Subwoofer down to 20hz or as close as possible

[Guest niterida]

18 minutes ago, Pieface said:

 

I have the Aaron SW400. The response nose dives at 25Hz, where I suspect the port is tuned. I doubt the Sub240 is particularly stronger down to 20Hz.

 

I suspect the SVS subs would be the strongest to 20Hz out of the options you have listed.

 

EDIT not sure about the SGR sub on the 'tree. It is likely a cracker. I would contact SGR as they would likely know what they set that sub up to achieve. Low extension with high output isn't always the design goal. Maybe the customer wanted something that hit super hard at 40Hz or something for music...you just don't know.

SUB240 is nothing like the SW400 though.

 

Sure the SVS are the go, but I can get 2 Sub240 for half the price of one SVS.

 

I have contacted SGR - they don't have any info on that sub as they haven't made them for quite a while but he did say it will "probably" go to 20hz 

He also said the amp in it still sells on its own for over $1000  

Edited January 11, 2019 by niterida

[Pieface]

2 minutes ago, niterida said:

SUB240 is nothing like the SW400 though.

 

Sure the SVS are the go, but I can get 2 Sub240 for half the price of one SVS.

 

I have contacted SGR - they don't have any info on that sub as they haven't made them for quite a while

 

The sub240 has ~30% more radiating surface and ~30% less amp power. It's designed by the same bloke and the SW400 is the later model. It's more likely that they are relatively comparable in performance than the sub240 having markedly better low frequency performance I would think.

 

The SW400 is also stated by Aaron as a 20Hz subwoofer. It is possibly a 20Hz subwoofer if you play it in a shoebox.

 

I like my sub plenty, don't get me wrong but if you are asking for a sub that plays 20Hz I am suggesting the Aaron sub240s will not achieve that.

 

Bugger on the SGR. ~$750ono is a fair punt and you might struggle to recoup that kind of money on the 'tree where SGR is not a "known" brand if it's not your cup of tea. Looks like it is probably a hike for you to just go and check it out?

[betty boop]

12 minutes ago, niterida said:

SUB240 is nothing like the SW400 though.

 

Sure the SVS are the go, but I can get 2 Sub240 for half the price of one SVS.

 

I have contacted SGR - they don't have any info on that sub as they haven't made them for quite a while but he did say it will "probably" go to 20hz 

He also said the amp in it still sells on its own for over $1000  

The Aaron’s were very popular good honest engineering. 

 

The thing is you can get more of same

 

but more and more ok subs won’t make for one great sub. 

[Guest niterida]

5 minutes ago, Pieface said:

 

The sub240 has ~30% more radiating surface and ~30% less amp power. It's designed by the same bloke and the SW400 is the later model. It's more likely that they are relatively comparable in performance than the sub240 having markedly better low frequency performance I would think.

 

The SW400 is also stated by Aaron as a 20Hz subwoofer. It is possibly a 20Hz subwoofer if you play it in a shoebox.

 

I like my sub plenty, don't get me wrong but if you are asking for a sub that plays 20Hz I am suggesting the Aaron sub240s will not achieve that.

 

Fair enough - I was just going by specs and extrapolating (Guessing really) and hoping it would be a good 'un. Maybe not  

 

8 minutes ago, Pieface said:

Bugger on the SGR. ~$750ono is a fair punt and you might struggle to recoup that kind of money on the 'tree where SGR is not a "known" brand if it's not your cup of tea. Looks like it is probably a hike for you to just go and check it out?

I am heading his way in a couple of weeks and have sent him a (lowball) offer but he hasn't responded yet. Its probably not suitable for me and my layout though unless I can find another identical one or if I could lay it on its side.......

[jamiebosco]

6 minutes ago, niterida said:

SUB240 is nothing like the SW400 though.

 

Sure the SVS are the go, but I can get 2 Sub240 for half the price of one SVS.

 

I have contacted SGR - they don't have any info on that sub as they haven't made them for quite a while

The problem is you still may not get any meaningful output at 20hz and under with the Aaron subs - which I the reason for upgrading yeah?

The good thing about SVS is that they provide honest and accurate in-house measurements and most have third party reviews with measurements, so at least you'll know what you are getting.

 

 

Here's my bass response with  4x PB-2000s

 

 

[Guest jakeyb77]

2 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

The problem is you still may not get any meaningful output at 20hz and under with the Aaron subs - which I the reason for upgrading yeah?

The good thing about SVS is that they provide honest and accurate in-house measurements and most have third party reviews with measurements, so at least you'll know what you are getting.

 

 

Here's my bass response with  4x PB-2000s

 

 

Holy crap!! One PB-2000 gives me thrills I can only imagine what four does!! 

[Guest niterida]

7 minutes ago, betty boop said:

The Aaron’s were very popular good honest engineering. 

