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anewmission

Atmos processor with decent analog section?

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On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 5:11 PM, anewmission said:

I think i am going to go with a emotiva dsp atmos pre, into a stereo pre and then use 4-5 power amps for the speakers. I have the power amps in a big rackmount unit so that will be completely out of the way, and i will have the pre amps within remote control reach.

Just a heads up @anewmission ; the only Emo atmos pre pro atm is the RMC1 and its not available in Oz yet . It needs a few good firmware updates 1st in any case . The XMC1 is still waiting for its atmos board and its replacement wont be around for a good while :winky: 

If you have a lot of emi/rf noise around your runs from fridge compressors;  air con etc   a proper balanced xlr run will stop most  hum and noise with its common mode noise rejection . Plenty of posts like this one  https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2183681-marantz-8802a-vs-7702-mk2-3.html#post43075322  

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Just a heads up [mention=261711]anewmission[/mention] ; the only Emo atmos pre pro atm is the RMC1 and its not available in Oz yet . It needs a few good firmware updates 1st in any case . The XMC1 is still waiting for its atmos board and its replacement wont be around for a good while :winky: 
If you have a lot of emi/rf noise around your runs from fridge compressors;  air con etc   a proper balanced xlr run will stop most  hum and noise with its common mode noise rejection . Plenty of posts like this one  https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2183681-marantz-8802a-vs-7702-mk2-3.html#post43075322  
I use an art 4x4 power conditioner. Actually 2 of them. Will that help or will i actually need different cables?

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12 minutes ago, anewmission said:

I use an art 4x4 power conditioner. Actually 2 of them. Will that help or will i actually need different cables?

I have a similar filter below for my sources @anewmission ; good protection and rf filtering for your ac power ; balanced lines are still effective for your delicate pre amp level signals though. For example speaker level signals from your power amps are much more robust which along with the speakers impedance explains why speaker cables very rarely use shielding - the current negates it to a great extent :)

That said it might be very effective at filtering rf entering your system ; I like balanced xlr because of the rats nest of overlapping cables in my system [and my equipment has the capability ] ; xlr doesn't cost a lot so its extra insurance is the way I look at it ..

http://www.picaust.com/Power-&-Lightning-Protection.html

 

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I have a similar filter below for my sources [mention=261711]anewmission[/mention] ; good protection and rf filtering for your ac power ; balanced lines are still effective for your delicate pre amp level signals though. For example speaker level signals from your power amps are much more robust which along with the speakers impedance explains why speaker cables very rarely use shielding - the current negates it to a great extent [emoji4]
That said it might be very effective at filtering rf entering your system ; I like balanced xlr because of the rats nest of overlapping cables in my system [and my equipment has the capability ] ; xlr doesn't cost a lot so its extra insurance is the way I look at it ..
http://www.picaust.com/Power-&-Lightning-Protection.html
 
Ok awesome i will take your advice! Im guessing its better to spend more money on interconnects and power cables than speaker cables? I was considering making my own silver speaker cables but i have tried multiple types of speaker cables and hardly notice a difference. And i have tried them on many different amps/speakers

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Thinking about it the one connection that has fried my electronics was the cable internet line into the router and then all computers and devices connected via ethernet were fried.

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4 hours ago, anewmission said:

Ok awesome i will take your advice! Im guessing its better to spend more money on interconnects and power cables than speaker cables? I was considering making my own silver speaker cables but i have tried multiple types of speaker cables and hardly notice a difference. And i have tried them on many different amps/speakers

Power cables are another matter . A good power amp with a solid regulated power supply that's earthed properly cleans up any hash it receives in the mains so Ime not a believer in expensive ac cables  :cool: With interconnects -if you go balanced- common mode noise reduction is effective on cheap just as much as dear .. your paying for the dac feeding a transformer for example - one method of deriving the + and -  for the balanced xlr output..

For speaker cables I try to match the impedance of the speaker [how easy it is to drive]; the cable length and the awg ; mine are average 14 awg ofc  nothing special ..

