Martin Logan Impression ESL 11A

[Orpheus]

A year and a half ago, I visited the Lifestyle Audiostore at North Parramatta, and auditioned the 11A, 13A, and 15A models in the Martin Logan range.

 

I had previously fallen in love with the CLX, when they came out. They are a remarkable pair of speakers, but they are really too big for my listening space.

 

I was interested to see how far Martin Logan had progressed with the integration of woofers and panels. At least in theory, a properly integrated woofer and panel is a good solution, as it allows the panel to play to its strength (mids and highs), while relieving it of responsibility for the lowest frequencies.

 

However, in the past, the integration between panel and woofer has been noticeably imperfect, and problematic.

 

Counter-intuitively, I felt that the least expensive of these speakers, the 11A was the best integrated, and the most enjoyable to listen to. As a bonus, at $16,000, it was also about $10,000 less than the 13A.

 

I couldn't justify the expense at the time. After all, I had a pair of Audio Physic Avantera speakers, which are more expensive, and very competent.
 

However, sooner or later, such itches must be scratched, and when Lifestyle Audiostore had a sale, I was in contact with Vinod, who is very good to deal with, and is prepared to go the extra mile to make customers happy.

 

I am now the very satisfied owner of these speakers, which are very easy for my amps (Audio Research Ref 250s) to drive.

 

They have the energy, transparency, and detail of electrostatics, together with far more power than I need. 

 

I think the reason they work so well is that they have small (8 inch), dipole woofers (firing front and back), a single cross-over point at 300 hz, and no doubt some handy electronics optimising the integration of the woofers with the panels.

 

With the 13As, the woofers are 10 inches, and with the 15As, they are 12 inches. I found these woofers did not integrate as well.

 

As an added bonus, you can boost both lower bass and mid-bass with controls on the rear, and, with the addition of Anthem Room Correction (via the Martin Logan Perfect Bass kit) for a further $150 (basically, a calibrated microphone and software), you can add room correction in the bass, to tame room issues.

 

I haven't done this yet, but the kit is on the way.

 

I am quite happy with the factory settings, but I do have a very difficult room to deal with, so room correction may give me a further benefit. I will report back.

 

Meanwhile, I would recommend a listen to this series if you are interested in electrostatics, as I think they are Martin Logan's most successful effort yet (though the purists might still go for the CLX, which are still in production).

 

 

[cafe67]

Good write up, i looked at the esl11 and the esl9 out of interest. Concluded that the esl11 was the better speaker, but would not work properly in my 4m x 4m room. 

 

Be interested to hear about your room size and room setup. Piccies are always nice

[Orpheus]

Will get onto this evening.

[Sparkle]

I haven’t heard the new range yet..... I have heard the CLX with a very competent front end and remember it as one of my most outstanding Hifi experiences. 

Electrostats can be very addictive. 

[TerryO]

Hi @Orpheus

 

I have written previously about how good the new Martin Logan ESL's are, I too listened to them at the Lifestyle store and fell in love with them soon after they first came out. I had originally gone there to try out Vienna Acoustic's top end The Music speakers and found that both the 11a and 13a's made the big Vienna's sound a little bit ordinary.

 

I personally preferred the 13a's extra bass over the 11a, for the want of a better term, cleaner sound, but would happily live with either and hopefully some day will.

 

cheers Terry

Edited February 4, 2019 by TerryO

[sfdoddsy]

Are those woofers dipole?

[Orpheus]

On 09/02/2019 at 11:52 AM, sfdoddsy said:

Are those woofers dipole?

Apparently it's a bit more complicated than that; they do fire in opposite directions, so in that sense, they are dipole, but the electronics which power them fiddle around with this, according to this review;

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/martinlogan-impression-esl-11a-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker/

 

Whatever they are doing seems to work pretty well.

[Orpheus]

Here is the explanation in the review, for what it is worth. I don't really understand it;

 

"At first I assumed the cabinet was to allow the woofers to mimic the panel’s dipole radiation. In fact, with help from the digital circuitry, the two woofers, crossed over at 300Hz, are made to work in a kind of sliding phase arrangement whereby the phase shifts with frequency in order to suppress the backwave and also to prevent frequency-specific cancellations that may result from woofers arranged to mimic dipole radiation. According to Vojtko, digital manipulation of phasing directs most of the two woofers’ output forward, not toward the back wall, an arrangement claimed to facilitate setup and speaker placement: “The sliding phasing is weighted toward the frequencies where directionality is more critical, where the manipulation of the phasing is taking place, and the woofers come into phase together at the lower frequencies.”" 

[Nada]

Its a cardioid bass design. The rear bass driver is used to cancel the back spreading wave from the front driver by manipulating its timing. This means the second bass driver and amp are  used to decrease bass output.The magic is forward directional bass. The opposite of dipole. 

 

[Sub Sonic]

Sounds like the woofers might be set up to operate as dipoles at upper bass frequencies and as bipoles/omni at lower bass frequencies.

 

This would help match the radiation pattern of the panels at upper bass frequencies but give good low end extension without large woofers/baffles.

