Juzbear Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Hi all, I have an early LP12, which I have had for more than 20 years, though it was at least that old when I purchased it. Like many of its ilk, it has gone through changes over the years, initially, getting a late pre-cirkus bearing and subplatter along with new springs and grommets. It grumbled along for some time with a basik plus, having not had the coin to buy an ittok at the time. It has had a number of cartridge partners, spending most of its time with a couple of generations of AT-OC9's, though it has latterly found a VdH frog to pair with. The Basik plus left the building, replaced with a Jelco 750D, which was a clear improvement. Most recently, replaced the subchassis and bearing with a Kore and Cirkus, which has been a clear improvement, clearly tightening up the bass, and making balancing the springs easier. The motor and power supply is a valhalla, and despite having considered change this, I have not as yet. This is on the cards at some time in the medium term. As a result of all this action, I have a trove of LP12 bits'n'pieces, and a turntable on a classic plinth, which I am considering replacing. The plinth itself is very early- it is afromasia with fluting on all four sides, and no corner bracing. The corners are all tight, and plinth is not warped, though it is a couple of mm out of square, which you notice when the armband is in place. On the other side of the plinth, the top plate sits evenly and tightly. I am considering doing one of a number of things, and would appreciate the advice of the forum. Ideally I would like to get a new plinth. I have seen booplinths and Harban plinths, and whilst they look (and possibly sound) amazing, I am not sure that I want to sink my cash into one at the cost of upgrading the motor in the medium term. Is anyone else aware of other reasonable options out there? I have seen a number on ebay, though new linn options from the UK seem limited by geographic sales limitations, second hand options come up from time to time, though provenance and quality is a concern, and there is a maker in Barcelona, called woodoo plinths, which looks reasonable, though reviews are lacking. The other option I am considering is bracing my own plinth, though this is not my first choice, as I would prefer to have the parts to put together a second LP12 to sell, going towards a power supply upgrade. Please help me to narrow down my choice! Cheers and thanks. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Hehe - you seem to have some conflicting requirements, Justin. AIUI: you would like to replace your current plinth, so you can use it with your 'trove' of LP12 bits'n'pieces to create another LP12 which you can sell on? but you feel your current LP12 could do with a new motor - and speed controller - which, at 40 years old, I would probably agree with you. And buying a new plinth will conflict with this purchase? Not sure I can help you much with this decision, apart from saying: the fact that your top-plate sits well on your Afromosia plinth means that it is still OK, in spite of being slightly out-of-square. Chris Harban ('Woodsong') plinths are works of art - so they look amazing ... and sound good. Booply looks intriguing - though I've never read a direct shootout between it and Harban plinths, in terms of SQ. after 40 years of use, I suggest, yes, a new motor will make your LP12 sound better. And a new motor plus speed controller will probably deliver a better increase in SQ than a new plinth. but don't make the mistake of buying a Lingo! Get a Mose/Hercules ... or, if you can stretch to it, a 'Number9' (like I have). BTW, my avatar shows what I have now, after 35 years of LP12 ownerhip ... my 'SkeletaLinn'. Regards Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I’d agree with @andyr in that the motor and speed controller would give you a greater benefit. The afromosia plinths are very good. Essentially it’s a timber square. Nothing that complicated. I’ve just ordered the new Mose outboard PSU and Premotec motor for a build I’m doing from @Mober. My previous LP12 has a Hercules and it was great. If you wish to enquire about the Mose/Mober/Hercules contact Edmund on chanedmund7@netvigator.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, andyr said: BTW, my avatar shows what I have now, after 35 years of LP12 ownerhip ... my 'SkeletaLinn'. Regards Andy Andy you could have saved a lot of time and money and just gone for the very simple Kuzma Stabi. Edited April 21, 2019 by PKay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Juzbear said: though it is a couple of mm out of square The top plate appears sit nicely in the plinth indicating that the plinth is square. The LP12 arm boards seldom sit square between the top plate and the plinth frame, which is not a problem at all. If the mitre joints are still intact with no movement then there's no problem also. I don't know why people caught up thinking they must have a braced LP12 plinth? If the joints are good, the plinth is good. I've restored a dozen or so LP12 plinths and they can be fitted with corner glue blocks, which I've only done on plinths where they were completely stripped and repolished as part of the refurbishment, or the plinth was coming apart at the joints. Hifi people tend to invent problems that don't exist only to then try and solve them. If it ain't broke, it ain't broke! Consider getting your plinth repolished, braced, and possibly stained in a different colour? I've also installed IEC sockets as well to get rid of the bulky cord which takes a lot of stress off the plinth and the bottom. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 10 hours ago, PKay said: Andy you could have saved a lot of time and money and just gone for the very simple Kuzma Stabi. I certainly could've, PK. But then I would've had to worry about isolating it from my bench. And I wouldn't have 2 motors (which make the TT sound better than 1 motor ). And I would only have 1 arm. