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Sony SS-G333ES speaker repair

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This was conceived of as a reply to Omegaspeedy in "B200 speaker project.....lots of photos" but rather than "hijack" his thread, http://audioenz.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=107439&postcount=56

I thought it might be better posted separately? ... :)

 

 

omegaspeedy;107439 wrote:
Awesome looking Sony's RdM! How do they sound?

 

[http://thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyes/SSG333ES/SSG333ES.html]

 

They sounded awesome;- "crystal clear" treble would seem apropriate to the tweeter! - 'alumina' I gather is like gemstone- add a bit of this impurity, and you get sapphire - another, ruby - but, after having bought them quickly with a bargain "Buy It Now" $200 - obviously listed in the wrong (PA speakers!) section - at least a year or more ago - I rapidly discovered that one of the mid-ranges had been mounted back unsymmetrically, and on further inspection, that it had had a dodgy cone-surround repair done to it with what looked for all the world like Ados F2 glue, messily, in great gobs... so I took the drivers out, for curiousity, of that one, and to inspect the insides ;- great, separate, thick copper angle bus crossover sections ... and, since the lounge went into abeyance around the same time, they're basically still awaiting renewal and re-assembly! A future pleasure ... !?

 

I would say, knowing a friend with Yamaha NS1000M's, that I preferred these, and had read a forum opinion from someone who owned both, that the Sonys "ate" the Yamahas, but it's obviously all subjective - the Sonys rate twice the power, but are also ported vs the Yamahas sealed boxes, etc.

 

Who to trust to such a speaker driver repair/restoration with ?

 

I've thought about some suitable F2 solvent - also considered MEK - just to at least get the uneven weight distribution around the cone edges off; but I also, holding that midrange driver up to the light, see a pinhole in the cone (same material as the bass speaker) which I wonder about repairing/filling;- a hypodermic needle's worth touch of superglue, I wonder?

 

But the driver build qualities are awesome!

Both the bass & midrange drivers have felt-lined vented magnet poles.

 

See some more (machine Japanese translated!) detail here:

http://tinyurl.com/yfz55rh

 

Now, since I'm embarrassed to have appeared to "hijack" that thread ...

 

Please, bury this with further opinions of your own! :D

 

Ross

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Ross,

 

I recall that someone recently recommended a Mark Brumby in Akld for spkr repairs... see the Fixing A Hole repairers list on the Hi Fi General Discussion page.

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Thanks, Owen. I found Mark excellent for the first time recently, getting a pair of 165mm mids refoamed on behalf for a friend.

 

But I put this in DIY thinking that I'd also if possible like to tackle the hard & painstaking removal of the old glue myself, then possibly pass it to an expert who might have access to the "right" glue, if needed after. :confused:

 

Partly to save money, since times are dire, but also to "have a go", since I may be prepared to spend the time involved in reducing the excess.

 

Apart from the (multiple!) pinholes, which I found too hard to photograph without setting up some lights, here's what I'm looking at ...

 

These speakers came from a (Whiskey) bar, and I have no doubt that someone tried previously to do some detachment repair themselves, without using a professional expert speaker repair service ... ! :eek: :D

Attached files 107688=3466-bottom.JPG 107688=3462-top-01.JPG 107688=3463-top-cu-01.JPG 107688=3464-under-01.JPG 107688=3465-under-02.JPG

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Great speakers the 333s and to think there was an even higher end 777ES. A friend brought a pair of these in the very early 90s. I ended up using them for a few months as i temporarily swapped my JBL L100Ts with my mate for a listen. I never got to open them up but on the outside very impressive build,looks and weight. I was running a 200w/ch Perreaux PMF2350(I still use it now)into them and was quite impressed by the sound. Very tight bass compared to my JBLs(both have high quality 12s)and a smooth midrange with a not so sparkly top end. I preferred the titanium tweeters on my JBLs. In the end though i appreciated my JBLs more as the Sonys lacked the dynamics and bottom end i like. Still anyone seeing them sitting on top of their original stands cant help but be impressed by just the looks alone. The only problem my mate has had with his pair was with the tweeters. The domes had become brittle and partially corroded but the sound still seemed ok?. I hope you get those Mids done so you can get some good listening time in. Did they come with the Sony Stands?.