Ouch ; why do they have to put ethernet into a pre pro ; a thumbdrive will do for firmware upgrades and a music server can use hdmi  :)

Edited by cwt

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8 hours ago, anewmission said:
9 hours ago, cwt said:
I have a similar filter below for my sources [mention=261711]anewmission[/mention] ; good protection and rf filtering for your ac power ; balanced lines are still effective for your delicate pre amp level signals though. For example speaker level signals from your power amps are much more robust which along with the speakers impedance explains why speaker cables very rarely use shielding - the current negates it to a great extent emoji4.png
That said it might be very effective at filtering rf entering your system ; I like balanced xlr because of the rats nest of overlapping cables in my system [and my equipment has the capability ] ; xlr doesn't cost a lot so its extra insurance is the way I look at it ..
http://www.picaust.com/Power-&-Lightning-Protection.html
 

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Ok awesome i will take your advice! Im guessing its better to spend more money on interconnects and power cables than speaker cables? I was considering making my own silver speaker cables but i have tried multiple types of speaker cables and hardly notice a difference. And i have tried them on many different amps/speakers

IMO power cables is the last place to spend money, but of course that's up to you.

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7 hours ago, joz said:

IMO power cables is the last place to spend money, but of course that's up to you.

Ime not sure which of my components have standard iec computer cables ? All of them I suspect B)

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Ime not sure which of my components have standard iec computer cables ? All of them I suspect B)
Yeh i use iec male to iec female straight from the power conditioner.

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So sinve the emotiva atmos pre wont be available for a while. Can anyone suggest another atmos pre in thw sub 1500 dollar range?

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25 minutes ago, anewmission said:

So sinve the emotiva atmos pre wont be available for a while. Can anyone suggest another atmos pre in thw sub 1500 dollar range?

Atmos prepros start around $3.5 to 4K in Australia.  And if the Emotiva was available here, it would be at least that price.  For $1,500, you will be looking at a mid tier AVR with preouts.  Budget AVRs often do not have preouts.  Yes, the amps will be unused, but that is how the market has evolved, with prepros at the expensive top end and AVRs fill the rest of the range.

 

My suggestion, outside your budget, is the NAD T758V3 with Dirac Live, which can be purchased around $2K, but sometimes can be lower.

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Atmos prepros start around $3.5 to 4K in Australia.  And if the Emotiva was available here, it would be at least that price.  For $1,500, you will be looking at a mid tier AVR with preouts.  Budget AVRs often do not have preouts.  Yes, the amps will be unused, but that is how the market has evolved, with prepros at the expensive top end and AVRs fill the rest of the range.
 
My suggestion, outside your budget, is the NAD T758V3 with Dirac Live, which can be purchased around $2K, but sometimes can be lower.
I was just thinking about future proofing, as i am renting at the moment theres no way i can mount ceiling speakers. Though i am looking to buy real estate very soon. So i guess i could look for a prepro without atmos and dtsx but could still do native 4k. If they exist and that will tie me over for the moment. Not really interested in those speakers that point at the ceiling and are supposed to bounce off the ceiling.

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For some reason i thought the emotiva basx 7.1 pre had atmos. It doesnt, i must have jumped to that conclusion when i read 4k.. Still it looks like it could be the right solution as its about 1000aud

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Unless you are prepared to import the Basx yourself, suggest not using it as your benchmark. 

 

HT gear changes rapidly and future proofing is expensive. With a $1.5k budget, get something which meets your needs now and look at used gear. 

 

Suggest you review your current needs to determine what is important e.g. no Atmos, do you need 4k now, can you live with one box, how many channels, can you live with an AVR  etc...  What are must haves and what are nice to haves? 

 

This thread has meandered so better if you start a new one with your budget, your revised needs, your existing gear, your room etc The more info you provide, the easier it will be for people to guide you....

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Unless you are prepared to import the Basx yourself, suggest not using it as your benchmark. 
 
HT gear changes rapidly and future proofing is expensive. With a $1.5k budget, get something which meets your needs now and look at used gear. 
 
Suggest you review your current needs to determine what is important e.g. no Atmos, do you need 4k now, can you live with one box, how many channels, can you live with an AVR  etc...  What are must haves and what are nice to haves? 
 
This thread has meandered so better if you start a new one with your budget, your revised needs, your existing gear, your room etc The more info you provide, the easier it will be for people to guide you....
The emotiva mc 700 is available at apollo hifi in sydney at apollo hifi for $1050.
Its 4k prepro without atmos.
The thread is still valid because i am still looking for the dsp and stereo pres.
I have plenty of power amps just need the two pre amps. One for home theatre and a stereo pre with ht bypass.
Im still going to check out some of these atmos avr's with pre outs. I may even use some of the speaker outputs on an avr to save some money on electricity bills woth so many power amps

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Ok, I got confused.  Suggest editing your topic title to take out atmos.

Please note that 4K video support is only pass through and is the same capability on current AVRs/prepro.  

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What about a used receiver like these which have just been superseded ?

