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Can someone please inform me on what shop is CAV?

I am looking at the Mscaler and would like to hear it in my system before committing...I have a Dave

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Toyboyo said:

Can someone please inform me on what shop is CAV?

I am looking at the Mscaler and would like to hear it in my system before committing...I have a Dave

 

 

CAV= Carlton Audio Visual in Melbourne.

 

 I’m sure you can find one to demo in Sydney

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6 minutes ago, sakabatou said:

CAV= Carlton Audio Visual in Melbourne.

 

 I’m sure you can find one to demo in Sydney

@Toyboyo If you are in Sydney, Lifestyle store in North Parramatta stocks them.

Edited by Whites
Minor.

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Anyone want to say how much Mscalers are actually selling for new in the shops - not the rrp - or is that is a hush top secret piece of information that each person keeps to their own - like a secret mantra ?

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Call a shop and ask. 

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On 17/04/2019 at 11:09 AM, Snoopy8 said:

I am a fan of Gieseler DACs which are designed and made in the Gold Coast.

My personal opinion is that the Gieseler Fein II will beat both of the DACs that you are considering...

Different prices Snoopy! Chord 2 Qute is about $850, Fein II is $2k+ 😝

 

Good advice to listen to them. You might find you hear a big difference, you might find you hear no difference. 

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Apologies if it’s already been answered here but what is the size of the DC power plug on the M Scaler? 2.1mm or 2.5mm?

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The Hugo TT2 is 5.5mm dia with a 2.5mm centre pin so I would think the M Scaler would be the same.

Edited by Gieseler Audio

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Just confirming the the DC plug size is definitely  5.5mm barrel diameter with a 2.5mm diameter centre pin.

I now have in my possession the M Scaler as well as the Hugo TT2 so I am going to try both with with my low noise Kraftwerk PSU 

& see if there is any noticeable sound difference.

Stay tuned!

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On 03/05/2019 at 8:36 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

Just confirming the the DC plug size is definitely  5.5mm barrel diameter with a 2.5mm diameter centre pin.

I now have in my possession the M Scaler as well as the Hugo TT2 so I am going to try both with with my low noise Kraftwerk PSU 

& see if there is any noticeable sound difference.

Stay tuned!

Be careful. Chord specifically says not to use after market PSUs and doing so could damage the warranty

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I had the pleasure of Sime’s company (great bloke) and the company of the Quetest/mscaler last night.

 

Wow. This is hands down the best presentation of digital I have EVER heard... and it only had my bluesound to work with supplying the 1s and 0s.

 

The best.

 

I can only imagine (or maybe I can’t) what something like an Esoteric feeding it a MoFi SACD would sound like.

 

I still preferred vinyl... but still just wow.

 

TY Sime... don’t ever part with it (and that seems unlikely).

 

I can also attest that the care taken in looking after his gear is second to none... anything you’re buying from him, I imagine, would be in as new condition.

Edited by furtherpale

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7 minutes ago, furtherpale said:

I had the pleasure of Sime’s company (great bloke) and the company of the Quetest/mscaler last night.

 

Wow. This is hands down the best presentation of digital I have EVER heard... and it only had my bluesound to work with supplying the 1s and 0s.

 

The best.

 

I can only imagine (or maybe I can’t) what something like an Esoteric feeding it a MoFi SACD would sound like.

 

I still preferred vinyl... but still just wow.

 

TY Sime... don’t ever part with it (and that seems unlikely).

 

I can also attest that the care taken in looking after his gear is second to none... anything you’re buying from him, I imagine, would be in as new condition.

Thanks mate, it was a good night indeed. Your system sounded great for both digital and especially vinyl. 

My place next round 👍

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During this past week after working recently on passive loudspeakers I finally managed to connect my M-scaler to my DEQX-active Tikandi loudspeakers.  I fed the M-scaler's output into one of the DEQX HDP-4 digital inputs after upscaling 44 kHz CDs 4x to 176 kHz (the maximum the DEQX will accept).

 

The results were quite extraordinary with the clarity/resolution, speed (PRaT) and soundstage being outstanding. I guess this is not unexpected given the M-scaler reduces timing errors at the digital front-end; while the DEQX improves timing/group delay at the speaker backend (as well as correcting for speaker and room frequency non-linearities plus having the Ncore amps connected directly to the speaker drivers).

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On 01/06/2019 at 7:13 AM, legend said:

I fed the M-scaler's output into one of the DEQX HDP-4 digital inputs after upscaling 44 kHz CDs 4x to 176 kHz (the maximum the DEQX will accept).

So your M-Scaler is up-sampling RBCD?

 

Or you're up-sampling RBCD to PCM176kHz and then feeding PCM176 to your M-Scaler ?

