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Having used Roon for 4 years and paid for a Lifetime membership I love it but I'm probably biased.

I feel the best thing is you can run Roon server on any cheap, nasty PC, Mac, NUC, Pi or what ever. Connect an endpoint on the same network and plug that into your DAC. The sound quality is determined by the endpoint, not the server.

I use a SoTM sMS-200 Ultra as my endpoint but there are many different choices as an endpoint.

By having a cheap core machine (server) it leaves more money to spend on the more important endpoint.

The Roon knowledge base website is a font of information. https://kb.roonlabs.com

 

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Guest Peter the Greek
7 hours ago, a.dent said:

The sound quality is determined by the endpoint, not the server.

This is good info, thanks for the post. I'm a bit ignorant about these things, if I had a server with a coax or optical out into my receiver/processor its the receiver/processor that determines the quality isn't it, as its all digital until the processor does its thing?

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

This is good info, thanks for the post. I'm a bit ignorant about these things, if I had a server with a coax or optical out into my receiver/processor its the receiver/processor that determines the quality isn't it, as its all digital until the processor does its thing?

 

 

Yes. No. Maybe.

The server is going to have a huge impact on sound quality if it is plugged straight into the DAC. A cheap noisy PC will not sound as good as a dedicated server (with an effort made to reduce noise) in your example.

See this extensive thread. 

 

That's the reason to isolate the server from the endpoint with ethernet. It's the endpoint that determines sound quality not the server.

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On 18/03/2019 at 5:11 PM, DarkNark said:

 

My DAC can play DSD, but I don't use that function. In my case, I don't hear a difference. I may have not been clear when I asked about users experiences with Roons DSP. I was referring to the convolution filters for room correction. Anyone tried it?

Have been using Roon for over a year. Have used straight eq and convolution filters. Roon is very flexible in the way these can be applied and you could use both if required. The power of convolution filters (if my understanding is correct) can take it into the realm of what a deqx does if using a program such as DRC to generate the filters. 

 

The thing I find really good about Roon is it mostly just works and having tried a lot of other software it is clearly the best functioning and has the most features, although i havent tried mac options.  

 

Remember the way it works is the Roon "core" can power many endpoints and they include any android device, chromecast, squeezebox, any kodi installation, dedicated devices , raspbery pi etc. And it can run them all simultaneously and with different music like in a family situation , no extra licenses required. Just limited by how powerful the core is and how far your network travels. 

 

Having said that, I have run roon on old laptops, atom fanless pc's, pi's and dedicated servers. In terms of how much power is required. Not much to run one endpoint at redbook (44.1k) with DSP (eq or convolution) , An atom could easily handle dsp at higher rates but may just be a bit slower in response over the network.

 

Although it is expensive and I keep trying to figure out what I can replace it with once you integrate Tidal with it, it is very hard to improve upon. With the Tidal integration you really have the entire Tidal library as if it is part of yours and when your selected music ends it can play music from either your library that is smiilar or can also include selections from Tidal that are similar. It is very easy to find new music and explore with no gap. For this last reason I can justify the money. 

 

In terms of how good Roon sounds I think it is all relative to what you are trying to achieve. Roon software is made for the purpose of streaming high quality music through a house easily. I havent compared it but apparently much better than sonos and similar. So for most people it is already probably more than adequate. Once you get into the rarified atmosphere of can it equal my $10000 cd spinner, well some think it can (especially if you use the same dac that your spinner uses). At this level the hardware and software becomes critical to achieve the result and very expensive renderers, power supplies, cables, network solutions are the order of the day. Do you need all that in a standard setup? I would say no.

 

There are also other options such as adding Hqplayer to do more sophisticated upsampling/digital filtering if you want to fiddle.

 

A great start is to attach in whatever way you can via audio outputs, usb or optical and go from there. 

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38 minutes ago, frednork said:

Have been using Roon for over a year. Have used straight eq and convolution filters. Roon is very flexible in the way these can be applied and you could use both if required. The power of convolution filters (if my understanding is correct) can take it into the realm of what a deqx does if using a program such as DRC to generate the filters. 

I did investigate getting Roon for DSP, but sadly the Phantoms required a Roon end point which meant additional 2 boxes. 

44 minutes ago, frednork said:

In terms of how good Roon sounds I think it is all relative to what you are trying to achieve. Roon software is made for the purpose of streaming high quality music through a house easily. I havent compared it but apparently much better than sonos and similar. 

