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JVC DLA-N5/DLA-N7/DLA-NX9 Owners Thread

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Ok, thx, guys! I didn’t mean that yellowing was an issue on previous generation. Just that THX mode used the filter. And separately that some people reported that it didn’t happen in HDR with the filter in place on the new units but I’m not sure that’s accurate.

 

Btw, I thought they still kept the THX mode on the 7 series. Oh well! 

 

One thing to try on the N7 would be to add a mode for SDR with the filter in place and calibrate it that way. It could reduce the issue.

 

Anyway, let’s see if they can resolve it. It does sound like they are taking their time! :/  

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6 hours ago, betty boop said:

there is no THX unless getting the NX9 and I don't believe the nx9 has the yellowing ... it has different optics etc.

 

the yellowing is only reported on N5 & N7 units i believe. its repeatable and understand JVC knows about it and working on the issue.

Neither optics nor iris opening affects colour temperature (yellowing), show me a camera lens that shows such properties.

Lamp dimming most certainly does cause yellowing,  and since native contrast is lacking in the NX5 and NX7 it would seem JVC is dimming the lamp in dark scenes on those models in an effort to get more acceptable black levels. The NX9 has better native contrast and can get away without dimming the lamp and therefore does not suffer yellowing.

The previous E-Shift models "X series" had much better contrast than the "N series"  and did NOT use lamp dimming, therefore they don't suffer from the "yellowing" issues. Its as simple as that.

 

Dynamic contrast systems are inherently flawed, there is NO substitute for high NATIVE contrast which the "N" series lacks.

That being said, other manufacturers selling LCD projectors are offering far worse contrast then the base model N series, while others selling DLP projectors are providing FAR FAR FAR worse contrast.

Only Sony is in any way competitive with the N series JVC for native contrast, but the big problem for JVC is the N series is not competitive with the previoius X series. More pixels, which are bloody pointless, and less contrast which is VITAL.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, j19801110 said:

One thing to try on the N7 would be to add a mode for SDR with the filter in place and calibrate it that way. It could reduce the issue.

The colour filter CANNOT cause "yellowing", it affects all output levels equality.

EVERYTHING you view on a projector is SDR, like it or not.

The colour filter significantly reduces light output making "HDR" even more impossible. To get something closer to HDR the wide gamut filter MUST be disabled, don't worry you will never notice any difference in colour.

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On 09/06/2019 at 7:08 AM, betty boop said:

has anyone pointed to these issueshappening wiht anything else as source ?  ie regular uhd/blu-ray players appletv and such ?  ie not htpc/nvidia shield and such ? 

I have lately been getting a green screen on my N7 at power up. This happens on average about 1 in 6 times at power up. So far the only way I have found to remedy it is to power cycle the unit (frustrating because of the shutdown/ startup delay each time). I updated firmware from 2.04 to 2.08 but it made no difference to the problem. I found it happens much more often in Eco mode so I now leave Eco mode off. It makes no difference with no input (either all sources off or no HDMI cables connected to the projector) vs any input connected with any active source.  It seems it is a problem with the projector. Hopefully this will be addressed soon with a firmware update. I certainly don’t want to go through the hassle of taking the projector off it’s ceiling mount and returning it to the supplier for warranty repair. The unit has only done about 350 hours. Otherwise I love this projector and it’s the only problem I have experienced with A JVC projector, this being my third model in 12 years.

Edited by TrueRealist
Clarification

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11 hours ago, Owen said:

Neither optics nor iris opening affects colour temperature (yellowing), show me a camera lens that shows such properties.

Lamp dimming most certainly does cause yellowing,  and since native contrast is lacking in the NX5 and NX7 it would seem JVC is dimming the lamp in dark scenes on those models in an effort to get more acceptable black levels. The NX9 has better native contrast and can get away without dimming the lamp and therefore does not suffer yellowing.

The previous E-Shift models "X series" had much better contrast than the "N series"  and did NOT use lamp dimming, therefore they don't suffer from the "yellowing" issues. Its as simple as that.

 

Dynamic contrast systems are inherently flawed, there is NO substitute for high NATIVE contrast which the "N" series lacks.

That being said, other manufacturers selling LCD projectors are offering far worse contrast then the base model N series, while others selling DLP projectors are providing FAR FAR FAR worse contrast.

Only Sony is in any way competitive with the N series JVC for native contrast, but the big problem for JVC is the N series is not competitive with the previoius X series. More pixels, which are bloody pointless, and less contrast which is VITAL.

 

10 hours ago, Owen said:

The colour filter CANNOT cause "yellowing", it affects all output levels equality.