 

The thing is you can get more of same

 

but more and more ok subs won’t make for one great sub. 

From what I have read that's not quite true - more subs can give lower and better response - depending on the room, layout and EQ etc ??

True that it still may not be as good as one great sub but for half the price if it gets close it may be worth it.

 

Remember my intent was to get as CLOSE to 20hz for as LITTLE as possible

[jamiebosco]

1 minute ago, jakeyb77 said:

Holy crap!! One PB-2000 gives me thrills I can only imagine what four does!! 

Yes, had insane output and smooth response down to the teens.

 

The PB-1000 is no slouch though, duals would keep all but the biggest idiots (me) in bass heaven!

[Pieface]

2 minutes ago, niterida said:

From what I have read that's not quite true - more subs can give lower and better response - depending on the room, layout and EQ etc ??

True that it still may not be as good as one great sub but for half the price if it gets close it may be worth it.

 

Remember my intent was to get as CLOSE to 20hz for as LITTLE as possible

 

More subs can give you more headroom.  The roll off on this type of sub is too steep to try and EQ more response below port tune. It is likely the roll off is so steep to protect the driver from exceeding Xmech below port tune. Chasing output there would be risky IMO.

 

It is one thing to chase a few more dB from a sub grouping that has been engineered to roll off more gradually like a sealed sub or the PB2000 pictured above by getting multiples and taking advantage of more head room...but 2 or 3 or 100 x zero output is still zero output!

 

For what it is worth a solid output at 25Hz is still very noticeable compared to a system that gives up at 30Hz. It's just that 20Hz is even more so again. 25Hz is a lot closer than 30Hz and you may well feel that is a valuable upgrade particularly if you can use multiple 25Hz subs in your budget and gain the benefit of smoothing your bass response as well (some assembly required) 

 

It's all about compromise in this game unless you hit that powerball 

 

 

 

[Guest niterida]

7 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

The problem is you still may not get any meaningful output at 20hz and under with the Aaron subs - which I the reason for upgrading yeah?

The good thing about SVS is that they provide honest and accurate in-house measurements and most have third party reviews with measurements, so at least you'll know what you are getting.

 

 

You're just showing off

 

From my reading, reviews of reasonably well-known sub manufacturers seem to show specs to be spot-on or under quoted when tested - I was hoping the same was going to be true of the Aarons.

 

[jamiebosco]

4 minutes ago, niterida said:

From what I have read that's not quite true - more subs can give lower and better response - depending on the room, layout and EQ etc ??

 

 

Remember my intent was to get as CLOSE to 20hz for as LITTLE as possible

From what I've seen (online and IRL), with ported subs you don't really get any extra extension  by adding additional units, definitely has the potential for much smoother response though. You could add 12 more of your current subs and still wouldn't  have useful output at 20hz,it's too far under port tune

 

 

 

For under $1000AU you could probably build a pair of these https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2226642-v-b-s-s-diy-subwoofer-design-thread.html

 

which will easily  outperform anything close to that $$

 

Everything is listed in the above thread, including the EQ needed

 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Behringer-INUKE-NU1000DSP-PA-Amplifier-1000W-DJ-City-Australia/163321351323?hash=item2606b60c9b:g:4CIAAOSwHhRbyBQ-:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dayton-Audio-PA460-8-18-Pro-Woofer/221532309110?hash=item33945ac676:g:BH4AAOSwxCxT-4CW:rk:1:pf:0

[hopefullguy]

hmm ok i will be the bad guy... .. BUDGET to get what op wants will not happen. get rid of the 4 "average" subs and start saving for the pb2000 or equivalent other brand (these pb2000 pop up for around $800 2nd hand) or get a loan and buy one of the  pb/sb13 ultras that have come up in the last few weeks and be done with it.

 

take your time, save up and i think once done you wont want for more.. well maybe a 2nd 20hz sub haha

[Guest niterida]

12 minutes ago, Pieface said:

 

More subs can give you more headroom.  The roll off on this type of sub is too steep to try and EQ more response below port tune. It is likely the roll off is so steep to protect the driver from exceeding Xmech below port tune. Chasing output there would be risky IMO.

 

It is one thing to chase a few more dB from a sub grouping that has been engineered to roll off more gradually like a sealed sub or the PB2000 pictured above by getting multiples and taking advantage of more head room...but 2 or 3 or 100 x zero output is still zero output!

 

For what it is worth a solid output at 25Hz is still very noticeable compared to a system that gives up at 30Hz. It's just that 20Hz is even more so again. 25Hz is a lot closer than 30Hz and you may well feel that is a valuable upgrade particularly if you can use multiple 25Hz subs in your budget and gain the benefit of smoothing your bass response as well (some assembly required) 

 

It's all about compromise in this game unless you hit that powerball 

 

 

 

Yeah I want to go lower than 25hz................

