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LEBEN CS300F INTEGRATED: Anyone else using one?


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Yes.  I also know an Auckland music-lover with a LEBEN CS600, who is wanting to move on.

 

With HIFI, it's always horses for courses and your mileage may vary, but I also tend to believe that poor amp/speaker partnerships are the driving force behind most restless owners.

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Thanks for the kind words everyone. To clarify, the guy who is selling his one is doing it to fund a DIY amp that he is building, not out of any dissatisfaction with the Leben.  And as for the CS600 being 'merely OK', really? So funny. It was 'merely ok' running what, some Apogee Scintillas, or a pair of dustpan lids, or some Avantegarde horns? Who would know... 

 Throwaway comments with no context or corroboration mean less than nothing. 

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On 2/25/2019 at 8:34 PM, SONDEKNZ said:

... I also tend to believe that poor amp/speaker partnerships are the driving force behind most restless owners.

 

 

Neil

It seems like we are in agreement on this point.

 

 

29 minutes ago, NeilNZ said:

... running what, some Apogee Scintillas, or a pair of dustpan lids, or some Avantegarde horns? Who would know..

 Throwaway comments with no context or corroboration mean less than nothing. 

 

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On 2/27/2019 at 9:04 AM, NeilNZ said:

 Throwaway comments with no context or corroboration mean less than nothing. 

 

ditto comments from those with undeclared commercial interests  ?

 

the original comment was a placeholder but work and other things meant i never got back to finish.

 

system was meridian 508/24 at one end, kef r107 at the other.

the sound was sweet and forgiving.

too forgiving ?

good dynamics and control at low to mid listening levels.

dynamics reduced at higher levels.

overall pleasant enough but uninvolving.

Edited by michaelw
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Nothing undeclared about me or my profile. It says Turned On Audio under my name and is also clearly in my profile. 

 

Also, as Sondek mentioned, you most likely experienced an amp/speaker mismatch. Specs for the R107 state: Nominal impedance: 4 ohms resistive. Sensitivity: 90dB/W/m. Amplifier requirements: 50-300W. 
Hardly an ideal match for a 28 watt Leben.

Edited by neil
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i'm  sure there was no signature when i wrote that...   ?

 

not ideal for sure, though those speakers have sounded good with low powered amps in the past (pass, quad, rotel et al).

 

sorry, djg, i don't know you from a  block, of soap ?

 

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MICHAELW
You are correct.  There was no signature on NEIL's comment when it was made.
It showed-up later.

 

PS:  Michael - don't ever change... :)

NEIL
I thought it might have been you when you made the first comment on this thread - it sure sounded like you (LOL!) - but there was no other identifier other than "NEIL".
Not sure why, as I assume you are a regular contributor here.

 

Edited by sondek
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Hey guys, I can report that the Leben CS300F is a lovely match with the Klipsch Forte iii's. I knew within the first 30 seconds it was a winner. 

 

The sound stage is super open and airy. Really clean, the speakers pretty much just disappear. For such low power, 15 watts, the bass is great.

 

As Sondek alluded to, it's no polite little number. It can get down and dirty. ?

 

I love the looks too. The vintage/retro look is a statement piece, a talking point. A bit like my coffee machine, a Rocket, which draws the eye to it. It's functionable art in my  book. 

 

Happy listening. 

 

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BIGAL

 

I’m so glad you had the chance to listen to the LEBEN CS300F!

 

I felt sure that if you had the chance, it might be what you were looking for.

 

With your KLIPSCH FORTE efficiency - of course - you can pick any amp with at least 5-10 watts and still have plenty of HP to spare.  Still, for that extra bit of headroom - and it’s many other virtues - the little LEBEN will be VERY hard to beat.

 

Thanks for following through to complete this thread - when so many other never do.

 

Well played, Maestro!

Edited by sondek
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On 3/4/2019 at 3:30 PM, SONDEKNZ said:

MICHAELW
You are correct.  There was no signature on NEIL's comment when it was made.
It showed-up later.

 

PS:  Michael - don't ever change... :)

NEIL
I thought it might have been you when you made the first comment on this thread - it sure sounded like you (LOL!) - but there was no other identifier other than "NEIL".
Not sure why, as I assume you are a regular contributor here.