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-C Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 A new Linn plinth and a Mober dc power supply are pretty similar price wise. In terms of “bang for buck” the power supply wins by a quite margin, plus the ability to play 45rpms. Been through the same upgrade path myself. Just my 2c. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Mober PSU. Agree with the others suggesting this. That Valhalla is getting really old I'm afraid. Another option...flog yours and buy another LP12 with upgrades already done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Peter_F said: The LP12 arm boards seldom sit square between the top plate and the plinth frame, which is not a problem at all. HUH!!! If there's one area where the set up has been done by a competent tech is when the gaps are as close as you can get. He/She has spent time ensuring the adjustments have been performed correctly.....Top plate position....proper perpendicular sub mounts...motor mounts...bearing mounts...arm cable dressing etc etc all play a part and if not done correctly will result in an "off" sounding LP12... This takes time though sometimes you can get lucky and it all sort of fulls into place with adjustments here and there.....( parts tolerance depending ) Take it from one who knows....not just refurbishing plinths but fabricating His own one piece affair... Get the best plinth you can spend coin here you will not regret it... Tase 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Luc said: Another option...flog yours and buy another LP12 with upgrades already done. Agreed...make sure they are repeatable... Tase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Tasebass said: If there's one area where the set up has been done by a competent tech is when the gaps are as close as you can get. No schit Sherlock! But most I've seen are not 100% square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Peter_F said: No schit Sherlock! But most I've seen are not 100% square. They go find some....take Watson with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, Tasebass said: They go find some....take Watson with you... Despite all the hype, the LP12 is far from a precise piec of engineering, quite poor for the money actually. Even Watson will tell you that..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, Peter_F said: Despite all the hype, the LP12 is far from a precise piec of engineering, quite poor for the money actually. Even Watson will tell you that..... I'm guessing you've never worked on....or heard a Klimax one......silly money yes...but stonking performance..... ...more than welcome to have a listen... Tase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_F Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tasebass said: I'm guessing you've never worked on....or heard a Klimax one......silly money yes...but stonking performance..... ...more than welcome to have a listen... Tase. Thanks for the offer mate, and I'd be more than happy to listen if I was in the neighbourhood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzbear Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 I appreciate all the input so far, and would agree with much of it. The facts of my plinth are that it measures 1mm wider at the rear than at the front, despite having tight joins. Given the top plate fits snuggly, this means that the space around the top plate is slightly wider at the back than the front, no matter how you set it up. My suspicion is that this is more annoying to my eyes than to my ears, but it is one reason I have considered replacing the plinth. As to motor/speed controller upgrades, it is certainly on the cards, and I have considered the usual supects- Mober ac and dc, lingo, and have even checked out the number 9 website. The possibility of at least part funding motor/controller with the sale of a TT built from parts is certainly part of the rationale for looking at a new plinth. With this, along with sourcing a platter (anyone have one that they want to get rid of?), I would be well on the way. I remain interested by the woodoo plinths, as the samples appear attractive on eBay and Pinterest and the prices are attractive. Harban plinths and Booplinth are beyond me price wise. I am not sure whether the Linn supplier in Australia supplies new Linn ones- they advertise a plinth, though this is plinth, top plate, sub chassis, etc. So I am keeping an eye on our classifieds, and eBay for a linn one in good nick. (Again, let me know if you have one you want to sell!) The nice thing about all this is the LP12 is ticking along, so I can take my time. The journey is half the fun. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Juzbear said: I appreciate all the input so far, and would agree with much of it. The facts of my plinth are that it measures 1mm wider at the rear than at the front, despite having tight joins. Given the top plate fits snuggly, this means that the space around the top plate is slightly wider at the back than the front, no matter how you set it up. My suspicion is that this is more annoying to my eyes than to my ears, but it is one reason I have considered replacing the plinth. As to motor/speed controller upgrades, it is certainly on the cards, and I have considered the usual supects- Mober ac and dc, lingo, and have even checked out the number 9 website. The possibility of at least part funding motor/controller with the sale of a TT built from parts is certainly part of the rationale for looking at a new plinth. With this, along with sourcing a platter (anyone have one that they want to get rid of?), I would be well