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ARIKIP;109360 wrote:
Great speakers the 333s and to think there was an even higher end 777ES. A friend brought a pair of these in the very early 90s. I ended up using them for a few months as i temporarily swapped my JBL L100Ts with my mate for a listen. I never got to open them up but on the outside very impressive build,looks and weight. I was running a 200w/ch Perreaux PMF2350(I still use it now)into them and was quite impressed by the sound. Very tight bass compared to my JBLs(both have high quality 12s)and a smooth midrange with a not so sparkly top end. I preferred the titanium tweeters on my JBLs. In the end though i appreciated my JBLs more as the Sonys lacked the dynamics and bottom end i like. Still anyone seeing them sitting on top of their original stands cant help but be impressed by just the looks alone. The only problem my mate has had with his pair was with the tweeters. The domes had become brittle and partially corroded but the sound still seemed ok?. I hope you get those Mids done so you can get some good listening time in. Did they come with the Sony Stands?.

 

Well, it's an old thread but so what? I was googling G333-ES on the weekend and stumbled across this forum, talking about my ones! One of the tweeter domes eventually fell apart completely and has been replaced with a custom made one thanks to Brian Hart. Doesn't sound the same or as good as the original, but good enough for an old rock dog like me. I have always found them a little lacking in the bottom end but they seem to come to life when you stick plenty of power into them. Problem with that is it's all too loud by that stage.... Ariki's JBL's certainly had fantastic bass, but I've always been a fan of JBL's for sub work so I'm biased as can be. :D

 

Oh, the big black box is a 600Watt JBL 2226H loaded bandpass sub which I've been trying to sell on TM for ages. After spending some time on the forum, I finally decided to drag it upstairs and try it as an HT sub as it is quite musical. I did have 2 JBL HT1S subs but I sold them recently as they took up too much space. I replaced them with a little JBL Control SB2 which is a 10" dual voicecoil corner sub for installations. Big mistake. Huge mistake actually. The SB2 is a great sub, don't get me wrong, but compare to the 2 12" jobs in big ported boxes...well, need I say more....

 

I then wired up 3 of them in a crazy series parallel setup and stacked them in the corner. That didn't do it for me either.

 

After last nights experiment, I'm thinking I may just keep this one right where it is! Explosions go BOOM again, and not from "over there"...

Attached files 129299=4400-DSC01340.jpg 129299=4399-g333es.jpg

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Hey Brendon....welcome to the forum :) Ahhhh the ol 333es still looking lovely after all these years. Those stands are pretty rare you know. If those photos are recent i see you still have the Technics and Kenwood combo. Hows my ol Pioneer A717....im sure its wanting to come home sometime :) Man...thats a big sub....im sure the Sonys are quaking in their boots...or stands. Always good to see photos....show us more!!!!!!

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Not quite as lovely as the picture shows - there's quite a bit of oxidation around the silver driver surrounds, but still pretty good - a lot better since moving from the swamp house...

 

Yeah, the L34 finally carked it, so I replaced it with another 34" sony which is complete crap compared to the L34. I still prefer the image of a CRT to all the other options and have a 16:9 native projector for big movie nights. The A717 is still going strong along with the JB940 and EC500 (only a tuner now as the CD player is dicky on it). That's Ali's morning radio.

 

I'll post a pic for you to get all nostalgic with, but in the meantime, here's my latest adventure (dare I cross this line.?...new thread to come soon...)

 

- I-tech 6000 Sub amp - 3kW into 4ohms/ch (2 x 18")

- 2 x PLX2502 - 2400W bridged into 4ohms (1 amp for 2x 15's per side)

- 1 x PLX2502 - 200ish per ch into 16ohm (2" exit compression drivers)

- 1 x dbx driverack 4800 4 in/8 out system controller (also has Aes/ebu ins and outs so still trying to figure out a way to incorporate this into an HT setup...)

 

Now, ain't dat purdee?

Attached files 129354=4401-amp rack.jpg

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WOW!!! Thats some mean setup there...so you installing an IMAX at the back of your place :D Does AC/DC know some of their gear has gone missing? ;) and it sure does look Purdee alright. By the way....have you ever tried something like a Professional QSC amplifier on say a quality home speaker like the Sonys 333ES's? Your opinions?