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v2083/index.html

they have quite a few Atmos receivers, but ofcourse there are other brands which could offer similar features.

and they do have amps on board saving the need for extra amplification purchases if you haven’t got them already.

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2 hours ago, anewmission said:

The emotiva mc 700 is available at apollo hifi in sydney at apollo hifi for $1050.
Its 4k prepro without atmos.
 

The mc700 had some teething problems early on because it uses a hybrid 4k/2k hdmi pcb board solution@anewmission . Make sure you can return it if you plug in a combination of 4k and 2k sources and check the switching between them :) HDCP switching should be fine if you just feed it 4k sources ; gotta love hdmi ..

 

Otherwise its got its advantages over an avr ;  you get to keep your power amps when you upgrade . I had its predecessor UMC200 and was very happy with it ; heres a review

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/surround-sound-speaker-systems-reviews/emotiva-basx-home-theater-audio-system-review/

Do some bargaining :cool: https://www.stereophonic.com.au/emotiva-mc-700-home-theatre-processor

 

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The mc700 had some teething problems early on because it uses a hybrid 4k/2k hdmi pcb board solution[mention=261711]anewmission[/mention] . Make sure you can return it if you plug in a combination of 4k and 2k sources and check the switching between them [emoji4] HDCP switching should be fine if you just feed it 4k sources ; gotta love hdmi ..
 
Otherwise its got its advantages over an avr ;  you get to keep your power amps when you upgrade . I had its predecessor UMC200 and was very happy with it ; heres a review
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/surround-sound-speaker-systems-reviews/emotiva-basx-home-theater-audio-system-review/
Do some bargaining :cool: https://www.stereophonic.com.au/emotiva-mc-700-home-theatre-processor
 
I just searched a youtube video of emotiva at ces feom earlier this year. The product rep said they are releasing another 3 processors based on their new atmos dsp this year. Ranging from 1000usd to 5000usd. So maybe i should just wait. Im guessing there will be a basx model. Here is the link.

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Now also considering a used nad modular pre and upgrading the modules

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7 hours ago, anewmission said:

I just searched a youtube video of emotiva at ces feom earlier this year. The product rep said they are releasing another 3 processors based on their new atmos dsp this year. Ranging from 1000usd to 5000usd. So maybe i should just wait. Im guessing there will be a basx model. 

That product rep is Dan Laufman ; he owns the company :whistle:  He has his plate full with the RMC1 ; then comes the XMC1 atmos board ; etc . It will be many many months before any 1k pre pro turns up ; named products like the RMC2 and the XMR1 avr  top of the line will be 1st ..

If you can find a reliable NAD and upgrade with an am230 card and vm card for uhd sources you can do it in stages . But make sure you have a reliable version ; some were quite flaky before the current 758v3 etc :) 

https://support.nadelectronics.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006178893-Which-MDC-options-are-available-for-my-product-

Edited by cwt

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That product rep is Dan Laufman ; he owns the company :whistle:  He has his plate full with the RMC1 ; then comes the XMC1 atmos board ; etc . It will be many many months before any 1k pre pro turns up ; named products like the RMC2 and the XMR1 avr  top of the line will be 1st ..
If you can find a reliable NAD and upgrade with an am230 card and vm card for uhd sources you can do it in stages . But make sure you have a reliable version ; some were quite flaky before the current 758v3 etc [emoji4] 
https://support.nadelectronics.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006178893-Which-MDC-options-are-available-for-my-product-
What about the nad m15hd? "ive seen them come up in the classifieds for $650. Plus another $800 for the atmos module. Could be a good option fod under 1500

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5 hours ago, anewmission said:

What about the nad m15hd? "ive seen them come up in the classifieds for $650. Plus another $800 for the atmos module. Could be a good option fod under 1500

If its a reliable one . Good its a masters series . You would need a vm module as well if you want to pass UHD sources . You would need the AM17 card ;the AM230 dirac card is incompatible . Some circuitry is incompatible with earlier models so 

Quote

Please confirm with your dealer/distributor for all upgrades before purchasing.

 

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Sorry to hear your experience with them was not positive.

Been a customer on and off for over 40 years and never had an issue, in fact they have been more than helpful.

If there are warranty issues, yes go back to the retailer, but if no joy there, I contact the distributor, or even the manufacturer.

Emotiva, well I would rather go with Yamaha, Marantz, or if you can pick one up, an Anthem(my preference).

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We have a NAD T758v3 with a C275BEE on the HT system. It doesn’t compete with the 2 channel (but that’s $10k worth of dedicated pre/pwr amplification) and it’s pretty damn good on 2 channel.

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