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Bose basher's delight...

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So I have read all the Bose stuff out there about how it's amazing, and how it's crap, and I would go with the camp that says physical impossible to get quality sound out of this design. I have heard a few systems, and always thought they sound ok. Not complete shite, and certainly not worth the asking price, but ok.

 

I currently have a Bose system I am working on for a customer, and it looks to be ok build quality. The 10" sub has a huge voice coil and magnets, the 5" drivers likewise have big magnets and don't look like rubbish.

 

So I did some measuring. We all know it's the controller that is doing whatever to make it sound halfway decent, so here is a trace of what the Bose 502C controller is doing to the signal before passing to the amps.

 

Verdict: Would I buy one? Nope. Imagine what a high frequency device would sound like with a 18dB boost. ZiiiiIIINNNG- OUCH!

 

I was going to measure the speaker outputs with and without the controller, but lost interest...

Attached files 140269=5236-bose 502c.jpg

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I dunno, put that into a system with a vinyl front end and the overall result would be a pretty flat response curve, wouldn't it? :D

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Wow, thanks for that. It's nice to see some objective measurements in a sea of baseless Bose bashers. Take one look at that curve and you will understand that Bose produces "better sound through research" while other manufacturers spend all their money on advertising and fancy boxes...

 

If you are ever offered any audio product that is not a Bose, just ask the salesman: "Does it have waveguide technology?" You need a waveguide, it's really a no brainer...

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Yep,

 

No "Highs no Lows--it must be BOSE"

 

Be careful criticising the brand in Public though--years ago the wiley Dr.Amar Bose had a law passed through US Congress saying they-Bose-- could sue any negative/derogatory review/comment made in any a media-

 

Hence never an ill voice is forthcoming

 

Damn smart move I reckon

 

Des

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Yep, sure thing. The graph shows the full audio spectrum from 20Hz - 20kHz. The first curve (on the left) is the output from the low section of the crossover. The 2nd curve (right) from the hi output. You can see the crossover point is at 140Hz (where the 2 curves cross over).

 

Now, if you considered a processor that did absolutely nothing, all you would see is a dead flat line. What this indicates is that there is a lot of equalization going on at the top of the frequency spectrum, similar to if you had your treble control turned way beyond it's maximum (the graph indicates this as a massive upward slope in the higher frequencies) If you take the flat bit of the curve (showing at -12dB) and compare to the top end (+6dB) this comes to 18dB of boost. This amount of processing is only ever needed to compensate for a deficiency in speaker design (which ideally should be flat without any need for processing). Hope that helps

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Yeah, I didn't think my post was critical. Don't get me wrong, this system sounds ok. It can't be considered criticism to post an actual measurement of a piece of electronics ;o)

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Don't panic GGG audio Bose purchasers don't go online to find anything better.

 

The owners I know truly believe they have the state the art in Hi-Fi, in saying that they are not Hi-Fi enthusiasts but they do have loads of money, shame they can't be upsold. The sound is secondary to them but they certainly are proud of owning Bose systems.

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Robocop;140368 wrote:
....shame they can't be upsold.

 

Or indeed downsold into something of more substance...

Most Bose owners don't give a toss about absolute quality, and realistically the Bose will sound a whole lot better than what they've had. And of course the power of suggestion is a very strong thing...

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dafman;140348 wrote:
Ok, for the uninitiated, can someone please explain how to interpret that graph? In lay terms, please? chhers

 

Ideally the lines should be flat with as little as possible deviation from 0 dB

 

Although the above graph shows EQ processing - thake a look at these...

 

Cheap speakers you might find on trademe... http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/pure-acoustics-dream-tower-home-theater-speaker-system-0

 

Good speakers that cost a lot of $$$... http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-stereo-speakers

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Des W;140351 wrote:
Yep,

 

 

 

No "Highs no Lows--it must be BOSE"

 

 

 

Be careful criticising the brand in Public though--years ago the wiley Dr.Amar Bose had a law passed through US Congress saying they-Bose-- could sue any negative/derogatory review/comment made in any a media-

 

 

 

Hence never an ill voice is forthcoming

 

 

 

Damn smart move I reckon

 

 

 

Des

 

What law was that Des ?

 

Back in the mid-80s Bose did successfully sue the US Consumer Union, whose magazine Consumer Reports published a negative 901 review, thankfully the result was overturned on appeal.

 

For a while they had the sobriquet, 'Better Sound Through Litigation", suing for every little perceived slight, eg Thiel for using '.2" in model names, and mass-abuse of the Patent system.

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michael w;140383 wrote:
What law was that Des ?

