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Wimbo

The wonderful NBN.

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It looked like I was gonna miss out on the crap,but no, I've copped it.

I'm advised I'm getting FTTC.

In 2017, I was told March, April 2018 for connection.

This passed. In June/July I saw the boys come down my street and replace all the pits as well as putting the backbone in.

I asked a couple of them, "What does this mean" and they advise me , maybe 4 months odd and it should be connected.

I checked the Roll Out time frame and sure enough, it said December 2018.

GREAT.

That came and went and I kept checking and rang and was advised of a small hold up but connection should be soon.

Now, everyone in my street is connected, (12 Houses) except me and my next door neighbour.

We have now been advised, July 2020. I was furious. I try to never complain and just cop it up the Jaxy but this made me see red.

I sent them a complaint and today waited 40 minutes to be told its a house by house situation and my place has problems with access.

I asked, "Can I please talk to someone who has their finger more on the pulse" and was told, NO.

I'm confused. I have connection and use ADSL2, 7meg down (wow) and they can't connect me for 18 months? WTF.

Can someone please advise how I can attack this problem and dispatch all that are in the way?

Thanks in advance.

PS. Tomorrow I will be writing my local member and telling him how much of a disappointment Turnbull was.

Any other forms of attack?

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1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

Exciting isn't     😜

I ride motorbikes and used to do 400ks a week on a bicycle in Sydney peakhour putting me in five different hospitals mate, that exciting. This is more like getting a gun and going and seeing whoever is organizing this and getting compensation.

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There may be various logistical reasons why you and your neighbour missed out.

  1. You're on the wrong side of the street.  NBN service areas often don't match up with the existing Telstra network areas.
  2. You and your neighbour are connected on a copper cable installed in the street that is directly buried in the ground rather than run through a conduit or duct.
  3. If the street cable is in a conduit (not the conduit on your property) there is a possibility it's too small a diameter for NBN to draw their optical fibre cable through it with an existing copper cable in-situ.
  4. NBN have incorrectly estimated the number of services required in your street or area which has resulted in poor planning of the FTTC.

In the case of 2 and or 3 above, NBN will need to provision a conduit in which to haul their optical fibre cable through.  So if they say 2020 that's a distinct possibility.  I empathise with your predicament.

 

Cheers,

Alan R.

Edited by Monkeyboi
added extra words for clarity

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We had NBN installed at work (it's to all intents and purposes a house, repurposed as professional rooms). There was a delay as NBN had to apply to the Council for a permit to dig up the footpath to complete the installation at our particular address. This wasn't required for the rest of the street, and, we had to wait for Council to process it.

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3 hours ago, proftournesol said:

This wasn't required for the rest of the street, and, we had to wait for Council to process it.

So you waited a year and a half?

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42 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

So you waited a year and a half?

No, 2 months. You may have a problem that's out of NBN's control though

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11 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

No, 2 months. You may have a problem that's out of NBN's control though

/Sigh

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7 hours ago, Wimbo said:

Any other forms of attack?

You do know that someone has to go last, right?!

 

Without knowing the exact reason, it's difficult to judge....  but it sounds pretty reasonable/normal to me. 

7 hours ago, Wimbo said:

my place has problems with access.

Not at all uncommon.   Some of the problems aren't super quick fixes either - when they're often only discover when people get on the ground and have a look.

7 hours ago, Wimbo said:

Can someone please advise how I can attack this problem and dispatch all that are in the way?

Wait, unfortunately.

7 hours ago, Wimbo said:

PS. Tomorrow I will be writing my local member and telling him how much of a disappointment Turnbull was.

I agree the "MTM" style NBN is a mistake .... but not because of the type of issue you have here (they can happen on any/all technology types).

When we first had NBN announced as ready for service in our area, nobody on my block could get a working connection due to a fault further up in the network.   This left us all without internet for ~6 months, as all of the DSL providers had already stopped providing DSL in the area..... I'd call up Telstra (or whoever) looking for a DSL service, and they'd say "you need to get NBN" .... "no, NBN doesn't work in my area".    It was 2014 so it was still fairly slow 3G (a few mbps up/down).

 

At my next house, we got skipped as it was not possible to bring in fibre through the existing conduit... and the span was too long to deliver aerial fibre (good thing too, the other side of the steet has that, and it looks stink).    Anyways, so ~9 months later, we finally get a new conduit laid all the way through out property.

