The wonderful NBN.

[ThirdDrawerDown]

Time to finish our NBN story, and I hope the @Wimbo household that started this thread is sorted out better than us.

 

To recap. Here at the thirddrawerdown we've been on Optusnet since 2002 using a cable connection with an unlimited download plan at 30 mbps peak times.

 

Got a letter in 2017 saying we would be on NBN by May 2018, please be NBN ready. So after research I bought a router that looked like a face-hugger from Alien so we could frictionlessly move between ISPs and improve our wireless across the property. May 2018 came and went with no news from NBN. 

 

I daisy-chained the router to the cable modem.

 

A letter in Nov 2018 said expect NBN in May 2019, FTTC, and was followed some months later by sporadic sightings of fluoro in the street. In May 2019 we got a letter from Optus saying we were now NBN ready.

 

This marked the start of a series of 4 or 5 letters at increasingly close intervals saying we would have our internet cut off if we didn't take action to continue with Optus with a NBN account, with cutoff date of 16 August.

 

@davewantsmoore had said that too many phone jacks could deteriorate NBN quality so in August we got in an electrician for a few jobs including to relocate the internet cable point and reduce the household to a single phone outlet next to it in the home office. NBN got in touch and arranged a date to do the FTTC NBN-to-household NBN modem install and connect.

 

As I've posted earlier, this is when we found out we were ready for the NBN but they weren't ready for us, given that the necessary wire was not in fact connected to the house but was coiled in a loop tied to the top of the phone pole on the other side of the street. A week or so after the abortive NBN technician's visit, a chap, I'm guessing from Telstra, came by with a big ladder and strung the offending cable across to our house. (The cable turns out to be a Telstra asset).

 

We pick up the story afresh. Now that we had an unsightly wire strung through the trees, the NBN technician reappeared to install the NBN modem. "You've shown me the Optus line, where is the Telstra line?" he asked, causing much concern, before disappearing into the roof space. After fiddling in the roof space and with tiles, he reported, "I found it. They're meant to put it inside the roof space but they just left it coiled on the roof tiles. No problem, all done." Blue lights glowed on the NBN modem.

 

I unplugged the cable modem and installed the face-hugger. I was faced with passwords, IP addresses and password changes for the face-hugger. Due to Windows, I hate networking or anything that could be mistaken for networking. A call to Nearby Nerd solved that, for a sum of money.

 

Of course, we had no landline. Of course, the wire-over-the-road hassle had resulted in the landline porting to our new ISP being postponed to 2 September. Meantime my elderly mother who lives overseas had been trying to phone us due to some post-operative troubles. More mobile phone calls and queuing and the landline porting now has been brought forward.

 

Which is slightly academic at the moment. What I didn't realise is that landline phones need a VOIP adapter so as to work off the NBN. For just over $70 we've bought a Cisco SPA112 to plug into the router. There are cautionary notes on ebay in the customer comments on this item that say, in effect, "Do your research on this NBN VOIP owner-supplied router issue, as your mileage may vary". Anyway, it arrives on Friday and then we will have phone as well as internet.

 

Speaking of internet, how is our world-class upgrade doing? Well, I looked for a plan at the same price point as our existing all-you-can eat 30mbps plan, and the best on offer has a data cap of 100GB and delivers at 22mbps.

 

Adding up the cost of router, VOIP adapter, nerd and shouting at people, the entire experience has been horrible and the value nil.

Edited August 20, 2019 by ThirdDrawerDown

[zippi]

@ThirdDrawerDown I dread my own rollover to the NBN slated for sometime in 1st or 2nd quarter 2020. Thanks for a comprehensive run-down of your NBN experiences and certainly hope things improve for you (and the rest of us), though I'm not holding my breath at all.

[davewantsmoore]

32 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

This marked the start of a series of 4 or 5 letters at increasingly close intervals saying we would have our internet cut off if we didn't take action to continue with Optus with a NBN account, with cutoff date of 16 August.

To be very clear... this is not the NBN threatening to cut you off.

 

This is an aggressive decision by Optus, as it works out better $ for them.... they're not good ISP... but the whole idea of the NBN is in the future you're not locked into a world of "we're the only provider you can choose" (like you were in the cable mono/duopoly).

 

35 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

As I've posted earlier, this is when we found out we were ready for the NBN but they weren't ready for us, given that the necessary wire was not in fact connected to the house

This is a common occurrence.   Unless there are good records from Telstra/Optus, then nobody knows until they go on-site.

 

This was one of the big(ger) reasons people in the industry were saying it's not a good idea to buy the old copper and cable networks from Telstra (and Optus) as they are poorly maintained.

