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Chord Electronics Owners & Discussion Thread

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2 minutes ago, Music2496 said:

Ha. And I also disagree but for different reasons.

 

With have a three way tie! 😁

 

I think it's better to just share observations without trying to make a general claim... even though, the reality is everything we all write really is really only a subjective opinion...

 

None of us (in this thread anyway) have any objective data to make any claim about what is the best way to go about things in this fun hobby we all love...

Absolutely, and that's all I can claim based on my observations. Reviews are no different. I think for example the MSB Premier DAC sounds light years better than the Chord Dave, and I can't imagine the Dave with Mscaler sounding as good, yet that combination costs as much as the Premier.

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Ha. And I also disagree but for different reasons.
 
With have a three way tie! [emoji16]
 
I think it's better to just share observations without trying to make a general claim... even though, the reality is everything we all write really is really only a subjective opinion...
 
None of us (in this thread anyway) have any objective data to make any claim about what is the best way to go ...
 
 
Woo hoo love a tie lol

Agreed! Sharing opinions is what this forum is all about and what makes it great!

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9 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

I think for example the MSB Premier DAC sounds light years better than the Chord Dave,

Yup. And naturally everyone should read 'sounds light years better' as 'sounds different'... because better for you may be worse for me and better for me, may be worse for you.


'Different' is enough to at least warrant a demo, to hear both and decide on listening.

 

Not that any MSB DAC is even light years within my budget! Would still love to listen to one though.

 

I've been a long time fan, from afar.

 

I love the modular design concept. All based around state of the art performance of course.

Edited by Music2496

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1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

/me shrugs. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to your own too.

But it’s a correct opinion. 

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1 minute ago, Sime V2 said:

But it’s a correct opinion. 

Your response was unwittingly ambiguous enough that it could have referred to either of our opinions. Gotta love English.

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23 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Your response was unwittingly ambiguous enough that it could have referred to either of our opinions. Gotta love English.

No ambiguity at all... I think @Sime V2's profile pic gives it away... 

 

No need for English. A picture speaks... a million taps..

Edited by Music2496

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4 minutes ago, Music2496 said:

No ambiguity at all... I think @Sime V2's profile pic gives it away... 

 

No need for English. A picture speaks... a million taps..

I dunno, I doubt Sime thinks it's worth buying a $700 DAC with a $7500 scaler instead of an $8000 DAC, but perhaps the $2500 DAC with the scaler.

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1 minute ago, Ittaku said:

perhaps the $2500 DAC with the scaler.

Of course it's this. This is known.

 

Until he upgrades Qutest to TT2, right Sime? 

Edited by Music2496

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Here's hoping I can fix the value equation with a $2000 scaler...

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Yup. And naturally everyone should read 'sounds light years better' as 'sounds different'... because better for you may be worse for me and better for me, may be worse for you.

'Different' is enough to at least warrant a demo, to hear both and decide on listening.
 
Not that any MSB DAC is even light years within my budget! Would still love to listen to one though.
 
I've been a long time fan, from afar.
 
I love the modular design concept. All based around state of the art performance of course.
I would love to one day lol, own a DCS transport and Dac oh and add a clock just for fun or an Esoteric full system

Maybe one day all the balls (lottery) will align and then the dreams will come true

Until then I can just drool over the photos on line and hate the people that own them, joking!

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Just now, Deano_malaysia said:

I would love to one day lol, own a DCS transport and Dac oh and add a clock just for fun

Don't forget the up-sampler! dCS were the first with an external up-sampler ~1999...  I think...

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My comment was in regard to the opinion that you have to live with an M-Scaler to fully appreciate one. 

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I have so far managed to spent about 3 hours listening to my 'new' used computer with HQplayer set on sinc-M with its 1M taps into my Qutest DAC.


The sinc-M seems to give similar improved resolution of detail/clarity and excellent stereo imaging  as I remember the M-Scaler (admittedly more than a month ago).  This makes listening to non-classical music (rock etc) very exiting and enjoyable - as mentioned in a previous post, with Heart's 'Alone' from their 'Live from Seattle' album one can not only hear the individual audience reaction, rather than 'white noise', but also locate them in space very precisely.


However with classical music, although these two attributes (clarity and imaging) are retained, the music still has some glassy sheen/glare and lacks some of the ease/body that I remember from the M-Scaler. There may be a number of reasons for this:
1. the speakers are different - I sold the 3-way Kantus I had been using last week and had only 2-way Kurres left here though have replaced their normal tweeters by Be ones that are amongst the best (and most expensive!) available.
2.  my Windows computer seems to limit the USB output to 352k (even though the Qutest will accept 704k through its USB input) whereas the 'magic' of the M-Scaler seemed to occur when Simon switched to 704k through the dual BNC inputs (nobody on Head Hi-Fi's Official M-Scaler forum has properly answered my query about this).
3. (a) the M-Scaler uses a proprietary WTA filter during/after upsampling that may limit the effects of truncation even after 1M taps - or (b) even 'artificially' give it more ease/body as does adding reverberation.

 

@Ittaku provides some evidence for 3(a) by going to even higher number of taps where presumably the effects of truncation are even less.  Indeed when I played the Telarc-Kamen piece that he kindly upsampled to 352k by this method using no upsampling/filter in HQplayer it indeed had more body/less glare than when the CD was played with sinc-M upsampling (another nice thing about my new-used computer it has an optical drive that HQplayer easily recognises).

