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Technics SP10 Appreciation Thread


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2 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

I know how to measure runout it was spinning the platter on the motor that sent me measuring to determine what caused the vertical runout. I also measured TIR of the motor and spindle in the lathe. I posted because I thought people might be interested.

 

That is an AA grade granite surface plate with the motor sitting on precision blocks accurate to 0.005mm. Look at the measurement of the motor mounting flange compared to the platter mounting face.

 

Platter is not mine it's made for someone else which is why I needed to determine the cause, as when I indicated the platter in the lathe it measured less than 0.02mm TIR.

Looking at your precision surface there seems from the pic to be sand or bits all over it which is what I saw. If measuring like this even a tiny bit of grit gives a massive error, but I am sure it is just a trick of the light. This way to measure a flat you need to be really careful.

Anyway nice project, did you find the problem.

Chris

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Bought my SP10 mk2 off a SNAer for ~ $750 (actually on eBay) as the TT unit and PSU only. Serviced, resprayed black and plinth built by the late Duc. Also sports one of his Univector tonearms with a S

Finally.... my SP-10MKII is alive in its completed new plinth... (After gathering dust for years  & months messing with the plinth design & building.)   Cheers, Owen Dark L

Hi fellow SNA'ers   Last week I was fortunate enough to  get a SP10mk2 from a radio station that's in very lightly used condition. Looks like it came from a production studio and wasn't thra

There are 2 issues with the motor, 1 - is the platter mounting face has runout, 2 - I think the interface where the spindle is pressed into the rotor is flexing and the bearing is flexing. Mounting the motor in the lathe and indicating in the spindle bore I can get 0.02mm deflection with my finger. It's not slop in the lathe, I checked that. I am planning to machine a new motor housing with a larger bearing now I have finished my Stainless platter.

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I read a post that Wayne Colburn from Pass Labs made a few years ago about a Stainless Steel platter for an SP10 mk2 they had made. Pass Labs evaluation the SS plattered mk2 performed as well as a mk3. This sent me down the path of making a SS platter for my mk2.

 

This is platter is made to stock dimensions, so it fits in a stock SP10 mk2 chassis. Pic 3 shows it mounted in my spare test mule mk2. In these pics I hadn't milled the platter mounting bolt recess.

 

I'll add the measurements in the next post.

 

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Being a trained electronics tech and metrologist I'm not into subjective evaluation. I believe if I can hear a difference I can measure it, so that out of the way.

 

Here are the impulse response measurements of the the stock and SS platters.

 

Pic 1 - Stock platter and rubber mat no clamp. I did the same test with the clamp and there was no difference in the response plot.

 

Pic 2 - Stock platter diy acrylic mat with reflex clamp.

 

Pic 3 - SS platter acrylic mat and reflex clamp.

 

Breaking the measurements down

 

1 - 200mv P-P and decay takes 12 cycles

2 - 80mv P-P and decay takes 12 cycles

3 - 80mv P-P and decay takes 4 cycles

 

Platter resonant frequency - OEM 40Hz and Stainless 16Hz.

 

Not only does the SS damp resonance faster it also lowers the Fr to 16Hz.

 

Is this audible in the music............YOU BET.........

 

IMG_20201128_122059725.thumb.jpg.4e2ebd3ef9a13fd14d87290273911db7.jpg

 

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On 22/03/2019 at 11:47 AM, Peter_F said:

Without a doubt the BEST spinner on the planet for the money.  Idlers and belt drives are mere toys and farming machinery by comparison IME.  Unfortunately the SP10 MKII is often the victim of audiophools who poorly implement them and blame the deck.  There is no limit on their potential as they can be mated with arms and carts of the absolute highest calibre.  I've owned well over 250 turntables and still have about 20, but the SP10 MKII is still my reference.  My only 'upgrade' would be to a MKIII. 

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Your tonearm is worth 3 0r 4 times more than your sp10 .  

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Hello everybody , you all have very nice and different SP10 turntables , I just love it , for my everyday turntable  I have a SP10 Mk2 and it has the obsidian volcanic glass base

and looks and sounds  good , It came with a EPA 100 arm and a denon dl103 MC cartridge . I also run a ortofon mc20 MC cartridge . when i got this turntable

for joe ridiger at the audio connection it came with a EPA500 and 1 x epa-a501H and 2 x epa-a501L arms , he said it was special but I have never used them.

I sold 1 x epa-501l arm and kept the rest . I am not sure what to do with these arms and I seek your counsel about this .

I also have a Michelle gyrodeck and this is what I use as a reference turntable because it has a accuphase ac-2 MC cartridge .

regatrds

ivan

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On 02/12/2020 at 2:07 PM, palexsia said:

Your tonearm is worth 3 0r 4 times more than your sp10 .  

 

and the SP10 mk2 can handle it easily.

 

My SP10mk3 has a Thales Simplicity II tonearm fitted and it raised the SQ more than I could ever have hoped for.   No real desire to look at more expensive tables anymore.