Cannot match Sonos for ease of setup and use. It consists of downloading App and plug the Sonos in.  Plus surprisingly good customer support from Sonos years after purchase. Sonos is just ok for sound quality.

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10 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

I did investigate getting Roon for DSP, but sadly the Phantoms required a Roon end point which meant additional 2 boxes. 

Cannot match Sonos for ease of setup and use. It consists of downloading App and plug the Sonos in.  Plus surprisingly good customer support from Sonos years after purchase. Sonos is just ok for sound quality.

Hi @Snoopy8, assuming you have tried airplay connection for the phantoms, cuts it down to one box that you may already have

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1 minute ago, frednork said:

Hi @Snoopy8, assuming you have tried airplay connection for the phantoms, cuts it down to one box that you may already have

No airplay, not best way to feed Phantoms. Will use optical which is only external feed port available. 

 

Apologies to OP for taking this off topic..

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7 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

No airplay, not best way to feed Phantoms. Will use optical which is only external feed port available. 

 

Apologies to OP for taking this off topic..

Its strange they did it that way only (optical). Optical doesnt get as much airtime as usb. I have a solution you could try. An all in one nuc roon fanless headless server/player with optical port. Not super expensive, will run dsp. small footprint. I am assuming you are looking at a hardware based solution so at least one more box anyhow! The standard dsp in Roon is great to use as you can change it on the fly and hear the difference you are creating as the song plays.

 

@Snoopy8 Happy for you to have a play with this unit if interested.

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13 minutes ago, frednork said:

Its strange they did it that way only (optical). Optical doesnt get as much airtime as usb. I have a solution you could try. An all in one nuc roon fanless headless server/player with optical port. Not super expensive, will run dsp. small footprint. I am assuming you are looking at a hardware based solution so at least one more box anyhow! The standard dsp in Roon is great to use as you can change it on the fly and hear the difference you are creating as the song plays.

 

@Snoopy8 Happy for you to have a play with this unit if interested.

Interesting, may borrow box. Currently working on getting MSO going with Phantoms.  Let's continue this discussion elsewhere, we are going OT again...

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33 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Interesting, may borrow box. Currently working on getting MSO going with Phantoms.  Let's continue this discussion elsewhere, we are going OT again...

Ok, one more thing which i think is relevant for those looking at Roon,

Roon can be setup to output multiple channels either into a multichannel dac like an avr or by grouping sets of outputs. I think it would be a trivial exercise to have extra channels which are set to route the left /right main re-outputting to say the analog audio card as well as the optical out , setup eq in ROon (which you have determined by MSO) and adjust for any latencies, distances. This straight into a couple of subs and voila .Can also invert phase if required

 

Although I havent tried it I do intend to.

 

And dont forget ability to run music anywhere else there is roon endpoint (ie an android phone)

Edited by frednork
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1 hour ago, frednork said:

Ok, one more thing which i think is relevant for those looking at Roon,

Roon can be setup to output multiple channels either into a multichannel dac like an avr or by grouping sets of outputs. I think it would be a trivial exercise to have extra channels which are set to route the left /right main re-outputting to say the analog audio card as well as the optical out , setup eq in ROon (which you have determined by MSO) and adjust for any latencies, distances. This straight into a couple of subs and voila .Can also invert phase if required

 

Although I havent tried it I do intend to.

 

And dont forget ability to run music anywhere else there is roon endpoint (ie an android phone)

Thank you. Did not realise Roon could do all of this. Without compromising audio quality, it sounds like it can be be done in a PC with a built in linear power supply, sound card with RCA ( for dual subs) and optical out for left and right? 

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54 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Thank you. Did not realise Roon could do all of this. Without compromising audio quality, it sounds like it can be be done in a PC with a built in linear power supply, sound card with RCA ( for dual subs) and optical out for left and right? 

Havent done it, but on paper, yes

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On 18/03/2019 at 1:28 PM, What Me? said:

 

I have just started trailing the Roon software and love the presentation but loathe the system not able to operate unless the PC is left on.

 

I enjoy having to touch a PC at night and the phone is the most obtrusive I like to get.

 

Not sure if Room is worth the money if I don't utilise all its functionality.

 

What's your thoughts?

