables and dacs etc will change the sonic signature and quality of sound you hear and buying a DAC with a greater midrange signature will help "to an extent" and I hope that it does if you choose this path.

This is a link on how to use the Tone control funtion of bluesound products https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/204636618

 

 

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All .... Thanks for the information, recommendations and suggestions.

 

I replaced my atlas equator interconnect with the VDH 3T Valley, and moved the speakers 10cm more forward, with them now  30cms from the wall.

 

As a result, I have a much improved midrange and happy with the output.

 

i could not believe that a change of interconnect and nett 10cm increase in distance from the wall could have on the sound output.

 

Truly appreciate all your feedback,  but will continue to experiment 😀

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Posted (edited)

“”

Edited by BATMAQN
Edited

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49 minutes ago, Ozflyer said:

All .... Thanks for the information, recommendations and suggestions.

 

I replaced my atlas equator interconnect with the VDH 3T Valley, and moved the speakers 10cm more forward, with them now  30cms from the wall.

 

As a result, I have a much improved midrange and happy with the output.

 

i could not believe that a change of interconnect and nett 10cm increase in distance from the wall could have on the sound output.

 

Truly appreciate all your feedback,  but will continue to experiment 😀

Thats good to hear. It seems you were getting too much room boundary/gain reinforcement. It is always a good idea to place a rear ported speaker a minimum of 30-50cm from walls. Of course this is room/speaker/WAF dependent so there are always compromises. 

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