Cope Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 The reason I'm asking this question is because I want to use a particular amp for relatively low volume (65dB ish) listening in the bedroom, and at the moment it's not working out too well. The amp (a Marantz PM8006) has four audible steps in volume on the dial before it reaches 9 o'clock, at which point it acts normally. The speakers (old Monitor Audio B2s from 2003) are rated at 90dB and it seems that optimal listening volume with this combination is right between one of these volume steps. My theory is that if I want to keep the amp for the bedroom, I need to pair it with far less efficient speakers (Spendors or Dynaudios come to mind). My reasoning is that speakers rated at 84dB will take 4x the power to reach the same volume as 90dB speakers, and this will hopefully push these volume steps down to inaudible levels. Does that seem logical? Have you ever had speakers that were too sensitive for a particular system? If so, what was your solution? NB: This amp has other quirks that I don't love, and have detailed elsewhere, but I do like the sound otherwise. So I'm not exactly for the idea of replacing the amp, but not dead set against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr 57 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Maybe try 10db in-line attenuator ? Thinking out loud 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr 57 said: Maybe try 10db in-line attenuator ? Thinking out loud I had no idea such a thing existed. That's possibly the most useful answer anyone has ever given me to a question posed here. Very much appreciated. Something like this, yes? http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/rothwell-in-line-rca-audio-attenuators-pair/ I mean, the current speakers were always a temporary measure, so I may yet replace them with either of the options mentioned in the original post, but this is obviously a much simpler solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I sold my Elektra pre/power combo, not because I didn't like it, but because I found like the OP, the combo had too much gain for my new speakers. I loved the combo with the speakers I had previously. There is also the option of modifying the amp to lower gain. The designer and builder of the Elektra gear offered to do this for me but I prefered to leave the gear in "original" spec and move it on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr 57 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 They are well worth a try. You might even be lucky enough to score a used pair from one of the guys here. Try a WTB ad, might get lucky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, blybo said: I sold my Elektra pre/power combo, not because I didn't like it, but because I found like the OP, the combo had too much gain for my new speakers. I loved the combo with the speakers I had previously. There is also the option of modifying the amp to lower gain. The designer and builder of the Elektra gear offered to do this for me but I prefered to leave the gear in "original" spec and move it on. I can understand that - you'd imagine the original gain spec was decided upon as part of a wider design decision and messing with it might have unintended consequences elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 The great thing about this attenuator discovery is that it gives me the option of speakers with even greater sensitivity if I so desire. The new Klipsch RP-600M bookshelves, for example (which I know from experience are a very good match for my amp at much higher volumes), would have been completely untenable, being well above 90dB sensitivity. They are now back on the shortlist. This is all very exciting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, blybo said: I sold my Elektra pre/power combo, not because I didn't like it, but because I found like the OP, the combo had too much gain for my new speakers. I loved the combo with the speakers I had previously. There is also the option of modifying the amp to lower gain. The designer and builder of the Elektra gear offered to do this for me but I prefered to leave the gear in "original" spec and move it on. I just went through the exercise with my new amp. The designer offered and lowered the gain but it lost a bit of definition. It was like someone turned the tone controls down slightly. So in the end went back to its original form. I sometimes use the Windows players I'm using to lower the volume (like the attenuators) so the volume range is better suited to my listening levels. eg. Foobar, JRiver etc I have used in-line attenuators in the past and they had a similar effect of toning down the music. Some more than others. It is slight but noticeable. Edited March 15, 2019 by rocky500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwhouston Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 If not super critical of the sound try a 15ohm 10W wire wound resistor from Jaycar. Put this is series with the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, mwhouston said: If not super critical of the sound try a 15ohm 10W wire wound resistor from Jaycar. Put this is series with the speakers. I had a feeling there'd be a solution involving a resistor, but knew I wasn't savvy enough to deduce the correct specs. I might still go for the attenuators for the sake of neatness, however. Thanks for the option all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 15/03/2019 at 10:31 AM, twofires said: The great thing about this attenuator discovery is that it gives me the option of speakers with even greater sensitivity if I so desire. The new Klipsch RP-600M bookshelves, for example (which I know from experience are a very good match for