 

I can recommend Roon, it is my home streaming platform of choice for my setup.   I run it from a dedicated Mac Mini which plugs into the DAC of my 340i but you can use cheaper hardware, if you have any existing NAS its worth checking the specs and seeing if its up to the job and you'll need a Roon Bridge for your Hifi.   I have an old iPad mounted near my hifi with the Roon Web App on it which I use for playing songs as I loath having to find my mobile phone every time I need to play music.   If you get a similar setup going you can avoid needing to use a PC. 

 

Keep in mind you will need to also pay for a TIDAL subscription unless you have a great collection of digital music already.   I found the missus and kids don't like Roon+TIDAL and they defaulted back to using Spotify because of the playlists and bigger range of music.  So during a recent cost saving drive I gave up the TIDAL subscription and now use Roon purely for my own digital collection - bit of a shame but so be it. $13,99 for Spotify, $23,99 for Tidal and $14 for Roon each month was a bit much.  

 

Once Roon makes it easier to stream music outside the home (like Plex does) it will be a far more universal solution for me.  Otherwise there is the clunky need to use TIDAL when out and about, and Roon when at home.  It just doesn't have WAF so Spotify wins again.  I'm using a Plex out of the home to access my collection, and Roon in the home at the moment . 

 

 

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Hi all, I got into Roon in the last half of 2018 and went the next step early this year by  installing a 15m Ethernet run to connect our upstairs modem/router (connected to NBN) to the Roon Nucleus (self installed 1TB SSD and loaded about 15,000 FLAC tracks) in our downstairs main system. I connect the outputs of the Nucleus as follows: USB1 output to Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ for MQA decoding to go through Musical Fidelity M6si and Paradigm Reference Studio 100s, USB2 output to Oppo HA1 Headphone Amp with Oppo PM1 headphones and HDMI out to Denon AVR 4520 for multi channel. I had some great help on the StereoNet audio software forum to get the multichannel working (overcoming my own incompetence).  The system and software has performed flawlessly in all formats (incl MQA) in 2ch and multichannel. Love the Roon interface and have discovered heaps of music through Tidal and Roon radio. Have been enjoying the MQA decoding by Roon (in part) and the Brooklyn (balance) but to my ears it is not always clearly better (Schiit Jotunheim and LCD3s or Oppo HA1 and PM1s which are not MQA often just as good). Using Roon controllers (computer, iPads and iPhones) to control 11 outputs (this includes outputting to our Sonos hardware around our house).  Roon has been stable and delivering great listening results and lots of interesting reading. All in all Roon and Nucleus has been another significant step forward in our Hi-Fi system and the quality, variety, experience and enjoyment of music. I agree with earlier statement that it’s not quite as easy as Sonos, but the extra quality and features make the relatively small increase in complexity definitely worth it with the bonus that it runs on our Sonos hardware. Have not dipped into DSP at this stage. Because the Nucleus runs the Roon Core no need for computer to be on.  I typed this listening to jazz via Roon/Nucleus (located in photo above MF M6si and left of Oppo BDP 105) to the Brooklyn DAC+, 2ch MF M6si and the Paradigms Studio 100s - photo below. 

465AE9C7-F850-47CE-B1B7-E30BB357D37E.jpeg

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I, like others in this thread, was not necessarily enamoured with the "I want to play some music, so I had better go and turn on my PC"  method to make Roon work in my setup.  Especially for others in household the "venture into that morass of his study and turn on his PC - meh" response would have inhibited the usefulness of Roon as a practical platform for the whole house.  

 

By a circuitous route I ended up getting an Antipodes EX server/renderer when building a study system.  I could not be happier.  Provides a Roon Core which can also run through my Bluesound Node 2 devices in 2 other rooms.  And to turn on the Antipodes unit is more akin to turning on the Amp/CD which others in the household get easily ("if the LED circle around the button is orange, not green, then press the button and it will be green and your sounds will then emerge").  Sure better than getting a text asking whether I have changed my password.  I was sufficiently happy with the Roon experience in this setup I went the lifetime one off payment approach. And i have been VERY happy with Antipodes EX performance and Antipodes service.  Now pondering moving the Antipodes and Hugo TT partnership (when resurrected) into my main system to make the most of the SQ of this pairing . And how to justify acquiring the CX partner unit :) 

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Hey Dilettanteque,

I went super close to an Antipodes EX and (pre-loved) Playback Designs Merlot DAC. I came across Antipodes advertised in a UK Hi-Fi magazine when wanting to get back into ripping and organising the rest of my CDs when my MusicM8 and later my computer with built in CD died. I found out Antipodes were a NZ company and read very good reviews in Stereophile (Class A from memory for the Antipodes DX), I then had some really great advice and assistance from Pure Music Group.  

