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ML2 Stands: What Height should they be?


075Congo

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Just taken possession of a pair of ML2 References and had the good fortune to get a pair of stands from Lenehan Audio as a temporary measure. Question is is there a "magic number" like 63cm for the height of the stands under the ML2's. What should they be filled with? Dolomite I read somewhere. I'll probably go with a set of  ML2 dedicated stands from Lenehan Audio later in the year but be interested to get some info. The ML2 speakers are a real surprise package and continue to sound just fabulous. Currently feeding Queens Greatest Hits into them: my wife has seen Bohemian Rhapsody twice so there you go!

Cheers

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Thanks for that! Looks like the speakers need to go up by 100mm to 150mm. Still looking at distance out from the wall but I have a difficult room design. Thank you Mr Architect (RIP) great look but !

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Yep, tweeters at ear level, although you do have to consider the kind of distance from the floor MIke deisigned the crossover for. Mine are on 45cm stands - which work very well - but I believe Mike's own stands are 50cm tall.

Edited by ljmac
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Many thanks; the temporary stands I have from Mike must be similar to yours:  roughly 45/46 cm from the bottom of the base to the surface supporting the ML2 (measuring up from the floor level to the base of the speaker is close to 49cm). I think I'll move them out into the room a bit and see how that changes things. Sorry to sound so thingy about this but after a diet of Vandersteen with room nodes and all sorts of crap I should just relax and play some music. Going down to him soon to pick up a set of speaker grilles and to check out a set of Foil Tek XLR Interconnects; I'll check out the measurements on the dedicated ML2 Stands.

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Less critical I think to a degree when you are further back, but just ask mike he will tell you. I know he’s been working on his isolation idea like the ML5s have, which will make a bigger difference to them than anything else you could do, would be worth he’s going there, as that likely will require shorter stands as the springs lift them up. 

 

I bought a set set as a guinea pig on my ml3s and I reckon it made them better than ML5s without the springs. Crazy stuff.

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Ask where he's at with it though, I had a lengthy discussion about whether to use them just under the speakers (better) or under the stands (easier, but hard as different stands affect spring requirements)

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I have used the Townshend Speaker bars before and would be inclined to use them under the stands rather than the speakers themselves. The TA were a real ***** to get the level set front to back and side to side. I like the look of the Lenehan spring design ; much more robust and no rubber pods involved as in the TA (or I didn't see any?). Also looking at my stands could a spring module be designed to bolt on where the current speaker spikes are?. Anyway I think I'll wait until he designs a dedicated stand for the ML2 plus springs; buggerising around with existing stands would be a design nightmare. Wonder if we should start a "crowd funding" movement to back Lenehan Spring Technology Development...that sounds like a plan!

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I think you could happily order a set of the ML5 bases if you invest in the 52kg stands mike makes as they end up weighing the same, I was planning to try this with the ML2s cafad has now, but never got around to it.

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Down there yesterday to pick up a pair FOIL FLEX XLR Interconnects; excellent build quality and very high level performers. Also saw a 3 metre pair of FOIL FLEX Speaker cables...major drool! According to Mike the magic number for the stands is 60cm to account for the first reflection of the drivers to the listening position . For a bit of fun I am going to create a 115mm "structure " to seat the existing stand and ML2's "on" to get to the 60cm mark. The new structure will have a broader spread than the existing stand to make sure nothing falls over. Keeps me off the streets. Also asked Mike what a GTG is? I got a strange look?

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Guest Muon N'
5 minutes ago, 075Congo said:

Also asked Mike what a GTG is? I got a strange look?

:lol:

 

Not to worry, we all have to get used to these abbreviations at some point early on when we take up forum existence. :)

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I “designed” my own stands.  The initial top of the stands was 60 cm above the floor.  My floor is a parquetry.  So, to protect the floor I attached small Teflon gliders.  Now I use Finite Elemente Cerabase Classic Footers (No longer Available – Wonderful though – A poor man’s Stillpoint).  They add another 5cm to the height plus a benefit sound wise. 

