Stevenvalves System

[rantan]

Hmm. Here's a nice Gumbo with a great name

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Boudreauxs-Zydeco-Stomp-Gumbo/Detail.aspx

[Gee Emm]

wrong thread...

[hedalfa]

For the record regarding those that visited Stevens system from Bathurst, who have posted here as well as the Bathurst GTG some things can be said.

Coloration is concerned with the gap between what is reproduced by a speaker and how the original source sounds. No speaker just simply reproduces what its fed. We aim for a ruler flat response that doesn’t make the speaker completely non colored. If we are concerned with outcomes it is the actual gap between the sound reproduced and that of the original source that matters. How faithfully close does the speaker reproduce for example an instrument, or the human voice? We can note any variation against what is fed but how does the speaker compare with an original source (live music). That’s what matters. Some people who have listened to Stevens system who posted on this thread find the coloration very low if this is the key measure, the ability to sound faithfully like actual music.

There are some perceptions thrown up in this Bathurst GTG review that start from a combative frame of mind. Take the military metaphor ‘I understand the urge to defend a system that you esteem so highly against a perceived attack’. This is the projection, of the writers mental processes it’s not mine. As I have written on Bathurst GTG and here and it’s a desire to explain, and also respond to statements that if not misleading at the very least don’t provide a balanced view.

Its not that difficult to work out that Stevens systems wasn’t designed for barking loud rock and roll. There were details on his system made available on Stereonet that could have been accessed prior to the trip made by the Bathurst group. The record in the Bathurst GTG posts raises questions why the Bathurst GTG people made the trip to listen to Steven’s system in the first place?. What did any of you endeavor to learn? Rather the posts show the reverse agenda we have legion of inflammatory posts, which posit that Steven has so much learn from you, yet posit him a bumbling amateur, and in the process the Bathurst GTG visitors excuse themselves from any real desire to learn anything. Look for yourself, the posts provide ample evidence of this.

The visitors to Stevens home to deflect attention by referring to the need for acceptance of different preferences, or pulling out conspiracy theories, that’s someone pulling the strings behind the scenes. Their hubris lies behind the focus on measurement as means to get what they think is the upper hand. Like the remark that professional’s measure and that you might achieve in 10 hours what might take years by ear. Some professionals (you would expect most but do we really know that) may measure, but how does that correlate with the actual performance of their speakers. If Aslan measures why did at least one his speakers act like he didn’t use a Zoebel network. Uncontrolled rising response of the woofer! Maybe that’s what he wanted, if he measured it can’t be an accident.

There are plenty of professionals that still produce inferior products, it’s the reason many go into the DIY path in the first place. Measurement is useful and valuable but its means to an end. Nor does it recognize that people can train themselves to what contributes to good sound over time, they can associate what sort of changes causes a shift to the sound produced. (Some useful posts have be made on stereonet about the topic of loudspeaker coloration).

Sure listening by ear can be a bit hit and miss and some might say inefficient, but a critical mass can be developed as it can in other forms of human endeavor. It’s true not everybody will have the patience or ability to take this approach. So relying more on measurement as principal tool will likely be more accessible to more people, yet being in the majority doesn’t by itself make something superior. While its true not all the posts suggest we need we rely only measurement, they over labor its contribution.

Advances can take place by those that are not part of the majority. Indeed there is a post in response to the Bathurst GTG that makes exactly that point, and it comes from someone who is a practicing scientist. If the visitors to Stephens had a different approach they might have learnt that Steven has a wealth of applied knowledge about what contributes a system the sounding being biased a particular way, whether that’s warm, thin, diffuse, pulled apart etc.

Despite claims to the contrary the posts on the Bathurst GTG which is now closed don’t suggest a method of seeking to hear how what effects do even small changes have on the overall sound. Is a shift in response, or change in tone better or not? .

My own system is very different from Stevens but I was able to learn from it, because when I visited I was prepared to be surprised and had to let a few scared cows be killed off. The Bathurst GTG visitors lost a valuable opportunity and with the sorts of comments leading to the closing of the Bathurst GTG the opportunities for further communication were also curtailed.

Edited November 28, 2011 by hedalfa

[Drizt]

This post is only going to result in a continuation of the Bathurst thread which defeats the purpose of closing it.

[rantan]

I couldn't agree more.

One would have to be skeptical that Hedalfa's post is sans angle. The Bathurst thread was closed so that this petty cheap a-r-s-e sniping by a pack of acolytes could no longer be foisted upon the long suffering membership of this forum.

FFS Hedalfa, enough is more than enough. We don't care geddit?