 

The investigation continues!

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36 minutes ago, legend said:

2.  my Windows computer seems to limit the USB output to 352k (even though the Qutest will accept 704k through its USB input)

I asked you the other day (but didn't get a reply), what incoming sample rate does your Qutest indicate?

 

As previously mentioned:

 

The WASAPI driver in 'Exclusive Mode' (and ASIO of course) by-passes your Windows sound settings.


So as I mentioned the other day, if HQP is outputting PCM705kHz and Qutest indicates incoming PCM705kHz, then if you are using WASAP in Exclusive Mode (or ASIO), then it is PCM705kHz... and you can ignore the Windows sound settings, as previously mentioned...

 

From the manual:

 

 

1813559896_ScreenShot2019-03-10at12_43_40pm.png.c3ac12ec322c2f72e9e5eefc4604a367.png

Edited by Music2496

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13 minutes ago, legend said:

There may be a number of reasons for this:
1. the speakers are different

This has the potential to really swamp everything else... Not to say the other stuff won't have an effect.

Edited by Music2496

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1 hour ago, Music2496 said:

This has the potential to really swamp everything else... Not to say the other stuff won't have an effect.

I am a speaker designer who is fairly aware of the characteristics of these speakers 🤨

Kurre10Be-doped  sameXover composite.png

Edited by legend

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1 hour ago, Music2496 said:

I asked you the other day (but didn't get a reply), what incoming sample rate does your Qutest indicate?

 

As previously mentioned:

 

The WASAPI driver in 'Exclusive Mode' (and ASIO of course) by-passes your Windows sound settings.


So as I mentioned the other day, if HQP is outputting PCM705kHz and Qutest indicates incoming PCM705kHz, then if you are using WASAP in Exclusive Mode (or ASIO), then it is PCM705kHz... and you can ignore the Windows sound settings, as previously mentioned...

 

From the manual:

 

 

1813559896_ScreenShot2019-03-10at12_43_40pm.png.c3ac12ec322c2f72e9e5eefc4604a367.png

Sorry I forgot to reply to your question!  There a two lights inside the Qutest window - one is a very bright 'white' and the other a smaller 'red'.  If the former it should be DSD (which it is not unless HQplayer is doing something it is not supposed to as I have set it for PCM output); or if the latter it is 44.1 or 352.8 (as I have said before I find this way of showing sample rates confusing, unlike the LED screen on the Project S2).

 

And yes I am using WASAPI in 'exclusive mode'.

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3 minutes ago, legend said:

Sorry I forgot to reply to your question!  There a two lights inside the Qutest window - one is a very bright 'white' and the other a smaller 'red'.  If the former it should be DSD (which it is not unless HQplayer is doing something it is not supposed to as I have set it for PCM output); or if the latter it is 44.1 or 352.8 (as I have said before I find this way of showing sample rates confusing, unlike the LED screen on the Project S2).

 

And yes I am using WASAPI in 'exclusive mode'.

I always thought that someone should make a product that sits in between the PC/streamer and DAC that has a LCD screen and shows sampling rates or maybe there is something.

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13 minutes ago, legend said:

or if the latter it is 44.1 or 352.8

To make things worse, for a colour blind person like me the colour for 353 and 705 (as shown in the manual) isn't all that different.

 

I've tried to help as much as possible, but working out the colours (and therefore sample rate) is something I can't help with.

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45 minutes ago, legend said:

I am a speaker designer who is fairly aware of the characteristics of these speakers 🤨

In trying to work out differences between M-Scaler (on one set of speakers) and HQPlayer (on a different set of speakers), do the new speakers measure identically (in room response specifically...) as the previous speakers which you tested M-Scaler on?

Edited by Music2496

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20 minutes ago, Music2496 said:

In trying to work out differences between M-Scaler (on one set of speakers) and HQPlayer (on a different set of speakers), do the new speakers measure identically (in room response specifically...) as the previous speakers which you tested M-Scaler on?

Yes reasonably closely and I have enough experience to compensate for their difference (may not now be a computer expert but am a speaker one)!  However the main problem is more likely aural memory because it is well over a month since Simon brought down his M-Scaler.  Though last week I went to an SSO concert in the Opera House partly to 'recalibrate my ears' to the real thing - see https://www.facebook.com/legendspeakers/

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11 minutes ago, legend said:

However the main problem is more likely aural memory because it is well over a month since Simon brought down his M-Scaler.

I agree with this part. And have no problem with it of course.

 

We all have to rely on memory a lot of the time because none of us have any way to measure absolutely everything, for objective data.

 

So this shouldn't stop any of us sharing our subjective impressions, like you're doing.

 

Looking forward to your further impressions.

 

Edited by Music2496

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Yes reasonably closely and I have enough experience to compensate for their difference (may not now be a computer expert but am a speaker one)!  However the main problem is more likely aural memory because it is well over a month since Simon brought down his M-Scaler.  Though last week I went to an SSO concert in the Opera House partly to 'recalibrate my ears' to the real thing - see https://www.facebook.com/legendspeakers/
Yep same here always good to recalibrate your ears every now and then,

We once went to hear a symphony version of watership down, walked out with these lol3d6636cd8cd82e0fd272c5d6e6c39307.jpg

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But they are not 'golden ears' beloved of audiophiles - you should get your money back!

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