What to do with old CDs?

[zydeco]

Yes, it's a bit cliched, but we're doing a New Year clean-out and I'm just down from the shed looking at 5 large tubs of CD that never get used following these having been ripped to a NAS. I thought that I was keeping these as a back-up "just in case" but the move to on-line streaming has put that in question. I don't have the patience to photo all the covers then sell, putting them in the bin seems like a massive waste and options for donations seem limited here in Perth. What are y'all doing with old CD that have been ripped? 

[Jventer]

Agree that it is a lot of effort to take photos of each. I am going to make a list on Google Docs and then sell as many as I can.

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Jventer

[sir sanders zingmore]

Keep them. 

There will be a “CD revival” one day

[hugo_wilco]

Use them as Shrikens for the Zombie Apocalypse?

[Eggmeister]

 

 

[Tim D]

Advertise them for free, pickup on this site and ask that a donation be made to SNA?

 

I am sure someone wants them and CDs still sound ok.

[t_mike]

Just like bulk records, line them up and photo the spines. This will show what they are, people can make up their minds up as to what they like. Sell them in bundles if it's easier. 

[PleasantSounds]

Is it even legal in Australia to keep the ripped versions if you dispose of the purchased originals?

 

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Yes, it's a bit cliched, but we're doing a New Year clean-out and I'm just down from the shed looking at 5 large tubs of CD that never get used following these having been ripped to a NAS. I thought that I was keeping these as a back-up "just in case" but the move to on-line streaming has put that in question. I don't have the patience to photo all the covers then sell, putting them in the bin seems like a massive waste and options for donations seem limited here in Perth. What are y'all doing with old CD that have been ripped? 

You need to keep them if you intend to keep them on your NAS.

[davewantsmoore]

21 minutes ago, PleasantSounds said:

Is it even legal in Australia to keep the ripped versions if you dispose of the purchased originals?

No

[Guest]

I use them as decoration for Unused shelves. 

 

[ThirdDrawerDown]

Usual story: more work gets you more reward. Options are:

 

1. Give to Op Shop. No reward except helping to educate buyers that an anonymous donor had excellent musical taste. The charity gains, after putting the labour into pricing everything. Shoplifters gain, at least here in Melbourne, where about 1 in 20 charity CDs is empty of the disc.

 

2. Sell to Cash Converters. They sell at $1 each, so will buy at about 25c each. Wait as they individually enter each CD onto their database before they pay you.

 

3. Sell to a record shop. They will buy at 40% or less of what they hope to get, but they have a better idea of value than Cash Converters, who take an Australia Post approach to knowing what's going on (in other words, they have no or very little idea what they are doing in this market).

 

4. Sell on consignment arrangement. You'll get up to say say 20% because 'selling on behalf of' is not fun. (I speak from LP and laserdisc experience, doing what turns out to be a big favour for friends) 

 

5. Sell in bulk lot on gumtree. Likely to get more than what the record shop will pay.  Requires a few photos. Buyer picks up, this saves postage and packing.

 

6. Same, on SNA.  Includes the hassle of postage, packing, dealing with the unreliable processes at Australia Post, and thieves between the delivery gate and the front door.

 

7. Scan the spines on your scanner and put them up on SNA with individual pricing.  Requires discogs research or be satisfied with what you think they are worth. More postage and packing.

 

Individual pricing increases the revenue but increases the postage and packing.

 

A combination of bulk lots (for the low-value items) and individual sale (for high value) takes time, because you need to know the price for all.

 

You may well have received some PMs from SNA folks offering to look after your CDs for you. The critical distinction in law may well between being owner of the goods (that are stored off site, and keeping copies on site, the law may well be silent about the actual location of your chattels) and selling the goods but keeping copies.  It looks like legal dimensions are known so maybe this question can be answered:

 

6 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

No

Citation required, please.

 

 

[Graceman]

Well that's a comprehensive run-down of your options!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Graceman

[ThirdDrawerDown]

Well, the legal options. There's always the "fake a burglary and claim replacement value minus insurance excess". Not recommended due to the "be charged with faking a burglary" consequences.