The stands are top and bottom steel plates and three 7.5 cm square steel legs each filled with basalt rock dust and lumps of lead solder.  The two back legs are close together and the corner of each legs faces forward.  The stands are 55kg approx.  They cost approx. $600 for the steel, cutting and welding. The overall weight and the feet do make a contribution to the final result.  Mike was complimentary about the stands when he saw them awhile back.

The last time he visited me we tried springs between the top of the stands and the speakers.  There was a definite benefit but there was no way I could cope with the speakers wobbling around like jelly.  I cannot comment upon springs under the stands.  The thought of nearly 100kg wobbling around is very scary indeed. 

John

IMG_5374.JPG

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7 hours ago, Somethingclever said:

@Assisi How much did the speakers wobble when the springs were between the speakers and stands? 

Surely once they are settled then they wouldn't wobble? 

Did you take any pictures when they were in situ?

@Somethingclever

Enough to give me apoplexy.

The springs were some that Mike uses for isolation platforms for amps etc that he makes.  There were four springs per speaker.  Maybe they were a bit overrated for the experiment.  Nevertheless, because of the weight of ML2 Ltds there was a high degree of compression.

 

When you use springs in this way to reduce or remove unwanted frequencies it is absolutely essential to get the springs placed precisely to ensure that the oscillations of the unit are up and down only with no wave movement or wobble whatsoever.  As well the timing of the oscillations is critical.  Nice and slow and long lasting over time.

 

The weight distribution (centre of gravity) of the bottom of the speakers is not exactly centred.  So, it took Mike quiet awhile to get the placement of the springs exact.  Until the springs were in the correct position a push down to test the oscillation cycle resulted in a wobble like a soft jelly.  Very scary.  Even when the springs were correct a slight sideways push may have tipped a speaker off the stand.

 

Eventually the springs were correct and some music played.  There was a benefit.  I was much happier though when the springs came out.  It was crude way of testing the benefit of isolation.  I can live without the benefit.  Mike’s visit resulted in a benefit as he fitted some Dueland silver bypass caps to the cross overs.  I didn’t take pictures.

 

Mike did talk about making isolation platforms to go between the top of the stand and the base of the ML2 speaker.  That I assume is still work in progress.

 

John

Edited by Assisi
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@custom_made

 

Like others I have been waiting for the isolation platforms that Mike was considering developing.  When I started my audio journey approx 8 years ago my first step was my ML2 Ltds speakers.  They were by far the best part of my then system which was based around a Yamaha Z11 AVR.  Six different amps, 4 DACS etc plus much more later, the speakers unfortunately are the weakest part of my system.  The speakers are very special to me as they are one offs.  They just are not up to the electronics that I now have.  Reluctantly I now know that I have to go another step which will be very expensive.  I am not yet ready for that step.  Everything I do to improve the performance of my system is focused on other aspects particularly power treatment.  So springs are not a high priority as I know they will not do enough to match the rest of the system.

 

@075Congo

 

In Melbourne there is the Dame Elisabeth Murdoch - Melbourne Recital Centre.  It is very close to tram tracks and trams.  To isolate the impact of the trams and vibrations, my understanding is the that entire Centre is suspended on gigantic springs to mitigate the impact of the passing trams.

 

John

 

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2 hours ago, Somethingclever said:

@Assisi I know you aren't ready but have you thought of which way will the future speaker upgrade will go?  And can I ask the model of Amp and Dac you have settled on?

@Somethingclever

There will be a lot of water under the bridge and anguish before I make a decision and have the funds to change speakers.  I am very very tentatively attracted to Marten Mingus.  But oh dear the expense.  My ML2 Ltds are superb and my listening pleasure is still significant.  I purchased the speakers from Mike based just upon a couple of Telephone calls.  It was uncharted territory for both us.  I had no idea what I was getting myself into.  Mike had never made a speaker to that standard before.   The speakers he produced were and still are fantastic.

 

 

I now know a lot more and I do know that for me the ML2s are very special but they are not in the same niche as my Soulution Series 5 Pre and power amps plus a Weiss Man 301 Network Player and a Weiss Medea DAC.  Ultimately there will be a change so that the full potential of my system can be realised.  Half of the pleasure of any experience is the fantasy or anticipation.

John

 

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