EVERYTHING you view on a projector is SDR, like it or not.

The colour filter significantly reduces light output making "HDR" even more impossible. To get something closer to HDR the wide gamut filter MUST be disabled, don't worry you will never notice any difference in colour.

You must not be aware, but the yellowing is a DI bug, which is affecting the gamma manipulation only on those models, its a confirmed real bug, and supposedly its source is hardware related and cant really be fixed...

 

JVC Is not dimming the lamp at all, they are using a DI like always.

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YES ! as per Javs above,

 

note and I cant remember if I posted manni's run down and he is only one I know who has explored extensively the yellowing issues and posted thoughts as a great sum up. will find and post if haven't already.

 

ps just checking manni's run down below from june on the n series overall (n5 & n9) - interesting what is left to resolve...

 

I believe yellowing and YCCC4222 12 bits ? are only two remaining major issues ? disabling the DI seems to fix the yellowing... which is not ideal in my opinion ... he doesnt pick up the other minor bugs the green screen and the stripes ? that some people still seem to be getting see above and reports on AVS. Got a feeling the stripes is ancillary hard ware related (shield and stuff that is dodgy HDMI wise). 

 

manni's run down from june on n series 5 and 7 

 

"Agreed, a few of other things you left out:

- No flickering with high APL/bright shots, the picture is much "calmer"
- The new filter means that an undersaturated green is much less frequent/significant. Older models often had a wrong hue for green (too yellow), which made green and all the points between green and blue, including cyan, undersaturated and uncorrectable. There can be a minor undersaturation of red, but much fewer points are affected. So overall, easier to get near reference in both SDR and HDR. Losing only 10% brightness in high lamp with the filter is also nice.
- Much faster HDMI sync (at least compared to my rs500, I know that more recent models had started to improve this). It's not related to PQ, but having a 5 secs black screen on every sync instead of an up to 25 secs black screen on every sync makes a HUGE difference in day to day use.
- Improved Autocal software, especially if your older model didn't support the i1pro2. Having the i1pro2 for color calibration makes a big difference, and being able to "reflect to all" a gamma calibration can save time too.
- If you care about this, 3D is even better on these new models.
- The magenta bug in 8bits with a HTPC has been fixed, so you can now use RGB 8bits 444, which you couldn't do with the earlier models (at least with nVidia, either at 60p or with all framerates depending on the driver version)#
- Hopefully the yellowing bug with the DI and the forced YCC422 in 12bits will be fixed (if the latter isn't a hardware limitation). At the moment these are the only two minor downsides I can think of compared to the previous models. The blooming of highlights with the DI (that gets worse as you open the DI, it's mostly fine at -8 or closer) was already present in the e-shift models, so that's not new. This seems to affect the rs1000-2000, apparently the rs3000 (at least some of them) seem to be spared."

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Thanks, guys. That’s all very interesting! Well, let’s hope they can work around the yellowing even if it’s a hardware issue. Since they have the ability to shift greyscale as the DI changes, it’s likely not impossible to fix by adding an offset to the internal tables only for the lower models. Obviously I’m not a JVC engineer and I’m sure if it was that simple, they would have done it already. 

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well good timing as a new N7 arrived in time for moving on my x7000 :) 

 

UNPACKING

Firstly I have to say JVC have VERY much beefed up the packaging on this new JVC series the polystyrene is very thick and solid and far more enveloping that on previous xXX00 series. I know as I could see one vs the other... side by side.

IMG_0031.jpeg

 

2ndly .... flipping eck ! 

 

IMG_0032.jpeg

 

these new JVC N series are a beast ! not only in size but also weight...

 

MOUNTING

I kid you not ... it took some extra care in lifting up onto mount and had to even make sure took one extra step up the ladder as there was no ways be lifting this thing up above my head ! 

 

IMG_0043.jpeg

 

the peerless mount also JUST takes this projector. It is SO front heavy the gear for up down tilt really dont have the heft to raise... ie will raise and then drop. I found I had to hand lift the front end to help the lift while adjusting and then LOCK in place with the locking screw ! 

 

but I was able to align to absolute perfection ...infact far better than did with the previous gen...perhaps should have done the same with those too. and mounted one look at these they remind me more off CRTs of old with their heft ! no nothing like the massive behemoths that old NEC CRT projectors were but we are getting up there in the limits I think of how big comfortable with in a projector in homely surrounds :D

 

am not so sure a fan of this matt finish on the projector though...loved the porsche black on the x7000 :D but then I suppose for HT duties a non reflective coating on the N7 is likely more suitable ... but I suspect also harder to keep clean with dust and such. 