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It's tiny compared to some of the rigs out there, but I'm not a millionaire....yet :P

 

I'll start a new thread about pro vs consumer as I'm interested in the views of others here, but I would say the hi-end Crown and QSC's would be on par or better than equivalent priced consumer amps. They do make THX amps and speakers for theater's after all... http://www.qscaudio.com/press/news.php?id=211

 

Here's the pics I promised

Attached files 129390=4407-a717-2.jpg 129390=4406-a717.jpg

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ARIKIP;109360 wrote:
Great speakers the 333s and to think there was an even higher end 777ES. A friend brought a pair of these in the very early 90s.

 

[ ...]

 

I hope you get those Mids done so you can get some good listening time in. Did they come with the Sony Stands?.

 

Apologies for the delayed reply!

 

No, no stands, but with catalogue & net pics had decided to try to clone... at the moment just on metal stands, similar height.

 

I did do work on the glued mid and got it pretty well cleaned up; and yes, thanks, did enjoy some months of quality listening time! (I'd also sanded and sealed the recesses for each driver, with self-made circular jigs of plywood with glued sandpapers & handles to rotate, since IMO very rough) (that's another story!) - but, recently still wondering again about "bass-light" after using a temporary amp, and after amazingly buying a second pair of bass drivers on TM, but discovering one had cracked rubber surrounds, I idly ran a finger around the center of my own bass surrounds, and discovered - to my horror!! - that both had almost invisible radial cracks, only discernable by feel & curiousity. I'm sure they only developed in the last 6-8 months or so!

 

Yet my Kef 104ab pair, despite being in a kitchen, and dated 1972, with rubber surrounds, seem fine still... different rubbers?

 

The Sony SS-G333ES bass surrounds I discover now are quite thin...

 

(Picture is from one of the TM pair, but my own show at least radial cracks.)

 

This might well make them seem "bass-light", wouldn't you agree?

 

So, gentlemen... I suggest you run a (well cleaned!) finger say around the center of the bass surrounds, ie at their highest point, depressing ever so slightly - you will discover a crack by feel if it isn't already visible...

 

Could it be that the rubber used in these units (a single-designer unique model!) has reached its end of life?

 

You present owners, do have a look... and if you will, please report back!!

 

 

I am reflecting on this as this innocent auction draws to a close...

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=611588783

 

 

Here's a pic of one of the TM pair, poked slightly from underneath, as an illustration of what you might find on top...

 

 

185606=11591-G333ES-rubber_damage-CU-500.jpg

 

 

Disturbing, no?

 

And on researching rubber rejuvinators, it seems there's a point where the cross-linking fails, the rubber perishes, and nowt can be done... !!!

 

 

Looking up speaker surround suppliers, and measuring these, I can't find one so far that has both inner & outer dimensions correct, rubber or foam.

 

The massive rubber outer seal would need an expert disolve to get off anyway, I imagine;- it's sad, but how would you approach this legacy?

 

~ Ross

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RdM;185606 wrote:

 

And on researching rubber rejuvinators, it seems there's a point where the cross-linking fails, the rubber perishes, and nowt can be done... !!!

 

~ Ross

 

Er, rejuvenate ... rejuvenators ~ oops!

 

 

Here's how I approached smothing the rough chipboard recesses;- coarse & smooth sandpaper either side of plywood disks, cut from one sheet of paper for the bass unit.

Re-used inners for mids, & etc. I still have them.

 

 

185607=11593-sanding 01_500.jpg

 

Well, the gasket is very thin, the chipboard rough, & it seemed like a good idea at the time... chasing that 'bass-light' thought!

 

No harm & maybe some good done, I reckon!

 

I smoothed even more and sealed ultra smooth after that pic.

 

I couldn't get in to the backs, since screws frozen & broke off when trying to extract the first one or two... so going in through the front was my only way to see the superb crossovers - and interior generally.

 

Always interested in any other input re these speakers!