This post is only going to result in a continuation of the Bathurst thread which defeats the purpose of closing it.

[Once was an audiophile]

I couldn't agree more.

One would have to be skeptical that Hedalfa's post is sans angle. The Bathurst thread was closed so that this petty cheap a-r-s-e sniping by a pack of acolytes could no longer be foisted upon the long suffering membership of this forum.

FFS Hedalfa, enough is more than enough. We don't care geddit?

Don't read it

[rantan]

Don't post it.

Don't read it

[Jehuty]

I couldn't agree more.

One would have to be skeptical that Hedalfa's post is sans angle. The Bathurst thread was closed so that this petty cheap a-r-s-e sniping by a pack of acolytes could no longer be foisted upon the long suffering membership of this forum.

FFS Hedalfa, enough is more than enough. We don't care geddit?

Those "cheap a-r-s-e acolytes" have listened to stevenvalve's system, have you? What do you think? If you have not, then just chill and stay out of the threads.

[joz]

This post is only going to result in a continuation of the Bathurst thread which defeats the purpose of closing it.

Yep some should just let sleeping dogs lie.

[Sir Rab of Everest]

Yep some should just let sleeping dogs lie.

+1. I'm not taking any side in this dog fight, but it's clear that it should be put to sleep. Nurse!

[ehtcom]

Just because your favorite colour is Green, doesn't mean everyones favorite colour is green.

Let them/us like like purple, yellow, what ever.

Get over it and move on!

[Drizt]

Just because your favorite colour is Green, doesn't mean everyones favorite colour is green.

Let them like like purple, yellow, what ever.

Just get over it and move on!

+ eleventybillion

[Gee Emm]

G'day Hedalfa

I find it very interesting that you have so much to say about that GtG; but you weren't there.

I believe I was the first visitor to post about Steven's system re that GtG, and I believe I posted a balanced view; something like..

It suits Steven, but it's not for me.

I also made the statement about coloured. Maybe I just prefer purple to green.

I can't be more honest than honest.

I think you presume to much about why I was there or what I experienced. Especially as you weren't there at the time.

I would rather move on, but I did find your post somewhat atagonistic & thought I had a right of reply.

Graham

[gamve]

Hi all,

Firstly as a bit of an introduction and some history of my music obsession.

I have been a music lover since I was a teenager and have spent a lot of time listening to varied music styles. I have also been on the Mid-Fi Hi-Fi merry-go-round for more years than I care to count. I have experimented with literally a ton of components and have learnt a lot of useful lessons but alas when I review my experiences I realise that I am going around and around in circles. I guess I have reached a reasonable level of understanding but my progress towards my goals is slow and frustrating. In the last few years I have decided that I need to be more serious about my direction in this addiction.

I spent some considerable time studying different peoples thoughts and methods regarding sound reproduction. I have searched out and found several people that share my passion/experiences and to my great pleasure I have found them to be open and honest and willing to help me along. I have conversed with these people for some time and have actually had the chance to meet and spend some time with these persons and develop some friendships.

I have been conversing for some time now with stevenvalve regarding upgrading my current system to a standard higher than what I have now with my current setup. I suppose I am typical of most maturing music lovers in that my music tastes are slowly changing/evolving and some refinements are required for me to fully enjoy these new found musical interests. Steven has been nothing but helpful in helping me understand what needs to be done to achieve my objectives and I am grateful for his time and patience in guiding me.

I have watched the threads here on SNA with some interest/dismay and I recently decided that I needed to satisfy my own interests by arranging a visit to Steven's home to have a listen. Steven has generously given up some considerable amount of his time to accommodate my request. I just thought I would like to share this experience from my viewpoint.

I have been listening to Steven's music now for an extended period over several different sessions. Please note that I did say music not system. Steven has music preferences and has built his system around the sound he needs to archive to satisfy his musical tastes. It is important to recognise that no one system does everything perfectly. This system will play rock, blues etc but it's forte is voice and classical reproduction for which it has been very carefully voiced to suit.

I needed to listen to a variety of music before forming an opinion of what I was hearing and must admit that it did take some time before I could sort of understand what I was actually hearing. The music reproduction in Steven's room is confronting. I can honestly say I was not prepared for a CD player, low powered SET amplifier running into a single full range driver to be so full bodied, tonally beautiful, fast, articulate, and with such a being there live type presentation. This playback system delivers the emotional content of the music like nothing else I have ever heard (tear in the eye stuff). This to me is the most important function a music playback system and my ultimate goal in my music journey.