 

No different in hook up vs older gen JVC. just notice the 3D emitter turns around 90 deg fitting in more snugly which is a good thing rather than poking out. 

 

FIRING UP

IT seems to fire up differently with no doubt the eco mode in effect. ie first hit of on button seems to wake from slumber 2nd actually switches on 

 

by default it fires up pretty loudly  ! which is a bit of a worry...but i notice factory setting is obviously high lamp. so move across to low lamp as no real need to run on high. instantly it is as quiet or if not slightly more quiet than my x7000

 

it seems to have firmware 2.09

 

hdmi synch seems far quicker but its still got some delay in latching on. not that synch delay is a bother as tend to get my self settled anyways which is usually longer than projector doing its thing. 

 

checking and setting focus this looks sharp ! . no convergence is not perfect... but then dont expect it to be with a 3 chip machine its never going to be perfectly aligned. am not one who believes in mucking with convergence and taking about step and half away from screen it looks great so leaving well alone. 

 

in aligning screen the motors sound quite different... not sure what have changed but lens adjustment seems far more controlled.

 

What I will say straight up though this is probably THE best out of box experience i have had with a projector ... these are it seems pretty much good to go. super impressed with how good looks just out of box with two discs I tried in The American on blu-ray and the shallows on uhd. 

 

OUT OF BOX SETTINGS - BLU-RAY

A quick check of setting shows that for blu-ray by default is is using 

 

for blu-ray "natural" and BT709 colour profile 6500k color temp and 2.2 gamma

MPC level is engaged with GRaphic mode : standard, enhance 5, smoothing 2 and NR 0

Motion control has latency off, CMD low and Motion enhance Low

 

the iris/apperture also is wide open out of box... which is pretty standard, iris i noted was on manual

 

I did some basic check on iris/apperture am getting 34 FC on low lamp , dialled that back for blu-ray however noticed -12 gave me 17fc and if dropped to -11 I would get 13fc ...so left on -12 iris moved across to Auto 2

 

did some basic adjustments with calibration disc. nothing much and tested with a few blu-rays in the american, brooklyn and mr and mrs smith. Super impressed with how comes up with some pretty basic setup. I noticed the MPC setup in turning on and off introduce some effect in use... noticed this in the american. so decided to switch all MPC to off. also turn off all CMD effects incase that was doing something as well. never been a fan of motion improving schemes...

 

OUT OF BOX SETTINGS - UHD BLU-RAY

switching over to UHD here really just checked for output on low and getting about 34FL which his great on low lamp for my setup, switched across from HDR to using the filter BT2020 (not seeing big drop in using the filter), also moved iris across to auto 2 did literally nothing else popped in the shallows uhd again and this too is looking great ! in last couple of days have also checked out the uhd's  Allied, mad max fury road, life of pi, billy lynn, interstellar and   the revenant.

 

CONCLUSIONS

Some conclusions .... I am not going to say N7 is a huge step up, especially considering it retails for some 50% more ! than x7000 did. selling the x7000 did ease some pain though... and id say on balance you are looking at some definite gains ... mainly i would say in stability of image and clarity and how good the tone mapping is and it does work great it would seem and even well with say life of pi where it is missing meta data. I look forward to seeing how well the scene by scene tone mapping works in next firmware release. 

 

so we are looking at some 20-25% up in gains over previous gen i would suggest in pure PQ terms if had to put a number on it. but id be hesitant to say much more than that. So more incremental than massive step up or anything like that...

 

CONTRAST ... now this was my biggest fear as I absolutely loved the x7000 for this .... especially given the step up it was from previous gen JVC I had and epsons have owned and also experienced more recently. Well some good news here. I am seeing fade to blacks as I remember....AND I am not it would seem missing anything contrast wise. one proviso my room is a non dedicated room so others might experience otherwise...however keep in mind even with conditions i have, i have been able to easily detect difference between previous gen and lower contrast projectors and last jvc i had. so i can only surmise in contrast in my condition atleast i am likely experiencing still a step up from gen before last projectors have owned and others seen, but not a huge drop from the x7000 to notice. what is perhaps making up for things is the stability in picture what appears to be less noise (eg mosquito noise in some sky shots and such - not talking grain) and how step up in sharpness / clarity / detail ? its all swings and round abouts i guess

 

on that there appear to be some lighter corners (not much ) but on up side i notice far far less streaking in scenes where have bright white text vs black background. eg interstellar than what saw on x7000.