 

8 hours ago, Wimbo said:

I asked, "Can I please talk to someone who has their finger more on the pulse" and was told, NO

Was this with your ISP, or NBN?   What didn't they know/tell, that you thought they should have?     This strategy (without a more specific request) was never bound to get you very far.    If there's something you want to look further into, PM your address and I can see what I can dig up. 

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31 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

You may have a problem that's out of NBN's control though

Well.... all problems are "within NBNs control" here per se. .... but you might mean a problem than "NBN didn't cause".   They find it when they go out investigationing.... and then have to schedule time to remediate it. 

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10 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

If there's something you want to look further into, PM your address and I can see what I can dig up. 

Thanks Dave, will do.

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I found the reported ~7mbps DSL speed to be lower than what would be expected for this address.

 

Suspect something like a "end of the line" telephone network situation, where things like Alan mentioned (poor records, below quality cable, or no conduit) are a little more common.

 

New design, and/or cabling might be needed..... but new cabling could be a real plus for someone on FTTC if the area has marginal quality infrastructure.   Later on down the track many gigabits will be possible, given a good quality copper loop into the house.

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Still waiting for any sign of the NBN where I am. NBN website says Jan-Jun 2020 and FTTC. No correspondence or notification of any kind received yet. Speed check this morning says 3.52Mbps. Woohoo, that's the fastest its been for a while!

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, emesbee said:

Still waiting for any sign of the NBN where I am. NBN website says Jan-Jun 2020 and FTTC. No correspondence or notification of any kind received yet. Speed check this morning says 3.52Mbps. Woohoo, that's the fastest its been for a while!

Sounds the same as Wimbo.   You probably have not the best wiring, which NBN discovered when they went into your suburb..... and you'll need some sort of work done to bring you up to standard.

 

The silver lining is, being up to standard is a very good thing.   If people near you don't get work done, they may find later they are in the situation where their FTTC works fine up to 100mbps (ie. the products which are available today) .... but in the future, once X number of gbps are available, that they can't connect reliably at the faster speeds.

 

 

Unless the NBN is well regulated (our government has bad history on this) ..... people not being able to attain those higher speeds is sure to result in large sections of the population being "left behind" for a decade or two (eg. I can get 10gbps and you can get 100mbps .... ie. 100x slower) .... before something sparks off "NBN Version 2" .... where the politics of "what are the terms", and "who will pay for", the work to fix the "legacy wiring".

 

It will be much more toxic than NBN v1 .... as 40% of the population will have no need to vote for (or desire to pay for) "NBN v2.

Edited by davewantsmoore

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Your lucky on ADSL to get 7meg down, I was only getting 3.8meg when I had it. 

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7 is substantially less than a rough line trace to his address guestimates he should receive.....   would likely indicate complex or substandard neighbourhood wiring.

 

So Wimbo, it's probably really Howard that you should be directing your rage to, rather than Turnbull.  ;)     The assumption being that different politics in the 90s might mean your suburb was better wired/maintained .... or that we all already had FTTN a decade ago (kinda like New Zealand).

Edited by davewantsmoore

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They did the rest of the town in 2016 - early 2017 except for our place and some of the other small acreages along our street.  Places early in the street are done (with something?) and the ones past us can get fixed wireless.  The as yet vacant blocks of a new subdivision along our back fence can supposedly get wireless.  Interestingly our pool, the green houses and the bottom of the block can get wireless according to NBN coverage maps, but not the house area, (which is the high point).  NBN have never sent us anything and have not replied to a request for information.  Maybe they are just waiting until we subdivide or leave.

 

I am taking the approach now that I want to have the last blinking DSLAM in Aus - bugger them; even if our 2Mb DSL only has 6dB SNR and is attenuated by 63.5dB.  Yes, that wiring isn't even suitable for DSL, but why no wireless either.  I am coming to hate the whole thing.

 

 

Edit

PS.  there is little or no mobile phone reception either, so G4 or G5 data would appear to be out of the question as well.  Apparently phone reception is OK in the middle of the street - not that I have a mobile.  You would think that we live beyond the black stump except the council rates say "no" to that.

Edited by aechmea

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5 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Sounds the same as Wimbo.   You probably have not the best wiring, which NBN discovered when they went into your suburb..... and you'll need some sort of work done to bring you up to standard.

 

The silver lining is, being up to standard is a very good thing.   If people near you don't get work done, they may find later they are in the situation where their FTTC works fine up to 100mbps (ie. the products which are available today) .... but in the future, once X number of gbps are available, that they can't connect reliably at the faster speeds.