Compromise is indeed the name of the game !!

[Guest niterida]

24 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

For under $1000AU you could probably build a pair of these https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2226642-v-b-s-s-diy-subwoofer-design-thread.html

 

which will easily  outperform anything close to that $$

That's awesome - will consider that option for sure - thanks

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by niterida

[jamiebosco]

43 minutes ago, niterida said:

You're just showing off

 

From my reading, reviews of reasonably well-known sub manufacturers seem to show specs to be spot-on or under quoted when tested - I was hoping the same was going to be true of the Aarons.

 

haha...maybe a little

 

 

 

 

 

I think in general most manufacturers are fairly honest, but when they write "20hz response" - that really means nothing - if it's -3dB at 20hz that's fine, but it could be 10dB or 20dB+

 

Look at Def Tech, they consistently claim extremely low extension from their rather small subs, but when tested they usually fall short

 

Def Tech claim the SC-4000 has 16hz extension

here's some measurements from S&V  

 

looks like it's like 30dB down at 20hz

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by jamiebosco

[Guest niterida]

30 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

hmm ok i will be the bad guy... .. BUDGET to get what op wants will not happen. get rid of the 4 "average" subs and start saving for the pb2000 or equivalent other brand (these pb2000 pop up for around $800 2nd hand) or get a loan and buy one of the  pb/sb13 ultras that have come up in the last few weeks and be done with it.

 

take your time, save up and i think once done you wont want for more.. well maybe a 2nd 20hz sub haha

Once again I will say my goal is "to get as close as POSSIBLE to 20hz in my budget"

So what I want will happen, it just might be at 25hz  

I don't want to spend any more because I have just built my home and it still needs money spent to finish it off.

Then I will be able to build another house (on the other half of my block) and that will have a standalone theatre with the best of everything courtesy of an even more massive mortgage than I have already eeek!!

[Guest niterida]

1 minute ago, jamiebosco said:

haha...maybe a little

 

Who wouldn't with a setup like that  

 

1 minute ago, jamiebosco said:

I think in general most manufacturers are fairly honest, but when they write "20hz response" - that really means nothing - if it's -3dB at 20hz that's fine, but it could be 10dB or 20dB+

I am aware of that and most of the ones I saw were at -3db. It just struck me that most of the specs were pretty close to real life which is unusual when marketing is involved.

[Tony ray]

If your handy with tools DIY is the way to go. Ive made one Sub and would never buy a name brand again.

[Sub Sonic]

Would you be up for DIY? You could make your own sealed enclosure with some decent drivers and EQ to your chosen lower limit via MiniDSP.

 

Cheers,

 

SS

 

Hmm just realised I’d posted but missed out on reading 6 pages of the thread...

 

Rythmik servo subwoofers are superb, and can be DIY’d. They are definitely capable of going subsonic  Not sure if it will fit in your budget though.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Sub Sonic

[Guest niterida]

10 hours ago, jamiebosco said:

 

Personally I'd sell them and put  the money towards either the SGR or grab a single PB-1000 now while on special, and save up for a second one down the track

 

A couple of people have suggested that and I hadn't actually thought about it but it might be an option.

Anybody wanna buy 4 Pioneer S-W200 subs

 

[joz]

9 hours ago, Tony ray said:

Agree with Jamie,, get the SGR

I thought the SGR subs were all sealed?

 

IIRC, that ported sub has an Exudus 15” driver. 

The actual SGR units are sealed but have  10 & 12” units.

[jamiebosco]

12 minutes ago, joz said:

IIRC, that ported sub has an Exudus 15” driver. 

The actual SGR units are sealed but have  10 & 12” units.

I think it has the Adire Audio Tempest X

[joz]

7 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

I think it has the Adire Audio Tempest X

I think your right.

[Guest niterida]

3 hours ago, jamiebosco said:

For under $1000AU you could probably build a pair of these https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2226642-v-b-s-s-diy-subwoofer-design-thread.html

 

which will easily  outperform anything close to that $$

 

Everything is listed in the above thread, including the EQ needed

 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Behringer-INUKE-NU1000DSP-PA-Amplifier-1000W-DJ-City-Australia/163321351323?hash=item2606b60c9b:g:4CIAAOSwHhRbyBQ-:rk:1:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dayton-Audio-PA460-8-18-Pro-Woofer/221532309110?hash=item33945ac676:g:BH4AAOSwxCxT-4CW:rk:1:pf:0

Or I could buy an NU3000DSP and 1 Dayton driver for $690 (plus MDF and glue). Then with the NU3000 I can add 3 more Dayton enclosures as time and money come in.

That would be 4 subs for $1500 (ish)  

[Guest niterida]

39 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

I think it has the Adire Audio Tempest X

Is that good ??