 

ps with all the discs i have checked out so far. no green lines or white lines or yellowing or anything like that has been expreiced .... i'll take it ... its either my setup and condition are such or material used or just plain luck who knows but am not seeing or seen as yet any problems some might have reported with these. so fingers crossed but will keep eyes peeled incase pick anything up like that and if rears head ! 

 

IN SUMMARY

so all up worth it ?  :)  as an incremental upgrade am pleased... and look forward particularly in what comes with future updates to this range :) 

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13 hours ago, betty boop said:

"on that there appear to be some lighter corners (not much ) but on up side i notice far far less streaking in scenes where have bright white text vs black background. eg interstellar than what saw on x7000".

If you see streaks of white text on a dark background in real content - this is a defective product, and not a reason for joy. It is necessary to return the device to the dealer.

Edited by shartm

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51 minutes ago, shartm said:

If you see streaks of white text on a dark background in real content - this is a defective product, and not a reason for joy. It is necessary to return the device to the dealer.

thanks but no. streaking is something if wish to research will see goes way back with sony and jvc projectors particularly (ie higher contrast projectors) and can show you what is quite typical with even flag ship sonys. epson and jvc even. only in some very particular conditions. not normal in real content. however there can be conditions in real life where flaring can indeed also occur as does lens flare and such so not to be confused. 

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Congrats Al..... welcome to the N club

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On 20/09/2019 at 12:23 PM, j19801110 said:

If you are thinking of buying, jump on this now, guys. After all, new lamps cost 10% of the projector's price!  😉 

 

Someone suggested going for an "OEM version" of the lamp. Mmm, do it at your own risk! Is it worth messing up your projector with an aftermarket lamp? I've seen misaligned mirrors due to glue coming off, blown ballasts and premature aging of the panels due to this (that shift and age anyway). I say don't do it. 😕 

You say don’t do what? OEM is not a brand or aftermarket.

 

OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer, meaning he was suggesting fitting a new original lamp that the projector actually came with.

 

Cheers Terry

 

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23 minutes ago, TerryO said:

You say don’t do what? OEM is not a brand or aftermarket.

 

OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer, meaning he was suggesting fitting a new original lamp that the projector actually came with.

 

Cheers Terry

 

You have to be careful here because there’s been a lot of discussion on AVSforum as well about using “OEM” lamps - either bare bulbs or with housing - that were matched and appear to come from Oshio (the OEM if you wish) but they were definitely not put together by JVC. That’s why I put “OEM version” in quotation marks. 😉

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Lol, didn't think Al was ever gonna get the N7. I thought these things are broken Al : p

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I'd always suggest taking time and applying appropriate levels of caution and due diligence with new gear and especially where significant levels of hard earned are involved. caution to the wind is ok at times even for me and its ok also to take your own time till good and ready. As some might know, I'd also rather say it as it is ...so if find some aspect need fixing will most definitely do best i can to have resolved, see no point otherwise ... 

 

checked out a couple of movies today on uhd. in dunkirk and bladerunner 2049. both utter eye candy no doubt as can expect ...

 

Dunkirk UHD is a particularly good display of level of clarity and detail possible and a good showcase what this can do.. 

 

love the colours of bladerunner 2049... and good to see the tone mapping working pretty well here.  a few screen shots of scenes not that will capture in all glory but will give some ideas...

 

0I9A2434.jpeg

 

0I9A2433.jpeg

 

0I9A2435.jpeg

 

0I9A2432.jpeg

 

0I9A2437.jpeg

 

0I9A2439.jpeg

 

also watched a bit of FTA TV with the news later in the evening. Good to see projector handles pretty well what is sub par source .... :D ps this is off the fetch ...

 

0I9A2440.jpeg

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Al thanks for the screen shots.  Looking good for FTA.   I am going to try FTA via the Foxtel IQ4 upscaled to 4k from the box, then try AppleTV 4K for FTA streaming,   
Is the Fetch outputting at 4k or 1080p?

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2 minutes ago, Spizz said:

Al thanks for the screen shots.  Looking good for FTA.   I am going to try FTA via the Foxtel IQ4 upscaled to 4k from the box, then try AppleTV 4K for FTA streaming,   
Is the Fetch outputting at 4k or 1080p?

thanks spizz indeed was interested to see how did FTA as quite a few 4k screens have seen seem to make a mess off. the fetch is set to upscale everything to 1080p 50 I do this so screen doesnt have to re synch with all the different formats the channels seem to have when changing channels. I checked over all channels in SBS, ABC, ch9, ch7 and ch10. was pleasantly surprised. including with the ads :D 

 

we tend to watch a bit of stuff with fta eg anything thats good for larger screen eg sport, music (concerts and such ) even eurovision :D and things like that ! 

