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Naim CD5 XS Upgrading Queries


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Hi I'm Crusader 2 my system consists of : Ruark Crusader 2 Loudspeakers,Densen B200 Pre,Densen B330 Pwr.Amp,Naim CD 5,Naim Flatcap 2X (purchased from NAP 250 in 2016),Bi-wired Spkrs with Chord Epic Cable & Chord Signature I/C for the CD 5.Can anyone give me any Insight into whether a Naim CD 5XS would be an improvement in terms of detail & soundstaging,with or without a Flatcap,please.I have trialled a Naim CDX2.2 in my system & it was overbearing @ times, but I did enjoy the detail & depth.I have no way of trialling a Naim CD5 XS in my system ! I listen  to a broad mix of music types but favour Jazz & Blues.Another consideration I have is that my Ruark Crusaders are pretty lively (they are Bass Reflex design with a 'long throw woofer') & having a 75mm Dome mid range driver (similar I believe to PMC & ATC speaker models) are pretty loud.As a probable comparison a British magazine testing a large pair of Tannoy loudspeakers set the volume level @ 3:00pm & equivalent volume level for a pair of Mk 1 Crusaders @ only 11:00pm.My Thorens TD 320 Turntable & Naim CD 5 are both mounted on Quadraspire Reference shelves

Edited by crusader2
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On 21/01/2019 at 11:10 AM, crusader2 said:

Can anyone give me any Insight into whether a Naim CD 5XS would be an improvement

The Naim cd 5 uses a TDA1305 dac chip, which is a "Bitream" (delta sigma) dac chip, if you like it stay with it, as it's sweet, smooth and won't startle you with any slap in the face/guts dynamics, good for ??? whatever, lift music/dinner parties perhaps?

 

The Naim CD5 XS is a different beast, it has I believe the best PCM redbook converter made in chip form, the  R2R multibit PCM1704K (selected) dac chip, 2 of them.

It will slap you in the face with dynamics,  kick you in the guts cause cracks to appear in the walls, with it's bass power, and it has the best HDCD filter chip, the PMD200.

 

No need to tell you which I prefer.

 

Cheers George  

 

 
Edited by georgehifi
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Hi George,

Thank you very much for the information.In your reply I guess you are not including the influence of a Flatcap might have on the performance characteristics you describe.One wonders what listening to the 1812 Overture would be like ! My Densen B330 has 110,000uF of Capacitance & is good in the Bass so I guess my system wouldn't hinder the CD 5XS's output !

 

Cheers Bob

Edited by crusader2
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10 minutes ago, crusader2 said:

I guess you are not including the influence of a Flatcap

The flat cap still won't make the CD5 do what the CD5xs can do. it would be good though if you have one to keep it and put it with the CD5XS, that would be a killer, up there close to the Naim CD555 and p555power supply. Can't believe the money the CD555 and P555 demand these days, they seem to ask more each year for them. Bit like my Linn CD12 MkIII

 

Cheers George

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Hi @crusader2, I'm glad the flatcap is still going strong (I have changed from NAP 250 after selling all my Naim gear).  There are a number of reviews where people prefer the CD5X to the CDX2 not sure about the later version.  I have owned both the CD5X with the flatcap I sold you and a CDX2 which I recently sold to buy a Gieseler Gross Dac with power supply.   I would have loved try the X2 with an XPS power supply but that would have cost more than the CD player itself.  The X2 has a lot more bass and a smoother presentation (which some might find a bit more laid back) than the 5X with flatcap combo. They both have great PRAT and are very enjoyable.  In my case I moved on to the Gieseler Gross Dac which is a much better match in my current system and allows me to utilise Tidal and my digital library.

 

If you enjoy your current cd player then I'm with George in that the newer combo should sound a lot better.  The 5XS is Naim's entry level reference CD player a very capable performer and doesn't give away too much to its bigger siblings in my experience.

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Hi George,

I must say in response to your comment about dynamics of the CD5 XS.My replay of the the Beatles 'Day in the Life' doesn't have the build up of tension & impact of the crescendo @ the end that previous HI - Fi setups I have had ! So also being a lover of tonal qualities of instruments,especially Sax.I will have plenty to look forward to when I eventually upgrade ! 

 

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6 hours ago, crusader2 said:

Beatles 'Day in the Life'

Have to watch these old ones on cd.

Years ago I found the stereo or remixes of these old ones to be very ping pong in their left and right sound placement. I didn't like this at all, and it made the sound thin also, but the same on vinyl was much better, richer and not so ping pong. 

 

I thought about it, and the only reason was that a vinyl cartridge while reasonably flat in frequency response, has at best around 35db stereo separation in the mid band, lows and highs are even worse, especially in the bass more like 5-10db, it's almost mono, this mono'ising of the bass could very well add the richness to the mids, giving a richer sound to those old recordings.

 

What I did was to put a left to right resistor bleed network on the CD players output so it only gave 30db channel separation instead of 120db across the board from 20hz to 20khz this made those left right  ping pong old 60's  CD sound much better. If you make a channel separation bleed network to mimic a vinyl cartridge separation curve (red) like below I think it would be even better again, and switch it out when playing  70-80's or higher. 