 

M-Scaler outputting 176k is 0.25*M-Scaler (~250k taps). I believe your DEQX will re-sample that to 96kHz...

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Yes I am upsampling RBCD to 176 kHz in the M-Scaler and feeding it directly into a digital input on the DEQX.  I can find nothing to say the M-Scaleris not using 1M taps?

 

And yes I think DEQX downsamples it to 96 kHz for it DSP processing - but presumably downsampling causes less errors than upsampling?

 

Whatever the sound quality is quite spectacular - though of course this may also be partly due the rest of the system (active speakers and their superb drivers plus multiple power Ncore amps).

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19 minutes ago, legend said:

I can find nothing to say the M-Scaleris not using 1M taps?

PCM705/768 output = 1M

 

PCM353/384 output = Half M

 

PCM176/192 output = Quarter M (your case...)

 

From Rob Watts over on Head-Fi:

 

 

F82B9A0F-648E-4DBB-8C2E-C190BDF8C357.jpeg.97ca74296c5937755f0397a3d32a0ff1.jpeg

Edited by Music2496

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39 minutes ago, legend said:

And yes I think DEQX downsamples it to 96 kHz for it DSP processing - but presumably downsampling causes less errors than upsampling?

It resamples to 96kHz but hard to guess exactly what they are doing... DEQX may have a very different philosophy to Rob when it comes to ideal transient response...

 

If they had the same DSP philosophy as Rob, 96kHz = 1/8th M-Scaler

 

Edited by Music2496

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That’s the brilliant thing about it. I’m most likely feeding the m Scaler into the analog on my pre which may be re-digitizing it, but it’s still makes a marked improvement overall. My system without it, no matter the dac can sound brittle in comparison. 

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3 hours ago, Music2496 said:

It resamples to 96kHz but hard to guess exactly what they are doing... DEQX may have a very different philosophy to Rob when it comes to ideal transient response...

 

If they had the same DSP philosophy as Rob, 96kHz = 1/8th M-Scaler

 

Whatever I thought the M-Scaler upsampling to 88k was significantly better than the RBCD 44k fed  directly into the DEQX - while the  176k upsampling was slightly better again.

 

I have yet to try feeding the 705k upsample to my Qutest and then the analog output to an analog input of the DEQX where I think it is redigitalised at 192k.  In the past (pre-MScaler) I have always found that this softens the sound slightly - which can be fine for poor recordings but loses some dynamics on good recordings.  The M-Scaler may change the net benefits.  Unfortunately where the DEQX is located in my system one needs to be Houdini for physical changes to its input!

Edited by legend
clarifiucation

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2 hours ago, Music2496 said:

PCM705/768 output = 1M

 

PCM353/384 output = Half M

 

PCM176/192 output = Quarter M (your case...)

 

From Rob Watts over on Head-Fi:

 

 

F82B9A0F-648E-4DBB-8C2E-C190BDF8C357.jpeg.97ca74296c5937755f0397a3d32a0ff1.jpeg

Thanks!  Do you know the reason for this?  When @Ittaku did his off-line upsampling for me the number of taps seemed independent of his upsample rate that varied from 176 to 705k.

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On 02/06/2019 at 2:33 PM, legend said:

Whatever I thought the M-Scaler upsampling to 88k was significantly better than the RBCD 44k fed  directly into the DEQX - while the  176k upsampling was slightly better again.

 

I have yet to try feeding the 705k upsample to my Qutest and then the analog output to an analog input of the DEQX where I think it is redigitalised at 192k.  In the past (pre-MScaler) I have always found that this softens the sound slightly - which can be fine for poor recordings but loses some dynamics on good recordings.  The M-Scaler may change the net benefits.  Unfortunately where the DEQX is located in my system one needs to be Houdini for physical changes to its input!

Hi Rob

I am running a Dave and the mscaler via analog in on my deqx hdp5 with high quality lenehan analog rca cables. It sounds absolutely spectacular to the point where I'm not even bothering trying to run it via digital out from the deqx as it suits my set up needs more and if I ever get the tikandi actives in the future, I am used to the sound this way. It would be worth for you trying again with the qutest/ mscaler running it via analog in to see the difference and to see how it is with your active tikandis.

 

I realise the Dave may be helping this here but I don't find the sound soft, it's exactly where I like it to be. Its transparent and detailed but very musical. The mscaler just makes me more involved with the music. Its got a vinyl feel, but is different. I feel its a combination of analog and digital with the best of both worlds.

 

Sounds odd but it makes absolutely everything I throw at it sound great, regardless of recording quality. Its revealing but it never exposes the poor quality recordings and it almost enhances them. Bad quality recordings sound great and "audiophile" quality recordings sounds absolutely amazing. Everything I find, sounds better with this combo.