 

good point on apple TV will check that out when next get a chance :) 

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Nice Al. I just installed the N5 today and I must say out of the box it delivers a really nice picture. Looking forward to getting it calibtated after 100hrs on the globe.

 

Also is anyone else using a Logitech Harmony Elite remote? I went to add the N5 as DLA-N5 under add device but only comes up with the N9 and N7. I tried DLA-NX5 but didn't find it. I chose N7 to see if the commands are the same and there not. 

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14 minutes ago, SimonNo10 said:

Nice Al. I just installed the N5 today and I must say out of the box it delivers a really nice picture. Looking forward to getting it calibtated after 100hrs on the globe.

 

Also is anyone else using a Logitech Harmony Elite remote? I went to add the N5 as DLA-N5 under add device but only comes up with the N9 and N7. I tried DLA-NX5 but didn't find it. I chose N7 to see if the commands are the same and there not. 

congrats on the n5 Simon ! good to hear finding it really nice out of box. good thinking on the calibration still, can only bring out best. 

 

that is very curious on the n5 and harmony. dont they have same remote as n7 and would think much of functions same ? i think n7 just has the dual iris and bt2020 filter. ?  should be identical to n5 otherwise ? 

 

ps below is remote for n7 ... i suppose worst case can teach the harmony remote commands off the supplied jvc remote ? 

 

IMG_0059.JPG

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Search Harmony for RS1000 which is the same as the N5

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59 minutes ago, SimonNo10 said:

Nice Al. I just installed the N5 today and I must say out of the box it delivers a really nice picture. Looking forward to getting it calibtated after 100hrs on the globe.

 

Also is anyone else using a Logitech Harmony Elite remote? I went to add the N5 as DLA-N5 under add device but only comes up with the N9 and N7. I tried DLA-NX5 but didn't find it. I chose N7 to see if the commands are the same and there not. 

I recently updated my old 785 and the only choice it gave me was N9 (actually NX9). That's working for me. If you're finding your projector won't start it's because it's in Eco standby and needs two IR commands to come out of standby. Easiest fix is to put it into ordinary standby (the red light will stay on).

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4 hours ago, j19801110 said:

You have to be careful here because there’s been a lot of discussion on AVSforum as well about using “OEM” lamps - either bare bulbs or with housing - that were matched and appear to come from Oshio (the OEM if you wish) but they were definitely not put together by JVC. That’s why I put “OEM version” in quotation marks. 😉

Fair enough but the actual meaning of OEM is as follows,

 

 
OEM
noun
  1. original equipment manufacturer, an organization that makes devices from component parts bought from other organizations.
     
    Meaning a part that is used in the original equipment when assembled by the manufacturer.
     
    cheers Terry

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6 hours ago, Quark said:

I recently updated my old 785 and the only choice it gave me was N9 (actually NX9). That's working for me. If you're finding your projector won't start it's because it's in Eco standby and needs two IR commands to come out of standby. Easiest fix is to put it into ordinary standby (the red light will stay on).

Right ok thanks for that. I will try that when I get home from work. 

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14 hours ago, j19801110 said:

You have to be careful here because there’s been a lot of discussion on AVSforum as well about using “OEM” lamps - either bare bulbs or with housing - that were matched and appear to come from Oshio (the OEM if you wish) but they were definitely not put together by JVC. That’s why I put “OEM version” in quotation marks. 😉

I share your concerns , there are a lot of dodgy sh!te out there. and there is much to risk not only in projector but also in a mercury vapour bath when a lamp blows :D

 

mine came with a spare complete bulb and assembly, but I have asked for benefit of the community about what seems to be decent source. if zombie says they are good, i'll take his word for it. seem to be sourced by dominic chan on avs, seems to be shipping only to us and canada and 120usd a bare lamp only. could end up a bit pricey given our pretty limp exchange rate :) 

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2 hours ago, betty boop said:

I share your concerns , there are a lot of dodgy sh!te out there. and there is much to risk not only in projector but also in a mercury vapour bath when a lamp blows :D

 

mine came with a spare complete bulb and assembly, but I have asked for benefit of the community about what seems to be decent source. if zombie says they are good, i'll take his word for it. seem to be sourced by dominic chan on avs, seems to be shipping only to us and canada and 120usd a bare lamp only. could end up a bit pricey given our pretty limp exchange rate :) 

Yes that’s exactly right. :) 

Cool cool! Keep us updated how you go with the bare bulbs if you do get them. 

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