 

 

Unless the NBN is well regulated (our government has bad history on this) ..... people not being able to attain those higher speeds is sure to result in large sections of the population being "left behind" for a decade or two (eg. I can get 10gbps and you can get 100mbps .... ie. 100x slower) .... before something sparks off "NBN Version 2" .... where the politics of "what are the terms", and "who will pay for", the work to fix the "legacy wiring".

 

It will be much more toxic than NBN v1 .... as 40% of the population will have no need to vote for (or desire to pay for) "NBN v2.

 

Yes, its quite possible that there are valid reasons for the delay. It seems to me though that there is often a huge gap between what has been promised and what is being delivered, with inadequate explanations to people as to why that is. Expectations start to turn to cynicism when no explanations are offered at all. My street has coax cable running down it, and the NBN website initially showed my address as being scheduled for HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) in 2019. That plan was presumably changed due to technical reasons (possibly because they wouldn't be able to guarantee that those already on coax would continue to get the level of service they are used to). Meanwhile, some friends of mine who live just a few streets away were fortunate enough to get fibre to the home early on, before politics intervened. 

 

So, I while am cautiously hopeful that things will turn out well, I have tempered my expectations considerably. They have already delayed the delivery date and changed the delivery method, and I still have not received ANY direct correspondence about what they are planning to do and when they will do it, other than what I can see on their website.

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Thanks to everyone that responded, especially @davewantsmoore and @Monkeyboi. You have made an old man less stressed.

Humble Pie were a great band and I re emailed April at the NBN and apologized for my original aggressive email.

I will post on here when I get news.

Cheers.

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2 hours ago, aechmea said:

NBN coverage maps, but not the house area, (which is the high point).  NBN have never sent us anything and have not replied to a request for information.  Maybe they are just waiting until we subdivide or leave.

Ok.   In the situation where the property (according to NBN) is partially covered by fixed wireless, but not your house.    There are a number of ways to approach this.

 

Convince NBN, or hire your own "antenna man" .... to come on site and measure the actual signal strength at the location where you would want the antenna.   You may find there is stronger signal there than NBN estimates.

 

Your other option is to arrange a non-standard install, and put the fixed-wireless antenna somewhere else on your property (it will need power), and then get the signal to your house by whatever means you like (wireless, cable, whatever).

 

2 hours ago, aechmea said:

that wiring isn't even suitable for DSL

Sure it is  ;)   ADSL services in Australia are only considered faulty when they are cannot reach stability at 1.5mbps.

 

2 hours ago, aechmea said:

NBN have never sent us anything and have not replied to a request for information.

You're not a customer of NBN, ISPs are.   You need to approach this via an ISP.

 

I assume you have searched for your address in the coverage map?!  What does it say?   If it says you are "ready for service / fixed wireless" .... then just go ahead and order a service from an ISP.    Someone will come to rig up the antenna,  and if they (really!) can't get a signal, then you can go from there (NBN will let your ISP know what the options are).

 

If it says you're ready, then you just missed the mail out from NBN..... if it says something else, then that will help diagnose.

 

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1 hour ago, emesbee said:

 

Yes, its quite possible that there are valid reasons for the delay. It seems to me though that there is often a huge gap between what has been promised and what is being delivered, with inadequate explanations to people as to why that is. Expectations start to turn to cynicism when no explanations are offered at all. My street has coax cable running down it, and the NBN website initially showed my address as being scheduled for HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) in 2019. That plan was presumably changed due to technical reasons (possibly because they wouldn't be able to guarantee that those already on coax would continue to get the level of service they are used to). Meanwhile, some friends of mine who live just a few streets away were fortunate enough to get fibre to the home early on, before politics intervened. 

The most probable reason (but not the only one and there are exceptions) for the delay is your area my have been serviced with Optus HFC rather than Telstra HFC.  I know in the beginning of the roll-out in HFC serviced areas, NBN weren't very keen on acquiring the Optus HFC network.  There may have been technical reasons for this.  I do know that in some HFC areas NBN has used the Optus HFC network to reticulate services to customers (end users).

 

NBN HFC services use a different part of the frequency spectrum and a different modulation plan (DOCSIS 3.1) to existing services so your existing HFC broadband and cable Pay TV can co-exist on the same coaxial cable servicing your premises. (the simplified layperson explanation). 

 

As much as I'm a FTTP fan I see the current value in recycling the existing HFC networks as in most areas the existing (buried) infrastructure is still viable and under DOCSIS 3.1 could support speeds of up to 1Gbs/s.  :)

 

1 hour ago, emesbee said:

So, I while am cautiously hopeful that things will turn out well, I have tempered my expectations considerably. They have already delayed the delivery date and changed the delivery method, and I still have not received ANY direct correspondence about what they are planning to do and when they will do it, other than what I can see on their website.

