Quality Subs

[Ittaku]

You want small but perfect subs, Magico is about to release something but it's gonna hurt like passing a kidney stone buying a pair of these:

Probably going to cost $25k AUD to buy a pair of these.

[joz]

18 hours ago, Red Spade Audio said:

The size of the drivers tells you very little about the sound quality of the sub. Neither the size nor the moving mass are good predictors of any subjective quality that audiophiles are looking for.

 

Myths abound here and quite often it's because they are very often quite intuitive - they feel like they should be true!

 

My experience in building, testing and integrating many different subs over the years suggests two things that contradict expectations:

 

1. Subs that appear radically different can be made to sound near identical within their linear range.

 

An extreme example might be an open baffle sub vs a huge horn sub. Most of the differences can be removed with calibration.

 

2. Larger and heavier subs are more likely to perform better in any measure, whether subjective or objective.

 

Yes, it sounds like a contradiction to my previous point! However, this has been my experience generally. Let's suppose we could compare a pair of sealed subs, using drivers from the same range. One is 8" sealed, the other is 18" sealed. Cabinets equally solid. Placed in the same position. Calibrated so they have the same frequency response. Operating at exactly the same level - let's say 90 dB which both could handle. I'd expect the bigger sub to sound cleaner and more accurate but it would be a subtle difference. It's only when you move beyond the limits of the smaller sub that they start to sound very different. The extra clean output of the bigger sub in actual use translates into an experience of greater authority and punch.  You find yourself turning it up more, without realising. It doesn't sound louder, Instead, it feels more full, powerful and clean. This is why many audiophiles would actually be well served with a sub that is bigger than they think they need.

 

When it comes to the choice of a sub in terms of its size, I'd suggest you have two main things to think about. Keeping things simple, big enough to give you satisfying bass depth and output. Small enough that you can live with it in your room. Getting the balance right is a fairly personal decision.

And integration via measurements?

[SimonNo10]

That's why I went one of these and have never looked back:

 

http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power Sound Triax T-18 product page.html

 

[Neilsy]

Be interesting to see a chart on THD

That's why I went one of these and have never looked back:
 
http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power Sound Triax T-18 product page.html
 

[davewantsmoore]

21 minutes ago, Neilsy said:

Be interesting to see a chart on THD

The "CEA-2010" values are showing you the max-SPL before THD becomes too high   (different amount of THD depending on which harmonic).

[marten]

20 hours ago, Red Spade Audio said:

Let's suppose we could compare a pair of sealed subs, using drivers from the same range. One is 8" sealed, the other is 18" sealed. Cabinets equally solid. Placed in the same position.

Paul, can you relate your experience or insights into comparing the following two configurations of subwoofer, once again all other things being equal (drivers from same range, solid cabs, etc).

 

A   Sealed sub with one 18" driver

B   Sealed sub with two 12" drivers

 

The air-moving piston area of the above two subs would be very close.  Would you expect either sub to have an advantage in any respect ?

[Red Spade Audio]

3 hours ago, marten said:

Paul, can you relate your experience or insights into comparing the following two configurations of subwoofer, once again all other things being equal (drivers from same range, solid cabs, etc).

 

A   Sealed sub with one 18" driver

B   Sealed sub with two 12" drivers

 

The air-moving piston area of the above two subs would be very close.  Would you expect either sub to have an advantage in any respect ?

In that theoretical scenario, I'd say no - they should be fairly comparable, if we are just talking about performance in one position. In practice, we often find some products differ from expectations. It may be that either the 12" or the 18" in that particular range perform better, for reasons that aren't obvious. When it comes down to specific choices, it could go either way.

 

6 hours ago, joz said:

And integration via measurements?

Definitely!

[WasM]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-editors-choice-awards-subwoofers/ 

[almikel]

Late to this thread, but on a quick scan I didn't see it discussed...

On 26/04/2019 at 11:55 PM, kryten2001 said:

My preference is for very punchy non boomy bass with stacks of headroom so I can simply dial in extra as I need it, for when it's appropriate. My preference isn't for super low bass, rather super punchy (you need to feel it!).

super punchy bass that kicks you in the chest - what some call bass slam - is not sub territory, or the very top of sub territory towards lower mid bass (say 60Hz - 150Hz).

Your main speakers should be supplying most of the "hit you in the chest" bass slam, not your sub/s.

A music example would be the kick drum in Fleetwood Mac's "The Chain" from Rumours.

A great track with lots of bass slam - but the "kick in the chest" is not coming from the sub - the slam comes from the mains, with the sub adding subtle depth.

 

I'm a huge fan of good subs, but I got addicted to bass slam before I had a sub - the key for me was controlling the room's bass response below 250Hz or so.

Get that right and you can't help dialling up the bass on the remote - even without a sub (assuming your mains are up to it).

 

If the room's bass response isn't under control, then it doesn't matter how good your mains or subs are - you'll struggle to get really clean "hit you in the chest" bass - it will overhang/resonate/ring based on the room's response.

 

cheers

Mike

 

[almikel]

an interesting anecdote that relates to this...before I added my sub, my setup had loads of bass slam...

I had some friends over and we were listening to a symphonic rendition of "Fanfare for the Common Man" - I think by the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

It sounded great to me, but my colleagues felt the "lower octave" was missing something.

Weeks later after I'd added a sub we listened to the same piece again (errors in audio memory etc etc) and their response was, "that's much better"...

There'd been no/minimal change in the slam of the big kettle drums - it was the subtle depth that had got much deeper.

 

cheers

Mike