 

I always had my affiliations listed in my profile from day one... This is one of the reasons I don't post on forums any more, too many egos involved and everyone suspecting underhand shilling... I just can't be bothered with that stuff AT ALL. I have far more interesting things to do than sit on forums trying to sell things to people. I always said I came to forums as an enthusiast first, but those days are fairly long gone now, forums are pretty much poison these days. But, as long as you guys enjoy it all, keep going. 

 

I am really pleased that Mr BigAl is enjoying the amp, it's awesome and goes great with the Klipschs. 

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  • 5 months later...

@bigal

Hey BIGAL!

It's been a little while, so I thought I'd invite you to post some thoughts on your LEBEN CS300F / KLIPSCH FORTE partnership, now that you're months down the track.


Looking forward to hearing how you are traveling...?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yup.  You're not wrong.  Decades ago, LEAK styling was followed by many hifi manufacturers.  LUXMAN, SANSUI, SONY, MARANTZ, ACCUPHASE and many more.

 

Aesthetically speaking, the LEBEN gold with green trim might be a bit much or some people's tastes, but you do get used to it.  Possibly easier for the Aussie clients.  LEBEN gear sports that unmistakeable WALLABIES look and feel, so perhaps Hyodo-san is a big Ruby Union fan?  Maybe his new range will be ALL BLACK... LOL!

 

The hard thing with LEBEN gear is to know what colour hi-fi rack to have with it.  Yes, I have considered the GREEN, but matching timber is probably the low risk option.


Nice Avatar, BTW...
:)

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  • 3 years later...

Hi, I dug up this old topic because I'm an enthousiastic user of the CS300F.  I have it for about e year now.  i use it together with the RS30-eq phono-pre, which is a fantastic combo.  Previously, I had a CS300 with (new) Gold Lion tubes.  I must say I like the F a little bit more.  It's a bit less "forward", but it's so well-balanced, rather neutral compared to it's elder brother.

About the tubes... I am searching for a few spare-sets. I'm sure I'm not the only one!  What brand would you advize, if I can find them offcourse.  I'm located in Europe.  I found the original 6197, but maybe there are better options?  Same question for the 17EW8 / HCC85 in the driver circuit.  These don't come around to often anymore... 

 

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Help Please.

I have a cs300 and am need of some expertise, trouble shooting.

My volume does not seem to be what it shoukd. It stops getting loider just before halfway and that is not as loud as it used to be at that mark. The bass boost is scratchy and gives it a hiccup of volume before going back to the normal volume, almost instantly. 

 

I have swapped tubes, and running a michell orb with a pure sound p10 phono stage.

 

Next step is to see if a cd gives similar outpit. Amy help though would be very welcomed.

 

Thanks.

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I have the scratchy bass boost button to, my unit is only 3 years old.  My older CS300 had the same.  No big deal. 

I can't answer about the volume, but I do think you need to have a technician look at it.

 

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The Bass Boost on the LEBEN CS-300F is achieved with a 3-position rotary switch offering 0dB, +3dB and +5dB bass boost options. Quite small increments, in reality; a good thing IMHO.

 

Ours Bass Boost switch has never been scratchy, but admittedly, the switch does not get used too often.

 

With regard to the volume problem, I agree with DUPLO. If you find the same lack of volume issue on different sources, it's probably time to deliver your LEBEN into expert hands for repair.

Edited by SONDEKNZ
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Quote

LEBEN CS300F INTEGRATED: Anyone else using one?

 

 

 

 

Techs would almost call this an oscillator.

 

Speaking from a technical view point I'd be wary of an amp especially a tube (they should be unconditionally stable) that does this for a 1khz square wave let alone 10khz ones, and has this sort of frequency responses into different loadings.

(either the circuit is not stable or the output transformer is poorly designed and ringing)

 

Cheers George

 

Stereophile bench tests.

image.png.b78ac8ebe7c141e938d017629be0209b.pngimage.png.096ef65d96e28ae5f905b1028cbcb39f.png

Edited by georgehifi
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8 hours ago, georgehifi said:

 

 

 

 

Techs would almost call this an oscillator.

 

Speaking from a technical view point I'd be wary of an amp especially a tube (they should be unconditionally stable) that does this for a 1khz square wave let alone 10khz ones, and has this sort of frequency responses into different loadings.

(either the circuit is not stable or the output transformer is poorly designed and ringing)

 

Cheers George

 

Stereophile bench tests.

image.png.b78ac8ebe7c141e938d017629be0209b.pngimage.png.096ef65d96e28ae5f905b1028cbcb39f.png

D you know if the results are similar with CS600?