In the end given the level of my system and a hankering to use MQA I went with the Roon Nucleus and Brooklyn DAC +. It has been brilliant and I am using Roon and the Nucleaus in my study system as I work tonight (back to it after this break).  Like the Antipodes, no need to switch on a computer and has been flawless in delivering Roon around out home to various equipment. Leaves room for an upgrade in the future if I advance in the rest of my gear.

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7 hours ago, KRSDarwin said:

Hey Dilettanteque,

I went super close to an Antipodes EX and (pre-loved) Playback Designs Merlot DAC. I came across Antipodes advertised in a UK Hi-Fi magazine when wanting to get back into ripping and organising the rest of my CDs when my MusicM8 and later my computer with built in CD died. I found out Antipodes were a NZ company and read very good reviews in Stereophile (Class A from memory for the Antipodes DX), I then had some really great advice and assistance from Pure Music Group.  

In the end given the level of my system and a hankering to use MQA I went with the Roon Nucleus and Brooklyn DAC +. It has been brilliant and I am using Roon and the Nucleaus in my study system as I work tonight (back to it after this break).  Like the Antipodes, no need to switch on a computer and has been flawless in delivering Roon around out home to various equipment. Leaves room for an upgrade in the future if I advance in the rest of my gear.

Do you use USB out of the Nucleus into Mytek? 

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Whilst there are lots of “hifi separates” solutions for Roon, I have found that repurposing my old 2009 Mac mini, admittedly replacing the CD drive with and solid state drive and the hard disk with a 2terabyte drive (about $350), has worked really well. You need to leave it on all the time, so there is a low but constant power draw, and it feeds a variety of end points, including a Cambridge CXN in the main system, along with a variety of others- Apple TV, chromecast audio, etc. I do not use DSP (beyond playing with volume matching and upsampling) and most files are 16/44 with some hi res. I have no problems with lag and can play Tidal albums without gaps between tracks. The Mac mini is Ethernet to the router, though most connections to endpoints are wifi- to be honest I have not found this any worse than wired connection, assuming wifi is sorted in your house.

The setup for this was done largely with the help of YouTube and the Roon community forum, by a person who whilst pretty used to doing fine work with my hands, has  never learnt to solder, cannot program a computer, and doesn’t know the difference between an op amp and transistor.

Edited by Juzbear
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3 hours ago, Jonny said:

Do you use USB out of the Nucleus into Mytek? 

Yep.

USB 1 to Mytek then Mytek into MF M6si and output to Paradigm Studio 100s (2ch stereo) - the Mytek is only one I can access MQA content from Tidal

USB 2 to Oppo HA 1 to Oppo PM 1 headphones for headfi 

HDMI to Denon 4520 AVR for multichannel (which includes HT bypass so still use Paradigm Studio 100s for FL and FR)

Required help from this community and Roon to get it all working, especially the multichannel, and locating and downloading true multichannel files but now works perfectly. 

Cheers

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5 minutes ago, KRSDarwin said:

Yep.

USB 1 to Mytek then Mytek into MF M6si and output to Paradigm Studio 100s (2ch stereo) - the Mytek is only one I can access MQA content from Tidal

USB 2 to Oppo HA 1 to Oppo PM 1 headphones for headfi 

HDMI to Denon 4520 AVR for multichannel (which includes HT bypass so still use Paradigm Studio 100s for FL and FR)

Required help from this community and Roon to get it all working, especially the multichannel, and locating and downloading true multichannel files but now works perfectly. 

Cheers

Hi mate,

 

How do you get multichannel to the 4520? Would be good to try this. I have a few albums in surround

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14 minutes ago, Bunno77 said:

Thanks @Music2496 

Mine doesn't come up with a channel layout option but the 4520 is seen as an airplay device. Does it need to be connected and configured to the core via HDMI somehow?

No chance with Airplay from Roon to 4520.

 

So the only way to get it working with the 4520 is via HDMI connection like @KRSDarwin ended up doing.

 

Edited by Music2496
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34 minutes ago, Music2496 said:

No chance with Airplay from Roon to 4520.

 

So the only way to get it working with the 4520 is via HDMI connection like @KRSDarwin ended up doing.

 

Cool thanks again Guru Sean. Enabled system out etc and figured it out. Thanks

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