my amp at much higher volumes), would have been completely untenable, being well above 90dB sensitivity. Only if you believe Klipschs bogus specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, A9X said: Only if you believe Klipschs bogus specs. I had a feeling that would come up. A Stereophile review of the aforementioned speakers will be up soon, so it'll be interesting to see how far off they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Indeed it will. I've caught them out with 6dB differences before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I use these to run digital sources into a Naim pre/power setup... https://audioprincipe.com.au/interconnects/attenuated-10db-twisted-pair-interconnects/ great for managing gain with no discernable effect on sound quality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper() Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Ive previously put my little creek OBH-22 passive preamp between the source and amp before and just use it for volume control. Cost $50 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Here's the thing - this might all be solved by getting the matching ND8006 network player and disc spinner for my amp, which I had planned to do anyway. Not only do they bang on about it being "perfectly matched", the ND8006 also has a variable output, just in case my idea of perfect doesn't match theirs. That unit is actually a hell of a lot of stuff I need all rolled into one box; cdp, USB and optical DAC, USB isolator, headphone amp, network player, internet radio, etc. etc. Still, the attenuators are a cheap solution to tide me over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Mute-on said: I use these to run digital sources into a Naim pre/power setup... https://audioprincipe.com.au/interconnects/attenuated-10db-twisted-pair-interconnects/ great for managing gain with no discernable effect on sound quality. Agreed - an excellent solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 6 hours ago, A9X said: Only if you believe Klipschs bogus specs. I think Steve Guttenberg claimed 95db and according to Stereoplay in Germany they had a maximum level of 104db. A part of the text of the attached review says that the Klipsch provides genuine reproduction of Rock Concert Level where the "highs" still remain clean. Klipsch-Reference-Premier-RP-600-M-stereoplay-01_2019-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 17/03/2019 at 5:27 PM, allthumbs said: I think Steve Guttenberg claimed 95db Do you have a link to the measurements? I'm not interested in his fluffy prose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, A9X said: Do you have a link to the measurements? I'm not interested in his fluffy prose. Guttenberg and measurements? You gotta be kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, allthumbs said: Guttenberg and measurements? You gotta be kidding. The sarcasm didn't come through clearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, A9X said: The sarcasm didn't come through clearly enough. Mine or yours? Nah I got it. It's interesting in this most subjective of hobbies how we all cling to some kind of "fact". I wasn't offering Guttenberg as proof, just that he initially made a statement of quoting 90db and then apologized and amended it to 95db, which gives you an idea as to his adherence to the facts. I kinda like the Harbeth approach whereby speaker sensitivity doesn't play such a major role these days in speaker design according to them because "watts are cheap". Guttenberg (and I don't follow him at all), I think is an enthusiast more than an expert, a propagandist more than a prosletyser although he is very inarticulate which he makes up for with his enthusiasm for self marketing. But where does that leave us if you can't believe the manufacturers, or the advertisers or the critics (I mean reviewers)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, allthumbs said: It's interesting in this most subjective of hobbies how we all cling to some kind of "fact". I wasn't offering Guttenberg as proof, just that he initially made a statement of quoting 90db and then apologized and amended it to 95db, which gives you an idea as to his adherence to the facts. He probably just misread the brochure, then correct, as that's about as close as he ever gets to facts. 19 minutes ago, allthumbs said: I kinda like the Harbeth approach whereby speaker sensitivity doesn't play such a major role these days in speaker design according to them because "watts are cheap". There comes power compression. I'm a self admitted and long term HE speaker fanboy and have yet to hear a low efficiency unit that didn't sound constipated (please excuse the descriptive prose). 19 minutes ago, allthumbs said: Guttenberg (and I don't follow him at all), I think is an enthusiast more than an expert, a propagandist more than a prosletyser although he is very inarticulate which he makes up for with his enthusiasm for self marketing. Very good synopsis. I'd use a single word that ends in nker. 19 minutes ago, allthumbs said: But where does that leave us if you can't believe the manufacturers, or the advertisers or the critics (I mean reviewers)? In a much better place. In audio reviews and (generally) specs, I've never read so much BS outside Homoeopathy journals. Or Cryptozoology. Or Astrology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, A9X said: Or Astrology. You must be a Sagittarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-reference-premiere-rp-600m-loudspeaker-measurements 6.4dB down. Ouch. That said, the subjective review is extremely positive. Edited March 21, 2019 by twofires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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