[Big Dog RJ]

On 04/02/2019 at 1:16 PM, Orpheus said:

A year and a half ago, I visited the Lifestyle Audiostore at North Parramatta, and auditioned the 11A, 13A, and 15A models in the Martin Logan range.

 

I had previously fallen in love with the CLX, when they came out. They are a remarkable pair of speakers, but they are really too big for my listening space.

 

I was interested to see how far Martin Logan had progressed with the integration of woofers and panels. At least in theory, a properly integrated woofer and panel is a good solution, as it allows the panel to play to its strength (mids and highs), while relieving it of responsibility for the lowest frequencies.

 

However, in the past, the integration between panel and woofer has been noticeably imperfect, and problematic.

 

Counter-intuitively, I felt that the least expensive of these speakers, the 11A was the best integrated, and the most enjoyable to listen to. As a bonus, at $16,000, it was also about $10,000 less than the 13A.

 

I couldn't justify the expense at the time. After all, I had a pair of Audio Physic Avantera speakers, which are more expensive, and very competent.
 

However, sooner or later, such itches must be scratched, and when Lifestyle Audiostore had a sale, I was in contact with Vinod, who is very good to deal with, and is prepared to go the extra mile to make customers happy.

 

I am now the very satisfied owner of these speakers, which are very easy for my amps (Audio Research Ref 250s) to drive.

 

They have the energy, transparency, and detail of electrostatics, together with far more power than I need. 

 

I think the reason they work so well is that they have small (8 inch), dipole woofers (firing front and back), a single cross-over point at 300 hz, and no doubt some handy electronics optimising the integration of the woofers with the panels.

 

With the 13As, the woofers are 10 inches, and with the 15As, they are 12 inches. I found these woofers did not integrate as well.

 

As an added bonus, you can boost both lower bass and mid-bass with controls on the rear, and, with the addition of Anthem Room Correction (via the Martin Logan Perfect Bass kit) for a further $150 (basically, a calibrated microphone and software), you can add room correction in the bass, to tame room issues.

 

I haven't done this yet, but the kit is on the way.

 

I am quite happy with the factory settings, but I do have a very difficult room to deal with, so room correction may give me a further benefit. I will report back.

 

Meanwhile, I would recommend a listen to this series if you are interested in electrostatics, as I think they are Martin Logan's most successful effort yet (though the purists might still go for the CLX, which are still in production).

 

 

Good stuff mate, and those ARC Ref 250's are outstanding amplifiers to drive these to their full potential. That's basically SOTA in hybrid stats, designed by a very fine company who have been at it for decades... 

 

I finally acquired my dream stats just last year Sept, the CLX ART. Driven full range (no subs or artifices...) with a full line up of Conrad Johnson amplification, and I must say these full range stats do sound very special when driven with tube monoblocks, at its finest! 

 

I've just auditioned the new reference standard from Magnepan, the 30.7's and have posted a brief review. They were exceptionally beautiful driven by top of the line Dan D'Agostino momentums and the new Dan D Relentless monoblocks. It was definitely an outstanding work of art and sound at its finest but meant for much larger rooms than average...

 

This chap also owns the CLX's along with a few other special transducers, such as the Infinity IRSV and the legendary Martin Logan Statement Evolution II system. I've heard these before at his place and they were in a completely different league. 

 

However, whenever he sets up the mighty CJ ART300 monoblocks (top of the line using KT150's) partnered with the CJ GATS2, driving the very same CLX's, they're in a class of their own! 

 

I'm just glad and extremely grateful I was able to acquire the CLX's last Sept, and this is where it ends for me... The express train stops here! 

 

Enjoy those hybrids, it will get only better from this point onwards. The materials used in these new Masterpiece series along with the X-stat topology is like no other. It's a proprietry design and ML pays Joe Vjotko big bucks to retain his genius audio engineering talent for all ML designs. They're just marvelous! 

 

Cheers mate and have a good one! 

RJ

[Steever]

ML fan.

I came here for the pics.

 

 

 

Disappointed.

[Big Dog RJ]

Disappointed? 

 

What pics are you after... 

RJ 

[Guest Music monster]

The clx is in a class of its own for a electrostatic speaker that has no bass response below 50 hz, this to me is not a true full range speaker and alot of bass, timber and fullness in sound is missing in action.to achieve full range sota sound a speaker must have full bass output to at least 30hz. A speaker that does not ,can not create a true live performance.bass extension is critical to overall sound quality.hear a doublebass played thru a speaker that cannot reproduce bass to 30 hz,than hear a live doublebass or a speaker with bass extension, it's a big difference.so its beyond words to me at least how anyone can call a speaker with 50hz bass limit as a sota speaker I certainly dont.gary the music monster.