That has been my criticism of the NBN all along.  It's a publicly owed network yet the information and its timing to Joe Public (the taxpayers who funded the construction of it) is IMHO less than satisfactory.  IMO if you are funding a public works project you have the right to know how and where your money is utilised.  I am a firm believer that truthful timely information is better than no communication at all.  As much as we hate the "NO" word sometimes, been informed is much better than the mushroom syndrome. 

 

Cheers,

Alan R.

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55 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

Thanks to everyone that responded, especially @davewantsmoore and @Monkeyboi. You have made an old man less stressed.

Humble Pie were a great band and I re emailed April at the NBN and apologized for my original aggressive email.

I will post on here when I get news.

Cheers.

Everyone is going to get one of the connection types, by sometime in 2020.   :) 

 

FTTC (assuming you have a good quality copper wiring) will be the second best long-term option (after fibre all the way into the house).    Assuming it is work in the copper network which needs to be done for you .... then take it as a "freebie" that the rest of your street might have to use their own money to pay for in decades to come  ;);) 

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5 hours ago, Monkeyboi said:

DOCSIS 3.1 could support speeds of up to 1Gbs/s.  :)

10Gb/s    👍

 

5 hours ago, Monkeyboi said:

IMO if you are funding a public works project you have the right to know how and where your money is utilised.

There is only a very low percentage of addresses which don't have an estimated service date.

 

Aside from the move to the "MTM", which caused large sections of the country to need to be redesigned/estimated, etc.  (which does take significant time to actually get an accurate estimate) .... then I'm not really sure what the fuss is all about.

 

The plan for "how the money will be spent" overall is all in the NBNCo corporate plan.

 

Quote

I am a firm believer that truthful timely information is better than no communication at all.

For the guys in this thread who have service dates of (for example) June 2020.....  what do you suggest NBN actually does different?

 

NBN couldn't have "told them any sooner"  (I can guarantee that the date has been published where it's advertised it would be published since the day it was known) ...... and NBN can't give then "more truthful" information - unless we think that what is published right now is somehow "untrue".

 

So?!....  How could they be more timely and more truthful with their information?

Edited by davewantsmoore

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I have no trust in the connection dates stated on the NBN website, it has already been pushed back in my area. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed back again as the 2020 'date' (actually 6 month period) gets closer.

 

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1 hour ago, emesbee said:

It seems to me though that there is often a huge gap between what has been promised and what is being delivered, with inadequate explanations to people as to why that is.

Do you mean with the NBN?

 

I think this couldn't be further from the truth.    Even knows by now the type of technology they're planned to be connected with (big delays and complexity due to the "shakeup" the Liberal government gave the project) ..... and you get connected by that technology  (ie. you get delivered what has been promised).

 

That is, aside from some fixed-wireless and satellite users who are in congested areas and can't reliably reach the promised speeds.

 

1 hour ago, emesbee said:

Expectations start to turn to cynicism when no explanations are offered at all. My street has coax cable running down it, and the NBN website initially showed my address as being scheduled for HFC (Hybrid Fibre Coax) in 2019. That plan was presumably changed due to technical reasons (possibly because they wouldn't be able to guarantee that those already on coax would continue to get the level of service they are used to).

What happened, was the taxpayer purchased the Optus HFC network at the instruction of the new government.   It then turned out that the Optus network was not fit for purpose, and for all those people, a new plan had to be developed.

 

1 hour ago, emesbee said:

Meanwhile, some friends of mine who live just a few streets away were fortunate enough to get fibre to the home early on, before politics intervened. 

HFC will be capable of the same speeds over the coming decades from a technical perspective ...... Although the politics of how that's done could get very messy.

 

I think the major problem facing it right now, is you have all these people whining and moaning that it takes to long, they got delayed, or their hand didn't get held quite right..... and so the general public sentiment about NBN is either "I don't notice it" .... or "I think it's bad".

 

This makes people much more likely to take a "get rid of it, someone else can do it better" mentality to it..... and then anyone without FTTP (or even perhaps those with it) can expect to be stranded on slow(er) speeds, and paying more than is fair, for much longer than necessary over the coming decades.

 

1 hour ago, emesbee said:

I still have not received ANY direct correspondence about what they are planning to do and when they will do it, other than what I can see on their website.

This is all the correspondence that is planned.    Look up your house on their website, that's the info you get.

 

If you PM me with your address, I can do some (metaphoric) digging for you.

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