 

I am at the point where I am running out of itches to scratch in my system with this set up and couldn't be happier with the sound.

 

I took a punt on the mscaler after not being impressed with it at all at the dealers, and I am very glad I did. I find now I cant live without it when I choose to down sample the output sample rate. Its not something to A/B immediately though, as it does grow on you. Initially I wasn't impressed with the A/B differences at the dealers but now that is a different story and I don't think its best qualities shine through with a direct A/B. For those who have heard this at the dealers and weren't impressed, I would say to try it out at home. If you have a chord dac, its a no brainer.

 

Another tip I got from someone on stereonet. The BNC cables make a huge difference and I was recommended to go with 

 
CANARE LV-61S. Whoever recommended that, thank you! Its a cheap upgrade but totally transforms the mscaler from the stock bnc cables. Highly recommended if anyone isn't running custom bncs.
 
My speakers are probably the weak link in the chain now, so  I still need to come to yours with my Dave to try this out with your tikandis on the deqx and mscaler. I feel this would be another monumental jump but I am very happy with what I am hearing currently.  In the last few years I have been incrementally adding small tweaks and new components slowly over time. I feel the mscaler is a key piece that has made all other improvements I have made over time synergise all together. Please excuse the long winded post, just wanted to give some different insight on the Mscaler into this thread.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, sandrews888 said:

 

Another tip I got from someone on stereonet. The BNC cables make a huge difference and I was recommended to go with 

 
CANARE LV-61S. Whoever recommended that, thank you!

 

 

You're welcome!

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@rossb you are a legend. Great call on those cables. They made a massive difference over the stock ones. Cheers 

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On 02/06/2019 at 2:44 PM, legend said:

Thanks!  Do you know the reason for this?  When @Ittaku did his off-line upsampling for me the number of taps seemed independent of his upsample rate that varied from 176 to 705k.

You can make any number of taps you like for any type of upsampling, but there is a ceiling to the quality advantage until you go up in sample rate. 1 billion taps at 88k doesn't sound as good as 200k samples at 176k. That said, the reason the mscaler changes the amount of taps has more to do with how the internal FPGA hardware works where it would need a very different hardware design to maintain the taps the same and vary only the sample rate.

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5 hours ago, sandrews888 said:

Hi Rob

I am running a Dave and the mscaler via analog in on my deqx hdp5 with high quality lenehan analog rca cables. It sounds absolutely spectacular to the point where I'm not even bothering trying to run it via digital out from the deqx as it suits my set up needs more and if I ever get the tikandi actives in the future, I am used to the sound this way. It would be worth for you trying again with the qutest/ mscaler running it via analog in to see the difference and to see how it is with your active tikandis.

 

I realise the Dave may be helping this here but I don't find the sound soft, it's exactly where I like it to be. Its transparent and detailed but very musical. The mscaler just makes me more involved with the music. Its got a vinyl feel, but is different. I feel its a combination of analog and digital with the best of both worlds.

 

Sounds odd but it makes absolutely everything I throw at it sound great, regardless of recording quality. Its revealing but it never exposes the poor quality recordings and it almost enhances them. Bad quality recordings sound great and "audiophile" quality recordings sounds absolutely amazing. Everything I find, sounds better with this combo.

 

I am at the point where I am running out of itches to scratch in my system with this set up and couldn't be happier with the sound.

 

I took a punt on the mscaler after not being impressed with it at all at the dealers, and I am very glad I did. I find now I cant live without it when I choose to down sample the output sample rate. Its not something to A/B immediately though, as it does grow on you. Initially I wasn't impressed with the A/B differences at the dealers but now that is a different story and I don't think its best qualities shine through with a direct A/B. For those who have heard this at the dealers and weren't impressed, I would say to try it out at home. If you have a chord dac, its a no brainer.

 

Another tip I got from someone on stereonet. The BNC cables make a huge difference and I was recommended to go with 

 
CANARE LV-61S. Whoever recommended that, thank you! Its a cheap upgrade but totally transforms the mscaler from the stock bnc cables. Highly recommended if anyone isn't running custom bncs.
 
My speakers are probably the weak link in the chain now, so  I still need to come to yours with my Dave to try this out with your tikandis on the deqx and mscaler. I feel this would be another monumental jump but I am very happy with what I am hearing currently.  In the last few years I have been incrementally adding small tweaks and new components slowly over time. I feel the mscaler is a key piece that has made all other improvements I have made over time synergise all together. Please excuse the long winded post, just wanted to give some different insight on the Mscaler into this thread.

 

 

Nails the experience exactly, and I’m glad you got one and are pleased to bits. Welcome to the club. 

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