 

 

 

Back in the mid-80s Bose did successfully sue the US Consumer Union, whose magazine Consumer Reports published a negative 901 review, thankfully the result was overturned on appeal.

 

 

 

For a while they had the sobriquet, 'Better Sound Through Litigation", suing for every little perceived slight, eg Thiel for using '.2" in model names, and mass-abuse of the Patent system.

 

Hmmm- Appreciate the correction--I understood from my time in the US that it was common knowledge some legislation was passed according BOSE the right to sue for so called "Bad press" on their products -- maybe I should have rephrased but you agree something(?) went down that path-- Monster have taken the mantle from BOSE

recently with their own rather small minded suing efforts -chronicled at length in the Audio press-- I think they got burnt though?

 

Des

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i like BOSE!

 

They gave me a free T-shirt and all I had to do was listen to their system for a few minutes.

 

When I go to listen to other retailers demo's all I get is a headache.

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The Bose approach is to take the cheapest possible driver to do the job and then considers that equalising out the response errors fixes the driver's performance. It has even less merit than it sounds, but is why you get those kinds of response graphs measuring the controller on its own. And why the drivers have to be very efficient (to deliver on a boost as large as 18dB). And why Bose systems sound very phasey. Bose does have expertise in equalisation and they lean heavily on that in their products and they need to be measured as a system, not the parts.

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Thanks GGG & Me2. Makes some sense to me now, appreciated. BOSE may not be a great music company, but they are ahead of most when it comes to marketing genius. Right up there with Monster cable, me thinks.

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its funny how many people in Mossman and the Northern Beaches have Bose, they see it as a status symbol, or as an intermediate step toward B&O. A colleague of mine called up a hifi place in Pymble and said, "I'm an audiophile, and I'm looking for a price on the lates BOSE" - to me that is an oxymoron !!

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ajst2duk;140720 wrote:
its funny how many people in Mossman and the Northern Beaches have Bose, they see it as a status symbol, or as an intermediate step toward B&O. A colleague of mine called up a hifi place in Pymble and said, "I'm an audiophile, and I'm looking for a price on the lates BOSE" - to me that is an oxymoron !!

 

You mean like going into a CD shop and saying "I'm a music lover, do you have Celine Dion's latest album?". Whoops, I hope Celine's people don't read this forum or I could be facing an expensive lawsuit.

It's all part of our society; the triumph of marketing over true quality.

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Luis;140723 wrote:
It's all part of our society; the triumph of marketing over true quality.

 

Oh? Is that what it's called...??!! :rolleyes: :eek: ;):D

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Why is it often that awesome marketing machines are matched with mundane products?

 

I know a good product is meant to sell itself, but just imagine if a good product and good marketing combined! :rolleyes:

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nixon76;140729 wrote:
Why is it often that awesome marketing machines are matched with mundane products?

 

Its only crap products that need good marketing!!! You answered it yourself below:

 

 

nixon76;140729 wrote:
I know a good product is meant to sell itself, but just imagine if a good product and good marketing combined! :rolleyes:

 

If you have a good product you don't need over the top marketing! ;)

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Also, it's simple economics.

 

Cheaply manufactured product sold at high prices leaves more room for profit and therefore more room for marketing costs.

 

As opposed to much of the really nice product around, where the manufacturers are just keen to get the units out there and get some sales going after all the time and money they invested in it, and a competitive price is one way to do it.

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ajst2duk;140720 wrote:
its funny how many people in Mossman and the Northern Beaches have Bose, they see it as a status symbol, or as an intermediate step toward B&O. A colleague of mine called up a hifi place in Pymble and said, "I'm an audiophile, and I'm looking for a price on the lates BOSE" - to me that is an oxymoron !!

 

To me that is just a moron. Just goes to show that there is no substitute for good marketing, and of course the waveguide... :rolleyes:

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mycenius;140728 wrote:
Oh? Is that what it's called...??!! :rolleyes: :eek:
;):D

 

Hmmm, I dunno. Reminded me of Margaret Thatcher "And, you know, there is no such thing as society."

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dafman;140519 wrote:
Thanks GGG & Me2. Makes some sense to me now,

 

Mapping a speaker is basically setting the volume at a certain dB and then playing tones of certain frequencies and measuring with a decibel meter if each frequency tone is lower or higher than your set dB level.

 

A speaker with a lot of negative readings in the low frequencies and lots of high readings in the high frequencies would be a bright sounding speaker without much base.

 

A speaker with high low-frequency readings and low high-frequency readings would be a muddy sounding speaker without much detail.

 

A flat line would produce a more neutral sounding speaker.

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