 

YMMV

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41 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 

and the SP10 mk2 can handle it easily.

 

My SP10mk3 has a Thales Simplicity II tonearm fitted and it raised the SQ more than I could ever have hoped for.   No real desire to look at more expensive tables anymore.

 

YMMV

My original SP10 MKii , sold this to Max head room ‘ Jason  . Keep it and love it never let me down. , very faithful TT . 

B89AF0C0-640F-4E25-AED2-2B6A96E7DA9E.png

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  • 4 weeks later...

Interesting reviews. 40years on  the SP10mk2 is still amongst the best TT ever made.

 

I had the opportunity recently to hear the SP10R back to back with a modified mk2 and the 10R was not an order of magnitude better, the 10R was also on a MinusK. The mk2 was a motor mounted in a resin/bentonite plinth with electronics housed separate. A better platter on the mk2 and I suspect it will be equal to the 10R

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This platter is destined for the modified mk2 in my last post.

 

The impulse response is about as good as gets. First trace is the OEM second is the Stainless/Delrin platter. Testing was done in the plinth in the first pic with different setup to the previous plots so these will differ, it's the relative measurement between the 2 platters that we are interested in. Damping of the SS/Delrin is far superior. The ringing before and after is an artifact of tonearm resonance I did these measurements with tonearm damping off. This platter doesn't fit a stock SP10 so I couldn't do the measurements in the previous setup.

 

 

IMG_20201228_131044175.thumb.jpg.c469e6f5f15fbf4f6f6b763bbbdae6f5.jpgIMG_20201115_122129579.thumb.jpg.f0ae39d0f5dcd5d5cca25c2f6562def3.jpgImpulse-OEM.thumb.jpg.870d111802538186286ca0cb4f4c361f.jpgImpulse-SS-Delrin.thumb.jpg.f3f277e8f87d39ed39a49efb0a66f166.jpg

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My spare SP10 motor died. Found the FG, which are the coils that provide the feedback to the PLL had a broken wire. The solution was to dismantle and rewind the coils. Took a few attempts to get it right as I broke the very thin 0.1mm wire a couple of times. Adjust it and now my spare SP10 is working again.

 

Motor dismantled, this thing rings like a bell, I think some sound deadening is in order next time I pull it apart.

 

FG coils ready to be assembled.

 

FG assembled ready to be soldered back in place.

 

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On 29/12/2020 at 7:45 AM, Warren Jones said:

Interesting reviews. 40years on  the SP10mk2 is still amongst the best TT ever made.

 

I had the opportunity recently to hear the SP10R back to back with a modified mk2 and the 10R was not an order of magnitude better, the 10R was also on a MinusK. The mk2 was a motor mounted in a resin/bentonite plinth with electronics housed separate. A better platter on the mk2 and I suspect it will be equal to the 10R

 

Interesting.   A decent tonearm and the SP10R would go ahead quite a bit I would think.

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Both the SP10R and mk2 have SME IV arms. From my measurements the stock mk2 platter resonates, the SS/Delrin dampens this resonance far better than just the SS platter alone which is better than the OEM. Technics made a point of showing platter resonance test results in 10R blurb. The 10R platter is extremely well damped.

 

Once I get the platter to the user I will get him to do impulse tests between the 10R and the SS/Delrin mk2, this will be interesting.

 

Nelson Pass uses an SP10mk2 with a stainless Steel platter as their reference TT at shows over their mk3. Wayne Corburn from NP piped in on the DIY forum about their SS plattered mk2, this is what sent me down the road of making a SS platter. Next plan is to have a gunmetal blank cast and I'll machine this up and see how it performs against the SS

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20210106_155407.thumb.jpg.959d69cc5eba63fb235c7e5060eebb21.jpg

Testing the lead plinth with acrylic armboard from Warren. Loving the sleeker looks

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone, 

 

Just thought I'd join in on this SP10 Mk2 appreciation thread. 

I've attached pictures of my rig as well as some of the cartridges I've collected. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Ian Jackson. 

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Hi Warren, 

 

I scored this cartridge off ebay and then got lucky when there was a NOS stylus offered for auction on Buyee, the EPS-P205ED4. 

Sounds exquisite. 

I must say my introduction to MC carts was the 310.  I'd never heard one before and then I partnered it up with my SUT and was amazed. I made the analogy to a friend, that a quality MM is like a razor sharp blade, whilst a MC is like that same blade sparkling in the sunlight. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Ian. 

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SP10 Gunmetal platter. This turned out a little undersize (317mm) so I didn't put the chamfer on the edge to keep mass as high as possible. I need to adjust the OD of the mold plug. It looks great on the black SP10.

 

 

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On 02/12/2020 at 10:59 AM, Warren Jones said:

Being a trained electronics tech and metrologist I'm not into subjective evaluation. I believe if I can hear a difference I can measure it, so that out of the way.

Observe (eg listen) first, measure second - is the basis of good scientific methodology.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

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Chaps - just a progress update on my SP-10 MkII journey...