 

Quote

 

The cable turns out to be a Telstra asset

 

No.  It's an NBN asset now (we purchased it from Telstra when we voted LNP) .... Telstra are just contracted to do the work.

 

ie.   hey we'll buy your cruddy network, AND we'll get you to do all the work to fix it up.

 

Quote

What I didn't realise is that landline phones need a VOIP adapter so as to work off the NBN.

Your ISP was responsible for explaining this to you  (ie. encouraged you to buy a router which supported this, if you wanted a phone)

 

On the original NBN design (those who got FTTP or wireless/sat)....  You can purchase phone services which work like an ordinary phone (ie. don't need VoIP equipment on the customer side).

 

Quote

 

"Do your research on this NBN VOIP owner-supplied router issue, as your mileage may vary"

 

Indeed.   Have you discussed it with Optus?    Some ISPs are very restrictive on how they provide their VoIP services.

 

43 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Speaking of internet, how is our world-class upgrade doing?

Excellent!?

 

There really isn't anything out of the ordinary about what you've posted.   I know you really want to have a whinge, but that's the reality.

 

It would have been a really good idea not to go down the "MTM" path in many ways ..... but all the bleating sheep who couldn't wait and thought it was expensive .... wanted to kick out the guys they blamed.... not realising that the guys they voted IN were responsible for the delays in getting the NBN started (late 90s to mid 200s) ..... and had a WORSE plan for the NBN build.

 

Sad .... but it's the reality of "say one thing do the opposite" politics we suffer from, and people lap up.

46 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Well, I looked for a plan at the same price point as our existing all-you-can eat 30mbps plan, and the best on offer has a data cap of 100GB and delivers at 22mbps.

What;s the price point... I'm sure I can help you.   Optarse cable isn't usually a great deal, so I'd be floored if it can't be beaten.

 

46 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

and the value nil.

You are missing the big picture.

 

Although the big picture is lost, if nobody sees it .... as they will vote for someone to abandon it (the plan all along).

• Flip the old assets
• Centralised planning
• Deregulate and sell the centralised planning monopoly
• Deregulate cellular in a "don't worry this will fix it" response

 

Sometimes I berate myself for being naive enough to think we ever had a chance.

[davewantsmoore]

23 minutes ago, zippi said:

@ThirdDrawerDown I dread my own rollover to the NBN slated for sometime in 1st or 2nd quarter 2020. Thanks for a comprehensive run-down of your NBN experiences and certainly hope things improve for you (and the rest of us), though I'm not holding my breath at all.

Why?

 

There was zero issues with what he got.

 

Talk to your ISP.... buy a supported router from them.    Done.    (Don't buy an incorrect one yourself, and pay for support when you can't make it work).

 

If you're in a HFC area, then you might not have a telephone line .... and someone will have to come and give you.... they probably won't know that until they come to your house.

 

It;s super unlikely that NBN will be slower or more expensive than your existing Telstra/Optus cable internet deal.

[Wimbo]

2 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Time to finish our NBN story, and I hope the @Wimbo household that started this thread is sorted out better than us.

 

To recap. Here at the thirddrawerdown we've been on Optusnet since 2002 using a cable connection with an unlimited download plan at 30 mbps peak times.

 

Got a letter in 2017 saying we would be on NBN by May 2018, please be NBN ready. So after research I bought a router that looked like a face-hugger from Alien so we could frictionlessly move between ISPs and improve our wireless across the property. May 2018 came and went with no news from NBN. 

 

I daisy-chained the router to the cable modem.

 

A letter in Nov 2018 said expect NBN in May 2019, FTTC, and was followed some months later by sporadic sightings of fluoro in the street. In May 2019 we got a letter from Optus saying we were now NBN ready.

 

This marked the start of a series of 4 or 5 letters at increasingly close intervals saying we would have our internet cut off if we didn't take action to continue with Optus with a NBN account, with cutoff date of 16 August.

 

@davewantsmoore had said that too many phone jacks could deteriorate NBN quality so in August we got in an electrician for a few jobs including to relocate the internet cable point and reduce the household to a single phone outlet next to it in the home office. NBN got in touch and arranged a date to do the FTTC NBN-to-household NBN modem install and connect.

 

As I've posted earlier, this is when we found out we were ready for the NBN but they weren't ready for us, given that the necessary wire was not in fact connected to the house but was coiled in a loop tied to the top of the phone pole on the other side of the street. A week or so after the abortive NBN technician's visit, a chap, I'm guessing from Telstra, came by with a big ladder and strung the offending cable across to our house. (The cable turns out to be a Telstra asset).