 

Related image

 

 

Cheers George

Edited by georgehifi
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Thank you deanB.You say that the CD5XS is only discontinued for a while, interesting ! So I guess that parts will become more readily available down the track ! Yes i'd like to take advantage of the Sound Reference price soon, but I'm recovering from a shoulder injury & my Flatcap 2x might need recapping !

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Sorry mate, I meant that it was discontinued a while ago so won't be available once existing stock is sold.

I've got a Cd5x with a TeddyCap psu and I love it. You're definitely on to a good thing for cd playback if you get a 5XS.  

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Hi deanB,Is yourTeddyCap psu equivalent to a Naim HiCap in performance ? Some time ago I did hear a Naim CD 5 XS with possibly a NAP 250 & a HiCap DR driving small Scandanavian stand mounted Speakers @ Melbourne Hi Fi.The disc was a classical piece,Sophie Mutter (the Violinist) with the Wiener Philharmonic & also the London Symphony Orchestra.Tonal colour & detail was very impressive.Although some members of some Forums think the Flatcap Series are a better balance with the 5 Series Cd Players

Edited by crusader2
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On 28/01/2019 at 10:52 PM, deanB said:

Sorry mate, I meant that it was discontinued a while ago so won't be available once existing stock is sold.

I've got a Cd5x with a TeddyCap psu and I love it. You're definitely on to a good thing for cd playback if you get a 5XS.  

Good to see it is still going strong. I really enjoyed that CD player. 

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2 hours ago, crusader2 said:

Hi deanB,Is yourTeddyCap psu equivalent to a Naim HiCap in performance ? Some time ago I did hear a Naim CD 5 XS with possibly a NAP 250 & a HiCap DR driving small Scanadanavian stand mounted Speakers @ Melbourne Hi Fi.The disc was a classical piece,Sophie Mutter (the Violinist) with the Wiener Philharmonic & also the London Symphony Orchestra.Tonal colour & detail was very impressive.Although some members of some Forums think the Flatcap Series are a better balance with the 5 Series Cd Players

Yes, Teddy Pardo makes the TC as a replacement for the HiCap. Whether it's equivalent in performance, I can't say as I have never used a Naim psu. But it's been very effective in that the 5X sounds even more analog with the TC hooked up. And it's very good value for money. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Pardo psu if required.

 

28 minutes ago, PKay said:

Good to see it is still going strong. I really enjoyed that CD player. 

Hasn't missed a beat, Peter. 

I was tempted to buy your X2 but I've got such a good synergy going with the 5X in the system, I decided to leave well enough alone.

Regards,

Dean.

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Hi deanB, Do you find the Teddy Cap with your 5X smooth in the Top End ? I sometimes find with my CD 5 & Flatcap 2X that some of the old Jazz CD'S can be bit 'bright' on piano !

Edited by crusader2
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Yes, I do find that. Due to tinnitus, I'm sensitive to bright treble.

I bought the 5x as a possible replacement for a Bryston Bcd-1 but both players sounded similar until I took a punt and added the Teddycap. Since then I regularly enjoy sessions that can go for 4-8 hours, sometimes longer with no listening fatigue.

 

 

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 I did have more of an issue with treble effect when I had my Ruark Spkrs tri-wired & an Audio Synthesis CD i/c.

Probably my Pwr.Amp was struggling @ bit @ times,also.Listening is a more relaxing these days tho' !

 Maybe a Teddy Cap could be an option for me down the track,I like the thought of the Analogue sound you mentioned.I think my Analogue Yamaha tuner @ times is a more favourable listen.Don't know how I would get to audition it tho' in my system.I did think the Naim CDX2.2 was probably overpowering  my system a bit @ times, thinking maybe a Teddy Cap would have a similar effect ?

Edited by crusader2
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With the psu in place, the individual sounds of instruments, voice inflections, fast lead guitar, etc, everything has a bit more of its own space whilst still remaining timed, coherent and rhythmic. And I think that results in less listening fatigue. 

So is it a case of when the information contained on a recording blends together ever so slightly during playback, maybe you get a slight wall of sound effect that can seem dynamic and impressive but is ultimately wearying on the ears and brain?

Anyway, bear in mind you're having a discussion with a person who has tinnitus. The 5xs isn't a Cdx2, you may not need a psu for it and even if you do, a TeddyCap is $606aud and it works.

 

 

 

Edited by deanB
Got price wrong
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 Sorry to hear that you have Tinnitus.I guess it must be a somewhat annoying factor in listening to music & life in general !

  I guess down the track I'll be trying out a CD 5 XS with my Flatcap before making any further decisions about PSU'S !

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2 hours ago, crusader2 said:

 Sorry to hear that you have Tinnitus.I guess it must be a somewhat annoying factor in listening to music & life in general !

  I guess down the track I'll be trying out a CD 5 XS with my Flatcap before making any further decisions about PSU'S !

In my experience there was a huge difference going from a flat cap to hicap. Also a huge price difference to match. I was always tempted but never got around to trying the TP. 

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I will be listing my Naim CD5XS for sale in the next week.  I'm just not using it enough to justify holding onto it. 

I have been using the CD5XS it as a transport with the Naim NDX but at the end of the day preferred it as a stand alone player.  

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