on the way. I remain interested by the woodoo plinths, as the samples appear attractive on eBay and Pinterest and the prices are attractive. Harban plinths and Booplinth are beyond me price wise. I am not sure whether the Linn supplier in Australia supplies new Linn ones- they advertise a plinth, though this is plinth, top plate, sub chassis, etc. So I am keeping an eye on our classifieds, and eBay for a linn one in good nick. (Again, let me know if you have one you want to sell!) The nice thing about all this is the LP12 is ticking along, so I can take my time. The journey is half the fun. Justin Another option, and I’ve done it myself, is to use your old plinth as a template. Find some nice wood you would like to use and make one yourself. To be honest of you supply the wood I’m sure any half decent cabinet maker could copy your current plinth and make one up for you braced for less than you’ll be ripped off on eBay. Edited April 22, 2019 by jakeyb77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Juzbear said: I am not sure whether the Linn supplier in Australia supplies new Linn ones- they advertise a plinth, though this is plinth, top plate, sub chassis, etc. Justin Hi Jb, I can well imagine the Oz Linn importer has taken the option of only importing the complete shebang - instead of just the plinth itself. So can I suggest you get in touch with Peter, at 'Cymbiosis' in the UK. He supplied me with the various components I needed for my 'SkeletaLinn', about 6 years ago, so I'm sure he'll be happy to sell you just a Linn plinth. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Tasebass said: HUH!!! If there's one area where the set up has been done by a competent tech is when the gaps are as close as you can get. He/She has spent time ensuring the adjustments have been performed correctly.....Top plate position....proper perpendicular sub mounts...motor mounts...bearing mounts...arm cable dressing etc etc all play a part and if not done correctly will result in an "off" sounding LP12... This takes time though sometimes you can get lucky and it all sort of fulls into place with adjustments here and there.....( parts tolerance depending ) Take it from one who knows....not just refurbishing plinths but fabricating His own one piece affair... Get the best plinth you can spend coin here you will not regret it... Tase That looks like a great job. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, PKay said: That looks like a great job. Well done. Thanks...sounds better than She looks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzbear Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 I have progressed through the reality of what I can afford at present, and put a new plinth on the back burner. I decided to get a trampolin and tart up the current plinth instead, and in the process of this, discovered that the glue in the back motor corner was dry, so I got a bit excited and did a partial reglue, and am installing bracing. We will see how it goes- I am finding it difficult to not have a turntable on a Saturday morning! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesla13BMW Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 @Juzbear have a look at https://lp12bits.com/ I have found his descriptions relate well to what I received and he is very helpful. Even allowed me to collect the kore when I was over there to avoid duties at this end. I like you are to do the corner bracing to avoid future loosening of the corners in the Brisbane humidity. Like you I am keeping everything I take off the LP12 I am updating, and will fit this back to a standard LP12 as much to keep a reference of what an early 80's deck is like. Some say this was the "best years" for musicality. Enjoy your journey! P.S. At least I have a tricked or RP1 to fill the void when the LP12 is being worked on :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzbear Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 19 hours ago, tesla13BMW said: @Juzbear have a look at https://lp12bits.com/ I have found his descriptions relate well to what I received and he is very helpful. Even allowed me to collect the kore when I was over there to avoid duties at this end. I like you are to do the corner bracing to avoid future loosening of the corners in the Brisbane humidity. Like you I am keeping everything I take off the LP12 I am updating, and will fit this back to a standard LP12 as much to keep a reference of what an early 80's deck is like. Some say this was the "best years" for musicality. Enjoy your journey! P.S. At least I have a tricked or RP1 to fill the void when the LP12 is being worked on Thanks for the suggestions! I did check out that site, and considered getting a plinth from them, but kind of got sidetracked. I will likely pick up some stuff from them I future- it is good to have a recommendation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzbear Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 I have completed the bracing and installed the trampolin. I am enjoying the new and improved Sondek at present, and it certainly sounds better- hopefully once the placebo effect of “new stuff” wears off the improvement will persist. It seems to sound a little bit “tighter” in the bass and instrument separation sounds very good. I had a close look at the motor- whilst is not particularly noisy- it is marked ‘74. It might be next in the firing line. So, whilst I am still dreaming of Harban plinths, the next step will be motor/controller. Justin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jakeyb77 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Look like great work! Glad you are enjoying the improvement. I’ve been keeping an eye out for a used trampoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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