 

We pick up the story afresh. Now that we had an unsightly wire strung through the trees, the NBN technician reappeared to install the NBN modem. "You've shown me the Optus line, where is the Telstra line?" he asked, causing much concern, before disappearing into the roof space. After fiddling in the roof space and with tiles, he reported, "I found it. They're meant to put it inside the roof space but they just left it coiled on the roof tiles. No problem, all done." Blue lights glowed on the NBN modem.

 

I unplugged the cable modem and installed the face-hugger. I was faced with passwords, IP addresses and password changes for the face-hugger. Due to Windows, I hate networking or anything that could be mistaken for networking. A call to Nearby Nerd solved that, for a sum of money.

 

Of course, we had no landline. Of course, the wire-over-the-road hassle had resulted in the landline porting to our new ISP being postponed to 2 September. Meantime my elderly mother who lives overseas had been trying to phone us due to some post-operative troubles. More mobile phone calls and queuing and the landline porting now has been brought forward.

 

Which is slightly academic at the moment. What I didn't realise is that landline phones need a VOIP adapter so as to work off the NBN. For just over $70 we've bought a Cisco SPA112 to plug into the router. There are cautionary notes on ebay in the customer comments on this item that say, in effect, "Do your research on this NBN VOIP owner-supplied router issue, as your mileage may vary". Anyway, it arrives on Friday and then we will have phone as well as internet.

 

Speaking of internet, how is our world-class upgrade doing? Well, I looked for a plan at the same price point as our existing all-you-can eat 30mbps plan, and the best on offer has a data cap of 100GB and delivers at 22mbps.

 

Adding up the cost of router, VOIP adapter, nerd and shouting at people, the entire experience has been horrible and the value nil.

Sorry to hear about the crap you have been going through mate.

All our cabling is underground. Since the first lot of crap we have had a constant 90/35 connection. That being said, I had some fools from TPG go to our pit, opened it, stuffed around with it and left the cable lying outside the pit. Not long after, we lost connection. Got onto Aussie (who have been great) and sent them Pics. They sent them to NBN who cancelled the app for help.

Aussie got back onto them and we finally got a tech out who fixed two O/C's at the pit and put an insulator on as well. We went back on and check the speed which ended up at 108 down. Its been fantastic ever since. Just checked the speed now and its 96/37 with a ping of 5MS. Very happy.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Wimbo
Not IINET> TPG.

[Wimbo]

 

@ThirdDrawerDown Go someone better then Optus if you can mate. I gave them away back in the 90's as all they did was lie.

[Guest Karl Rand]

6 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

 

@ThirdDrawerDown Go someone better then Optus if you can mate. I gave them away back in the 90's as all they did was lie.

The best service provider I’ve used is Internode. Problem is NBN often don’t communicate to Internode or other providers  advanced  warning of planned outages. As these can run to several days, if not more , and as we still pay for an enitre months service I keep wondering how NBN can get away with it. 

[Guest vagabond]

I'm allegedly a couple of weeks away from being connected with FTTC, second prize in the Fraudband Lottery™. I've had ADSL through TPG for well over a decade, with no problems except their horrible support. But, I don't want or need a landline, and they won't connect me without one (and they take $20 of my money as a prepayment on phone calls I'm never going to make). So, as a matter of principle, I'm moving to Aussie Broadband who seem to be well regarded for an ISP, and it's cheaper for the first six months. In any case, we'll be paying less for unlimited/100Mbps* because we no longer need to be paying The Filth (Telstra) for a landline that only attracts beggars and thieves.  My modem is also on the way, a simple modem router without wireless, as I have a mesh system.

 

I win, as long as it actually gets connected and it works.  Now to wait and see what happens next.

 

 

 

 

 

*not actually 100Mbps.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by vagabond

[Wimbo]

16 hours ago, vagabond said:

I'm allegedly a couple of weeks away from being connected with FTTC, second prize in the Fraudband Lottery™. I've had ADSL through TPG for well over a decade, with no problems except their horrible support. But, I don't want or need a landline, and they won't connect me without one (and they take $20 of my money as a prepayment on phone calls I'm never going to make). So, as a matter of principle, I'm moving to Aussie Broadband who seem to be well regarded for an ISP, and it's cheaper for the first six months. In any case, we'll be paying less for unlimited/100Mbps* because we no longer need to be paying The Filth (Telstra) for a landline that only attracts beggars and thieves.  My modem is also on the way, a simple modem router without wireless, as I have a mesh system.

 

I win, as long as it actually gets connected and it works.  Now to wait and see what happens next.