I am looking forward to spending a few more days here enjoying Steve and Jens wonderfully hospitality and some further listening to some fantastic music.

[Drizt]

Thanks for sharing your experience, it made for a great read.

[Paul Spencer]

It is important to recognise that no one system does everything perfectly. This system will play rock, blues etc but it's forte is voice and classical reproduction for which it has been very carefully voiced to suit.

I'd go one step further and say no one system does anything perfectly! But one system can do everything exceptionally well. Sometimes, to go beyond exceptional in one particular area, compromises are made in another. Horns are one example of that.

[Drizt]

I'd go one step further and say no one system does anything perfectly! But one system can do everything exceptionally well. Sometimes, to go beyond exceptional in one particular area, compromises are made in another. Horns are one example of that.

Very true Paul.

[rantan]

If you wish to quote my posts, please do so correctly and do not edit my words to suit your sordid justification for poor manners. At no time did I write "cheap-a-r-s-e acolytes".

What I did write was that the sniping was cheap -a-r-s-e and it clearly is.

Just when the dust had settled on this controversial issue Mr Hedalfa saw fit to open a wound which was just beginning to heal.

I also take strong objection to being ordered by you to do anything in particular and I will ask you in a civil but crystal clear manner to refrain from doing so ever again. FYI, I am not in either "camp" and It is my humble opinion that the thread in question was best closed because of the zealotry involved.

I don't need to have auditioned the system in question because I was not passing any subjective judgement on it in any way whatsoever. Since you asked, I don't have a particular view on it. if your Guru likes it then I wish him well because I learned a long time ago, unlike you, that audio is not a matter of life and death.

The point is that this subject is entirely emotive and subjective and I am not and never will be on any side.

Now please let it rest and don't misquote me ever again.

Thanks for your co-operation.

Those "cheap a-r-s-e acolytes" have listened to stevenvalve's system, have you? What do you think? If you have not, then just chill and stay out of the threads.

[Jehuty]

I also take strong objection to being ordered by you to do anything in particular and I will ask you in a civil but crystal clear manner to refrain from doing so ever again. FYI, I am not in either "camp" and It is my humble opinion that the thread in question was best closed because of the zealotry involved.

Ordered? I was simply asking if you have heard the system and what you thought about it, gave a suggestion to chill a bit because the threads have certainly got into your nerve. Are you sure you didn't misquote me?

[proftournesol]

It is my humble opinion that the thread in question was best closed because of the zealotry involved.

the thread was closed because some posters were unable to discuss the issues in a civil manner

[rantan]

Indeed so.

However, zealots are the people most likely to be unable to conduct discussion in a polite manner.

Anything pertaining to that discussion should be forever sealed and covered in concrete as I and many ,many others are heartily sick and tired of the consequences of its continued existence.

the thread was closed because some posters were unable to discuss the issues in a civil manner

[rantan]

If you have not, then just chill and stay out of the threads.

It looks fairly unequivocal to me.

Anyway, I bear you no malice at all, but I would not be honest if did not say that there is nothing productive or positive to be gained from further discussion of this issue.

Good luck to you.........live well and be prosperous:)

[Drizt]

Good luck to you.........live well and be prosperous:)

[hedalfa]

Mr Happy Pants

I started a new thread about loudspeaker coloration you may not have had a good look at it yet its pleasing the variety of educational and interesting posts so far. As a said in the intro the coloration thread sometimes we have difficulties sometimes due to diffuculties in finding the words to fully describe our exeperience. Attempts to clarify can sometimes help the communication procees. It may be something like the midrange presentation of the system was much more forward for your taste or liking. If we can narrow it down sometimes it actaully helps. I am searching for richer more full bodied mid range and maybe you are not, then what I take as a strengh you might see as a weakness. May be because the tonal character wasnt whast you like, you didnt notice as much as others the great resolution and authenticity the system has in the vocals, or other features.

G'day Hedalfa

I find it very interesting that you have so much to say about that GtG; but you weren't there.

I believe I was the first visitor to post about Steven's system re that GtG, and I believe I posted a balanced view; something like..

It suits Steven, but it's not for me.

I also made the statement about coloured. Maybe I just prefer purple to green.

I can't be more honest than honest.

I think you presume to much about why I was there or what I experienced. Especially as you weren't there at the time.

I would rather move on, but I did find your post somewhat atagonistic & thought I had a right of reply.

Graham

[jerry tones]

Don't read it

You have some homework from the other thread.

get to it. You and steven.

Find that 'post' of mine. Or keep out of THIS thread.