 

But please inspect & feed back re your rubber bass surrounds!! ;=})

 

Thanks,

 

Ross

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Clever sanding jigs. You could put even longer handles on them for more leverage ;)

 

If the rubber (or synthetic rubber likely) has hardened, then that is problematic. A thin material glued on to repair holes maybe - being vented boxes, air sealing not such a critical issue, unless mids are in sealed chambers.

 

As a protectant, Armorall works on 'vinyl' etc. Just a thought.

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One of mine has a cracked rubber surround, ironically, the same one that lost the tweeter dome. The other one is still ok so I suspect it was sun damage that caused the problems. These speakers have always seemed light in the bottom end - even when brand new. They are probably just flat and everything else is bass hyped.

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Owen Young;185612 wrote:
Clever sanding jigs. You could put even longer handles on them for more leverage
;)

 

Thanks;- but no, it was perfect enough (as well as re-using available materials) ~ little pressure needed. Just quite a few iterations!

 

I forgot to say (must see if I had more pics) that the initial impulse was not just from the inherent roughness in the coarse chipboard; it had also been routed in two concentric passes - and there was a slight step!

 

 

Owen Young;185612 wrote:
If the rubber (or synthetic rubber likely) has hardened, then that is problematic.

 

Yeah. I have a bunch of bookmarks on another PC, I'll catch up later.

 

Thought though of generating enough interest to gather together a custom moulded buy, need to do more research or know more on how done, but I saw even local rubber moulding specialsts. Or maybe overseas rubber not foam (at first pick obviously) surround manufacturers can be checked for custom quotes.

 

I fear that this is EOL and perishing can be expected, so even though I bought a rubber glue from the Japanese shop above the Town Hall and haven't yet started the attempt (I will try on the least affected) I think that more cracking will develop.

 

A best attempt replacement would surely be worth considering; a sample for a mold and a current tech replacement; as best similar compliance / flexibility / extension as can be determined I guess, but I believe (do I understand correctly?) that much of the compliance is set in (what used to be called) the spider, the corrugated fabric ring at the base of the cone?

So perhaps an ideal new-tech rubber replacement can be made.

 

There must be a bit of a market; a few owners here; how many afar?! ;=})

 

Maybe a project can be started, open source etc.

 

 

Owen Young;185612 wrote:
A thin material glued on to repair holes maybe - being vented boxes, air sealing not such a critical issue, unless mids are in sealed chambers.

 

Here I have to dsagree, or don't believe;- my understanding is that air gaps are equally important, sealed or vented; the air slug in the vent acts as a separate entity above resonance (cf passive radiators) and the rest of the cabinet must be sealed perfectly (as possible).

 

The mids at last glance seemed OK, although I haven't closely inspected (the speakers are parked behind the inferior substitutes brought in as jokey temporary listening) but they are nicely made with a sloping rear, and stuffed slightly, I forget with what.

 

 

Owen Young;185612 wrote:
As a protectant, Armorall works on 'vinyl' etc. Just a thought.

 

Again, I have a bunch of rejuvenation bookmarks on another PC, I'll try to catch up soon.

But thanks so much for your kind reply!

 

(Haven't yet gotten around to syncing via the clouds! )

 

~ R

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GGG Audio;185614 wrote:
One of mine has a cracked rubber surround, ironically, the same one that lost the tweeter dome. The other one is still ok so I suspect it was sun damage that caused the problems.

 

Ah, thanks for that!

The auction also showed damage on one.

 

 

GGG Audio;185614 wrote:
These speakers have always seemed light in the bottom end - even when brand new. They are probably just flat and everything else is bass hyped.

 

Yeah, I agree. They'll surprise you when bass really is there.

 

Strange too, with such a narrow long rear port.

 

But I've also only recently had the odd repair job amp to try on, & the whole lounge was out of commission for a couple or few years, and so with effectively only a few months listening I'd also only just started playing around with positioning and thinking of room treatments as well.

 

I still have yet to try them on another amp, and wonder about better.

 

Anyway, they're now out of action for the time being; - I'll research further as I have time, and hope all interested others will too, as above!

 

Maybe the only way out of this is to get new replacements manufactured.

 

They're definitely a non-standard size so far as I have seen.

 

Just my present viewpoint!

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