 

Now fitted with:

- Terminator Linear tracking, Air-bearing tonearm

- London Decca Super Gold with Decapod cartridge

- Fidelity Research FR-64 arm

- Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge

 

I've had the latter 2 for many years, but never tried them together as a combo ?

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

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Another platter upgrade, this time I bonded Derlin to the top of the gunmetal and machined it flat. This makes the gunmetal totally inert, hit it with a hammer and all you get is a dull thud.

 

The 1kHz spectrum for the Delrin/GM is incredibly clean compared to the last plot which is the stock platter. The span is different but the sidebands on the OEM platter plot are obvious. Both plots were done using the same setup and the Ultimate Analog test LP.

 

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I'm also a big fan of the SP10.  With some help from Owen (in thread above) I built a stacked plywood, MDF with lead/resin loading, layered plinth and installed two tonearms - the Transfi Terminator with AT33EV cart, and an SME3012 with a Ortofon SL15 ELL in SPU headshell.  Setup sounds excellent and compares favourably to my Luxman PD444 rig.

Thanks to Owen for his assistance in laying out the plinth and tips on setting up the Terminator!

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 29/09/2020 at 10:02 PM, Mr Thorens said:

Dear SNA Technics team members. I’m looking into plinths. On eBay there is a seller of these. Has anyone experience with this model?

 

TECHNICS SP-10 MK2 PLINTH ONLY IN 2X20MM.ACRYLIC PLUS 3MM. COMPOSITE ALUMINIU   

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F264610424911

Hi,

I have recently become an SP10 mk2 owner and have one of these plinths.

 

I can't tell you how it compares to other plinth types, but can tell you it sounds amazing.

 

It is susceptible to condensation (can see it in the photos - could be the Qld summer) but apart from that it sounds amazing (previously owned two Linn LP 12's).

Very impressed and totally understand how these turntables have their reputation -  a source component of the highest quality.

A keeper

SP10.jpg

SP10 2.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Warren Jones said:

Welcome to the club, I was also an LP12 owner for many years, and you're correct the SP10 has huge potential.

Hi Warren,

thanks for your response - your SP10's look awesome - the parallel tracking arm is of interest to me as I also own an SL10 and whilst it is not in the same league as an SP10 - it does many things incredibly well and I can't help feeling that the parallel tracking arm is contributing significantly to this.

Your work seems to be bearing this out ; also the new platter material /construction you are trying.  Very interesting and so glad that someone is exploring the the boundaries.

 

cheers

Cameron

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Here is my latest creation, my SP10mk2 Platinum with an extensive list of modifications. I have gone to great lengths to reduce and isolate vibration as much as possible. How does it sound - lets put it this way I am hearing detail in familiar music I have never heard before. And yes my EPA100 is modified too with a new CW stub SS CW and locking ring, with variable viscous damping.

 

Resin Bentonite plinth.

Remote mounted motor separate electronics

Lower bearing brace

Motor modified for 3 bolt mount

Motor dismantled and internally damped

Gunmetal platter with 20mm Delrin bonded to top

Secondary spindle isolated from motor spindle

 

IMG_20210216_121924467.thumb.jpg.a2526dc5bb989f95e326b1b79a18f875.jpg

 

IMG_20210216_162040591.thumb.jpg.4666be6c5edfd11f4488548891bc1a02.jpg

 

IMG_20210228_120423180.thumb.jpg.b818db7050494c038e3687870f36d30e.jpg

 

IMG_20210228_120411558.thumb.jpg.c63188ce39bab0f1f3996d5b61bab181.jpg

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1 hour ago, Cammyboy0_0 said:

Hi Peter,

Lovely SP10 - what platter mat are you using?

 

cheers

Cameron

 

Hi Cameron

 

It's an Audioquest sorbothane mat.  I was quite skeptical when I got it but it grips the platter and record, and provides more platter dampening than that the original mat, which is twice as thick.  

 

Pete

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16 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

Here is my latest creation, my SP10mk2 Platinum with an extensive list of modifications. I have gone to great lengths to reduce and isolate vibration as much as possible. How does it sound - lets put it this way I am hearing detail in familiar music I have never heard before. And yes my EPA100 is modified too with a new CW stub SS CW and locking ring, with variable viscous damping.

 

Resin Bentonite plinth.

Remote mounted motor separate electronics

Lower bearing brace

Motor modified for 3 bolt mount

Motor dismantled and internally damped

Gunmetal platter with 20mm Delrin bonded to top

Secondary spindle isolated from motor spindle

 

IMG_20210216_121924467.thumb.jpg.a2526dc5bb989f95e326b1b79a18f875.jpg

 

IMG_20210216_162040591.thumb.jpg.4666be6c5edfd11f4488548891bc1a02.jpg

 

IMG_20210228_120423180.thumb.jpg.b818db7050494c038e3687870f36d30e.jpg

 

IMG_20210228_120411558.thumb.jpg.c63188ce39bab0f1f3996d5b61bab181.jpg

Superb work! Precision...

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