Speaker woofers are moving to much

[Gryffles]

Just now, Stephenfabre said:

Yes I would for sure.if the speakers need to be isolated.
I don't feel any vibration through the floor at all though. The floor is a concrete floor with engeniered timber floating floor over it and a 3mm acoustic underlay.

I very much doubt you are getting feedback from the speakers. 

You said at the start that it happens in the run out groove where there is no sound coming from the speakers. Pretty safely say that isolation won’t fix your problem.

See if you can borrow a cart from someone and see what happens or do a bit of research and see what other people have successfully used on the project arm you have.

[Bush thug]

I very much doubt you are getting feedback from the speakers. 
You said at the start that it happens in the run out groove where there is no sound coming from the speakers. Pretty safely say that isolation won’t fix your problem.
See if you can borrow a cart from someone and see what happens or do a bit of research and see what other people have successfully used on the project arm you have.

Good call I will borrow my mates when he gets back and try that one.

[Gryffles]

1 minute ago, Stephenfabre said:

2 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

I very much doubt you are getting feedback from the speakers. 
You said at the start that it happens in the run out groove where there is no sound coming from the speakers. Pretty safely say that isolation won’t fix your problem.
See if you can borrow a cart from someone and see what happens or do a bit of research and see what other people have successfully used on the project arm you have.

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Good call I will borrow my mates when he gets back and try that one.

Good stuff. I had the same problem once and changed my phono stage......problem gone

[andyr]

2 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

Good stuff. I had the same problem once and changed my phono stage......problem gone

 

Soooo - in your case, you changed the phono stage from one that didn't employ a LF roll-off filter ... to one that did?

 

Andy

 

[Gryffles]

Just now, andyr said:

 

Soooo - in your case, you changed the phono stage from one that didn't employ a LF roll-off filter ... to one that did?

 

Andy

 

Probably the case Andy

[andyr]

4 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

Probably the case Andy

 

Which is sad ... as a LF roll-off filter will not be a 'brick wall' but - even if steep - will affect above 20Hz.

 

I suspect the OP's problem is an arm/cart resonance problem.  Not necessarily because the arm has bad damping - because my 'Univector' (UP) arm has no damping ... yet my subs (which deliver 16Hz) do not 'pump'.  And the phono stage I'm currently using (a Hagerman prototype) doesn't have a LF filter - so it would seem my cart must be well matched to my arm?

 

Andy

 

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

I'm currently using (a Hagerman prototype) doesn't have a LF filter

 

It may not have a specific low freq. filter, but maybe the coupling caps size is calculated to limit low freq. response?

 

Edit:  One hagerman ciruit I looked at is set to about 15Hz .

Edited April 2, 2019 by aussievintage

[Blade74]

Where do you live Stephenfabre?
I have a Project phono stage with selectable filter on and off you could try.

[Bush thug]

Where do you live Stephenfabre?
I have a Project phono stage with selectable filter on and off you could try.

I live in Teven nsw. Near Byron Bay. That would be awesome to try for sure.
Thanks heaps

[andyr]

7 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

It may not have a specific low freq. filter, but maybe the coupling caps size is calculated to limit low freq. response?

 

Edit:  One hagerman ciruit I looked at is set to about 15Hz .

 

Could be, av - but if it does have a too-small coupling cap (to produce a LF roll-off) ... then I shouldn't be able to hear a 16Hz organ tone?  Which I can.

 

Andy

 

[Blade74]

I live in Teven nsw. Near Byron Bay. That would be awesome to try for sure.
Thanks heaps

I was hoping you were in metro Sydney.
There may be someone nearby that could lend you a phono stage to test the subsonic filter.

[Wimbo]

@Stephenfabre Take the lid off mate and see how it goes.

[aussievintage]

3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Could be, av - but if it does have a too-small coupling cap (to produce a LF roll-off) ... then I shouldn't be able to hear a 16Hz organ tone?  Which I can.

 

Andy

 

Yes you could.  It'd only be a few db down - and organs are loud 

[Bush thug]

[mention=142326]Stephenfabre[/mention] Take the lid off mate and see how it goes.

Tried that already didn't change anything.

[Bush thug]

I have now added thicker sorbothane rubber under the feet. Releveled the turntable went right through the settings on cartridge and tonearm with the hifi analog lp. I seem to have reduced the rumble sum what but not all gone completely. But better for sure. And sounding good.
So just waiting on the 20hz filter to try and see how that goes. Hopefully doesn't take away anything from other frequencies.
I am getting slight improvements so am happy.