 

 

 

 

 

*not actually 100Mbps.

 

Good luck mate and remember to only have one connection on the copper in the house.

[aussievintage]

23 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Well, I looked for a plan at the same price point as our existing all-you-can eat 30mbps plan, and the best on offer has a data cap of 100GB and delivers at 22mbps.

Are you factoring in that you no longer need pay for a landline?  This saves me $30.  I had a $50 plan for the internet, so now I can get an $80 plan and break even.  That get's me the same unlimited downloads and 50 mb NBN, so I double my speed over ADSL.

[davewantsmoore]

22 hours ago, Karl Rand said:

Problem is NBN often don’t communicate to providers  advanced  warning of planned outages.

At the risk of sounding like a hard-core apologist for NBN  (that's not my intention, honestly ... Just providing the facts) .... I feel the need to point out that this is not usual for the network as a whole.

 

 

... but at the end of the day, if YOUR service provider is not delivering you a satisfactory service (days outages with no notice) then flex your muscle (wallet).    I don't necessarily mean leave .... I mean tell them you're not paying for those days, or it's TIO.    I'm sure they'll figure something out   

[davewantsmoore]

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

I'm allegedly a couple of weeks away from being connected with FTTC, second prize in the Fraudband Lottery™.

Depends on how you go within the FTTC lottery.    What's your copper like? ... and the situation with the nodes in your street?

It might be hundreds of mbps ... or might be multi gbps.    :-S

 

 

 

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

I've had ADSL through TPG for well over a decade, with no problems except their horrible support.

This is typical of all the big players.    TPG (incl. iiNet and Internode) have a good/big network ... and as long as you don't have a  fault, or need support, you are golden.

 

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

But, I don't want or need a landline, and they won't connect me without one (and they take $20 of my money as a prepayment on phone calls I'm never going to make). So, as a matter of principle

It isn't they won't.   They can't .... short of installing their own ADSL equipment in your telephone exchange which $$$$ (you'd need lots of customers connected to it for a long time).

 

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

I'm moving to Aussie Broadband who seem to be well regarded for an ISP

They are good... but I wonder how they make money.

 

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

 and it's cheaper for the first six months. In any case, we'll be paying less for unlimited/100Mbps* because we no longer need to be paying The Filth (Telstra) for a landline that only attracts beggars and thieves

Just to be clear  (it might be ME that's confused here .... but in case it's you) ..... when you're on the NBN, no provider requires you to have a phone line.     So if you stay with TPG on the NBN, you won't be required to have a phone line.

 

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

I win, as long as it actually gets connected and it works.  Now to wait and see what happens next.

The best thing you can do (perhaps wait an see how you go first) ... is make sure that where the telephone line comes into your property, that it goes directly to one socket (where you connect the modem) and nowhere else.

 

DSL faults on FTTC are almost always either a botched install (it never works from the start, contractor fault) ... and then once that is fixed, the customers internal wiring.

22 hours ago, vagabond said:

*not actually 100Mbps.

That's up to your ISP   

[davewantsmoore]

14 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Are you factoring in that you no longer need pay for a landline?  This saves me $30.  I had a $50 plan for the internet, so now I can get an $80 plan and break even.  That get's me the same unlimited downloads and 50 mb NBN, so I double my speed over ADSL.

... and 20x upload speed  (makes a lot of difference, if you are loading the network up with a bunch of stuff)

[aussievintage]

6 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

... and 20x upload speed  (makes a lot of difference, if you are loading the network up with a bunch of stuff)

Might make these silly cloud storage ideas usable even, maybe  

[Guest vagabond]

10 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Just to be clear  (it might be ME that's confused here .... but in case it's you) ..... when you're on the NBN, no provider requires you to have a phone line.     So if you stay with TPG on the NBN, you won't be required to have a phone line.

 

 

It's you

[rantan]

2 hours ago, vagabond said:

It's you

No it isn't.

When anybody is connected to the NBN they are definitely not required to have a phone line.        @davewantsmoore is 100% correct.

When we were connected to our FTTN service we ditched the landline and haven't ever missed it. In fact I am pleased it has gone, no more spam calls from India.

[Guest vagabond]

21 minutes ago, rantan said:

No it isn't.

When anybody is connected to the NBN they are definitely not required to have a phone line.        @davewantsmoore is 100% correct.

When we were connected to our FTTN service we ditched the landline and haven't ever missed it. In fact I am pleased it has gone, no more spam calls from India.

I must be making it all up then.

 

Oh wait but.