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27 minutes ago, PKay said:

D you know if the results are similar with CS600?

 

No not sure sorry, if they used the same componentry, and  just increased to a higher voltage to get more watts from the CS600, "could be"?

 

Cheers George

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11 hours ago, georgehifi said:

 

 

 

 

Techs would almost call this an oscillator.

 

Speaking from a technical view point I'd be wary of an amp especially a tube (they should be unconditionally stable) that does this for a 1khz square wave let alone 10khz ones, and has this sort of frequency responses into different loadings.

(either the circuit is not stable or the output transformer is poorly designed and ringing)

 

Cheers George

 

Stereophile bench tests.

image.png.b78ac8ebe7c141e938d017629be0209b.pngimage.png.096ef65d96e28ae5f905b1028cbcb39f.png

 

@georgehifi

 

For the sake of clarity, are these charts you have posted measuring the LEBEN CS300F? Or are they measurements for the original CS300?

 

They are distinctly different amplifiers, and should be regarded as such.

I suspect the charts you have posted are Stereophile measurements of the original LEBEN CS300, which uses EL84 power tubes and a pair of 5751 driver tubes; and is specified for 12W output into 4/6/8 ohms, via a switchable output transformer.

 

No doubt there is a LEBEN family design approach and a family sonic signature, but the LEBEN CS300F (mostly) commended in this thread is the LEBEN CS300F, which uses JAN-6197 power tubes and a pair of 17EW8HIFI driver tubes; and is specified for 15W output into 4/6/8 ohms, via a switchable output transformer.

 

It is probably worth clarifying your post on this point, as I don't believe a "blanket caution" across different amplifiers is fair play. Until clear and trusted measurements are available, I'd include the LEBEN CS-600 in this regard, also. Innocent until proven otherwise - particularly when all three LEBEN amplifiers are globally reported as a consistent and reliable sonic delight to their owners.

That said, I'd also be interested in your opinion on what these oscillations would sound like, if they were ever present in the amplifier design. How would they manifest themselves in the context of impacting real music reproduction?

Edited by SONDEKNZ
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47 minutes ago, SONDEKNZ said:

For the sake of clarity, are these charts you have posted measuring the LEBEN CS300F? Or are they measurements for the original CS300?

Stereophile has only measured the Leben CS300 not the F

 

 

47 minutes ago, SONDEKNZ said:

I'd also be interested in your opinion on what these oscillations would sound like, if they were ever present in the amplifier design. How would they manifest themselves in the context of impacting real music reproduction?

I think I may "expect" an unnatural emphasis of the treble, "maybe" even a hardness. 

 

This is the Stereophile reviewer Art Dudley listening results comments. (I believe of that area I pointed out)

 "Digital recordings in general also seemed to exhibit a greater-than-usual amount of upper-midrange/lower-treble grain with the Leben-Quad pairing"

This is what John Alexander said about the ringing/oscillation Stereophile measurements that we're talking about.

"The only thing that bothered me was the output transformer's ultrasonic resonances, which become more fully developed into higher impedances."

 

Looking at the 300 vs the 300F insides, the output transformers look the same that John Alexanders says is the problem of the oscillation/ringing 

Cheers George

 

 

CS300                                                                                                                                                               

                                    

2003_0101bild0017lebencs300offen30cm-300x225.jpg.f43cbfd9ebdaa5f9348c0264fb7d7cf8.jpg

 

 

. CS300F

PB130005-scaled.jpeg.1224a61224dacf28ab312ee23d667fb9.jpeg

Edited by georgehifi
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@georgehifi

 

Many thanks for clarifying that the measurement charts that you posted DO NOT apply to the LEBEN CS300F - the amplifier that this thread commends. Quite important, I think.

 

Thanks too for giving an opinion on what amplifier oscillation might sound like, if it were present in an amplifier design. Interesting.

 

I might add that having previously owned CARY 300B Signature monoblocks, TRANSCENDENT SOUND SE-OTL and the Nelson Pass designed and built FIRST WATT J2 - which our LEBEN CS300F displaced - if there was any hint of hardness or midrange and treble problems, our LEBEN would not have had a chance of finding long-term residence with us. 

 

All system dependent and highly subjective, of course.

 

Perhaps other LEBEN CS300F owners on this site might be interested in confirming if they have encountered any hardness or midrange and treble problems?

Edited by SONDEKNZ
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