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, Stephenfabre said:

So just waiting on the 20hz filter to try and see how that goes. Hopefully doesn't take away anything from other frequencies.

The filter will basically fix your rumble problems entirely. The question remains about whether it will have any detrimental effect on the sound, because you are putting a component into the signal path. As I said, I can't attest to the quality of the components.

[Wimbo]

25 minutes ago, Stephenfabre said:

I have now added thicker sorbothane rubber under the feet. Releveled the turntable went right through the settings on cartridge and tonearm with the hifi analog lp. I seem to have reduced the rumble sum what but not all gone completely. But better for sure. And sounding good.
So just waiting on the 20hz filter to try and see how that goes. Hopefully doesn't take away anything from other frequencies.
I am getting slight improvements so am happy.

As I said initially. You should get some woofer movement if you have the stylus in the run out groove with volume up. If doing what you have just done has improved the pumping then your on the right track. Also, maybe add a couple of grams weight to the headshell then readjust your tracking force. Who knows.

[Bush thug]

As I said initially. You should get some woofer movement if you have the stylus in the run out groove with volume up. If doing what you have just done has improved the pumping then your on the right track. Also, maybe add a couple of grams weight to the headshell then readjust your tracking force. Who knows.

How would I go about adding a couple of grams. What do you use to do this.
I will give that a go for sure

[Wimbo]

Just now, Stephenfabre said:

How would I go about adding a couple of grams. What do you use to do this.
I will give that a go for sure

To experiment. Just add a small amount of bluetak to the top of the headshell. Then reset your tracking force to the amount you were using before hand.

[Rocketfrogs]

8 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

To experiment. Just add a small amount of bluetak to the top of the headshell.

I remember back in the day putting 50 cent coins on the headshell so the stylus would gouge through scratches 

[davewantsmoore]

On 02/04/2019 at 5:04 PM, Stephenfabre said:

OK so how do I fix this problem.

You can help it with a high pass filter .... but the real solution requires working out what is causing it.   It could be warp, motor rumble, or your cart/arm resonance - likely the later.

 

https://www.ortofon.com/support/support-hifi/resonance-frequency

 

[Wimbo]

15 minutes ago, Rocketfrogs said:

I remember back in the day putting 50 cent coins on the headshell so the stylus would gouge through scratches 

Don't remember doing that, But whatever rocks your boat.

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

You can help it with a high pass filter .... but the real solution requires working out what is causing it.   It could be warp, motor rumble, or your cart/arm resonance - likely the later.

 

https://www.ortofon.com/support/support-hifi/resonance-frequency

 

 

If you can position yourself to watch the woofer and the cart playing the record at the same time, you might be able to correlate the movement with any warp in the record versus oscillations occurring due to resonance.  I can watch my woofers reproduce the contour of a slightly warped record, but there is no or little oscillation after a disturbance.  The only low frequency woofer movement is a fairly faithful reproduction of the record surface.

 

[Bush thug]

 
If you can position yourself to watch the woofer and the cart playing the record at the same time, you might be able to correlate the movement with any warp in the record versus oscillations occurring due to resonance.  I can watch my woofers reproduce the contour of a slightly warped record, but there is no or little oscillation after a disturbance.  The only low frequency woofer movement is a fairly faithful reproduction of the record surface.
 

So I just did one more run through the hifi news ep before I was going to add the weight. I went back and forward form different parts till all were perfect from the test lp spent a few hours with a few breaks in between very tedious process.
It all seemed fine Then I had a look with the warp of the vinyl and the movement of the woofer and it is exactly the same time. so I think I have solved the problem. Some vinyl I have nothing at all just in the end loop.
Obviously did have it set up quite right.

I thought it was good but well I was wrong.

Thanks everyone for your help.
You realy have to go back and forward through every setting cause every one seems to effect the other even so slightly. I have learnt a lot about precision.
Sounding really good as well.
Glad I took the time before I installed the filter.

[Wimbo]

15 minutes ago, Stephenfabre said:

So I just did one more run through the hifi news ep before I was going to add the weight. I went back and forward form different parts till all were perfect from the test lp spent a few hours with a few breaks in between very tedious process.
It all seemed fine Then I had a look with the warp of the vinyl and the movement of the woofer and it is exactly the same time. so I think I have solved the problem. Some vinyl I have nothing at all just in the end loop.
Obviously did have it set up quite right.

I thought it was good but well I was wrong.

Thanks everyone for your help.
You realy have to go back and forward through every setting cause every one seems to effect the other even so slightly. I have learnt a lot about precision.
Sounding really good as well.
Glad I took the time before I installed the filter.
 

Good news mate and great to see so many people helping.