 

Maybe you could explain how this snip an email from TPG sales fits in with your literally bold statement:

Quote

Phone is fixed component of the service. The initial $20 pre-payment is charged at point of sign up to cover the costs of any calls that may be made from the service. All TPG NBN plans are offered to customers as a pre-paid bundle of Internet & Home phone. Using the home phone service is up to you. Simply plug a handset into our Modem and you have the added advantage of a home phone service for friends and family to reach you on at no additional monthly cost to you. This is another terrific benefit to taking up a TPG NBN Bundle.

I understand that you are not intending on using the home phone component. As our NBN plans are offered as prepaid Internet and home phone bundles, we charge a small $20 pre-payment at point of sign up to cover the costs of any calls that may be made from the service. If you choose not to make calls ever, then no further pre-payments will ever apply to your account. The benefit of providing a pre-paid bundle is that we can accept all applications without the need of credit checks.

 

Try signing up for NBN with no phone line here: https://www.tpg.com.au/nbn

 

Or read their FAQ on that same page, where you will find

Quote

Once an NBN Bundle plan is purchased, you cannot separately cancel either component (NBN Broadband or Voice Service). Cancellation will cease both services. You cannot purchase either TPG NBN Broadband or Voice Service as a standalone service.

 

You'll also find that in the event you cancel the service TPG keep the $20, which is the reason I am not continuing with them (it's basically theft).

 

 

[rantan]

@vagabond

 

Fair enough mate it seems clear but I don't know of any other ISP who does this.

 

Very strange.

[aussievintage]

15 minutes ago, vagabond said:

All TPG NBN plans are offered to customers as a pre-paid bundle of Internet & Home phone.  Using the home phone service is up to you. Simply plug a handset into our Modem and you have the added advantage of a home phone service for friends and family to reach you on at no additional monthly cost to you.

That is NOT a phone line (or landline).  That's a VOIP phone run over the internet.

[rantan]

Seems like a complete scam to just steal $20 off every customer.

My apologies @vagabond, I agree that this is nothing more than legalised theft.

[aussievintage]

7 minutes ago, rantan said:

Seems like a complete scam to just steal $20 off every customer.

My apologies @vagabond, I agree that this is nothing more than legalised theft.

 

It does seem odd, but then, they call it a pre-paid bundle.  If you buy a pre-paid sim for your phone, you don't get back anything if you don't use it.  

[Wimbo]

Wow. I started a 35 page Topic that is Under Moderator Watch seven months later. Impressed. 

Thanks all.

[Guest vagabond]

 

2 hours ago, rantan said:

Seems like a complete scam to just steal $20 off every customer.

My apologies @vagabond, I agree that this is nothing more than legalised theft.

No probs, it's a weird way to do business. They used to pull the same stunt with their mobile phone service.

2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

It does seem odd, but then, they call it a pre-paid bundle.  If you buy a pre-paid sim for your phone, you don't get back anything if you don't use it.  

True,  and if I wanted a phone I'd probably just go along with it.  But I don't want it, I'm certainly not going to pay to have it, so they've lost my business. 

[davewantsmoore]

3 hours ago, vagabond said:

I must be making it all up then.

Oh wait but.

Maybe you could explain how this snip an email from TPG sales fits in with your literally bold statement:

They are not talking about a "telephone line" .... like you had before  (ie. a physical one, which costs $20 per month)

 

What they're saying is that every internet service they sell, also comes with an "internet phone"  (sometimes called "VoIP" voice over internet).

 

They're wanting you to pay $20 of call credit ... and then you top up the credit later after you've made some calls.

 

If you call them, and tell them you really really don't want an internet phone service .... then I'm sure they'll turn it off (and of course not get you to pre-pay the $20 credit)

 

..... but as said.  This is not the "telephone line" you have had in the past  (nothing like it).

 

3 hours ago, rantan said:

Fair enough mate it seems clear but I don't know of any other ISP who does this.

Most ISPs include an "internet phone" service with their plans now days.   Although I haven't heard of any who ask you to pre-pay credit on it up front.    ie. they just bill you after you make the calls....   and of course, many people just choose not to use the internet phone service (and don't even know they have it).

[davewantsmoore]

On 20/08/2019 at 3:48 PM, vagabond said:

I'm moving to Aussie Broadband

Who do similar to TPG.

 

If you look at this page https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/nbn-plans/

 

.... and go down to the home phone section.   You'll see it's free to have the phone.   They recommend you spend $10 each month (the default, unless you change it).   etc.

 

 

As mentioned.... You will find if you speak to TPG, that they let you choose similar options.   Although I'd lean towards Aussie for other reasons.