 

To further add to it,speakers without bass extension make double bass ,bass drums, organ and many other instruments sound small and compressed . That’s way a lot of people use subs to fill in the weakness of there speakers, that’s fine ,but a truly highend speaker would and shouldn’t never require subs, such as the stunning magnapan 30.7s a true full range speaker that reproduces the full range of sound as close to a live event than just about any speaker in the world regardless of price.gary the music monster

 

Electrostatic speakers will always have a lean and clinical sound that’s on the dry side.tube equipment helps but it still remains there.thats the  weakness in these speakers and Martin Logan have tried to overcome this problem, but there seems no way around it. Many music lovers have given up on them and moved to Maggie’s as they are much fuller, more musical and true to life.others stick with Logan’s and goodluck to them.gary the music monster

[Big Dog RJ]

Here we go again,

 

Hey G-monster, 

 

This original thread is NOT about your best in the world Maggie 30.7's, or CLX's for that matter. You always seem to have issues grappling with people who are passionate about the way natural music is reproduced...

 

This post is about a person named Orpheus, who now is a very happy owner of a new pair of ML Impression speakers. He's also using superb SOTA ARC monoblocks, so I think you need to appreciate what he's got and what others have heard on my CLX's. This seems to bother you a lot! I also think you've got the whole point wrong. 

 

1. This post is about ML hybrids and full range stats have been mentioned, simply because they believe their purer, and more transparent and they are!

 

2. An open bass note played "unamplified" in the natural form, the lowest note it reaches is only around 42hz, and that full range stats can capture very well. Most open bass notes don't even go that low. Only the organ and bass cello can go low but not what you're referring to, thats not natural. 

 

3. If you are listening to open bass notes through speakers and thinking that is natural, and the bass extension is also natural, then I'm affraid you are not listening to natural music, rather you prefer artificial stage effects.

 

Since you seem to be the expert in natural music and the way it should be reproduced in full frequency, perhaps you should send your findings to Martin Logan head quarters in Lawrence Kansas. Tell them how they should better design their speakers, maybe they may learn something from the "music monster".

 

Why bother explaining anything further... 

BTW, you've hijacked this thread. Stick to what's being discussed, it is Orpheus who has discovered the remarkable transparency of ML stats. 

 

I'm very happy for him, and hope to listen to his wonderful system one day without prejudice... 

 

RJ

Edited March 14, 2019 by Big Dog RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

On a final note, I would like to add and I've stated this many times before;

 

We must appreciate every type of system designers create. The tremendous amount of time and effort put into their designs are for everyone to choose and enjoy, although not everyone may be able to afford.

 

Whatever type of amplification used, transducers chosen and ancillary gear selected, if that particular system provides pure musicality to the owner, that's about all that matters, regardless! 

 

If the user / owner is truly happy with what they have and have achieved a particular type of sound focused solely on the type of music they listen to, then they're enjoying their music! 

 

Sadly, it seems like there is still someone out there that thinks unless it's a McIntosh or a Maggie 30.7, the rest is a bad sound from a terrible system... Oh dear me, we can't possibly listen to such systems and enjoy our music. Hence the "good luck" notion to stat users, watch out! After a while we may turn purple and suddenly explode!

 

I better run off before it does actually explode!

 

Cheers to you Orpheus, enjoy those stats! Hope one day in the near future I'd get a chance to audition your ARC amps driving the Impression's. I've heard these many times with solid state but not on fine ARC amps. That should be a very engaging sound. Cheers, 

RJ

[Guest Music monster]

Your wrong raj bass extension is critical to hearing sound as it is live. Just as speakers that have high frequencies to 40 thousand kHz , no we cart hear that high , but it sure improves the sound of what we can hear , the same gos for the bass. Just look at stereophile , to be full range class a the speaker has to have bass extension down to 20 hz otherwise it does not make the grade.the Logan’s neolith makes that grade and that’s way they are the flagship, so would the 30.7s.i have hi jacked nothin, and I understand everyone has different tastes.i bought the hifi that sounds best to me and it is the Best Buy a country mile to me, I don’t care what other people think or say it doesn’t upset me at all the way it upsets you.people that get upset must not be fully satisfied with what they have.there is no best it’s what the person likes. Gary the music monster

[AudioGeek]

*sigh*

[Guest Music monster]

Sigh is a good idea mate.I just speak the honest true in what I like.I have learnt in this hobby everybody likes there own hifi and just enjoy and be very greatfull for what you have.gary the music monster.

[Nigel]

Lot of opinion in there, Gary. Referencing Stereophile's classification does not  justify anything, it is just another arbitrary opinion.

Who says 20-20k or 40k is what defines FullRange ??  Common convention ? doesn't make it rule or fact... just convention.

Yes, you hijacked this Logan ESL thread to rave about your Maggies....

[Guest Music monster]

What maggies I don't have any. Anyway I apologize to everyone for hijacking this thread.gary 

The music monster.

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Music monster
Add

[cafe67]

Good grief

[Big Dog RJ]

Now I suggest we all sit back, pour that scotch, light that cigar and enjoy the music! 

Unfortunately I can't do that since I'm at work... But will be very soon

We've got stock take, another long night out... 

Cheers to all, and have a good one. 

RJ 

 

PS;  we haven't heard from Orpheus yet, who was the OP, wonder how his Impressions are going? Hope they're awesome! 

[warweary]

Pictures would get this thread back on track... just saying.  Looks alright.

[Sparkle]

Wow!  Always better to be listening to music than raving....