[LHC]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

No

Are there any mitigating circumstances? For example if you donated your CDs to charities, schools or libraries. Or if you lost your physical collection due to a house fire, but kept the ripped on the cloud? 

[Silent Screamer]

1 hour ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Citation required, please.

I couldn't be a$$ed looking through all my CDs to find proof, but lets just apply a common sense approach... If you sell your car, do you get to go around to the new owners house and drive it?

The record and video industry has gone to great lengths to stop you pirating disks do you honestly think they will grant you rights to continue to use it once it is out of your procession?

 

There is a good chance that in the fine print you may not be able to even transfer the license to another individual. Most people fail to realise just how limiting a license can be. You own the rights to use the software on the disk under specific conditions, You own the piece of plastic the music is on, but you don't own the rights to the music or the music itself, you are licensed to use it provided you comply with the licensing terms.

 

For example in a previous life I was a Microsoft Senior Licensing Specialist, now if you ask the layman in the street if you are allowed to reuse an OEM license on another PC, some people will know the answer to that. Generally no, the license lives and dies with the hardware it was purchased with. If you purchase the OEM software with a mouse (back in the days of more relaxed System Builder acquisition rules) then the PC on which you first used the mouse is the computer to which the license is then tied to, and when that PC dies the license dies.

 

What most people are probably unaware with is that if you sell that PC to another person you must transfer the CoA, EULA, Manuals and original physical media, because they all form (or did form) the basis of a valid license, and if any part is missing (yes even the manual) then the license to use the software is null and void. What even fewer people knew was that you can only on sell an OEM license once. So once you buy the PC from the system builder (the person you are entering into the agreement with for support) even after you provide all the required licensing materials to the new owner, they then don't have licensing rights to on sell that PC with licensed software. (Yes the majority of these shops selling refurbed PC are probably doing so illegally, unless they have entered into a separate licensing agreement with Microsoft).

 

My point being the chances of you being able to continue to legally use the music after it has been given away / sold / whatever is incredibly slim.

 

 

[ThirdDrawerDown]

Probably true, however "common sense" "music industry" and "consumer rights" do not always intersect in rational ways. Can someone help the OP by referring to actual Australian law?

[andyr]

3 hours ago, Yngvi said:

 

 

 

Brilliant!    But possibly painful to sit on?

 

Andy

 

[Ooogh]

Call me naive but does anyone for a second honestly believe that Lars halfwit and his Metallica cohorts are going to come around to anyone’s house , search the contents of their ripped storage device and demand to see the originals? Is the Australian legal system going to employ it’s best and brightest to sue the pants off some bloke from Upper Combukda West for off loading his CD’s at Vinnies?

 

Donate them ,sell them as a bulk lot or line the bookshelves with them as a reminder of the good old days and a possible diffuser. Otherwise leave them in a big box at the back of the shed in case the Federal Police come knocking at the door checking your copyright details because they couldn’t be bothered busting the Meth Lab next door.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

http://www.musicrights.com.au/fact-sheets/secndhandmusic/

 

https://www.copyright.com.au/about-copyright/exceptions/

Quote

• you own a copy of the music (e.g. a CD)
• you make a copy solely to play on a device you own (e.g. an iPod) in private

You have to own the CD before you make a copy and have to own the CD to keep the copy. The contents of the CD are not "free".

15 minutes ago, Ooogh said:

Call me naive but does anyone for a second honestly believe that Lars halfwit and his Metallica cohorts are going to come around to anyone’s house , search the contents of their ripped storage device and demand to see the originals? Is the Australian legal system going to employ it’s best and brightest to sue the pants off some bloke from Upper Combukda West for off loading his CD’s at Vinnies? 

Lots of CDs are sold through this site. If it became known as a place where people are selling discs and keeping ripped copies, and that this is encouraged by members, then the authorities or copyright holders might just demand a list of who we are and start visiting us, sue  @Marc and other such things. It may not be worth chasing one individual, but a group...

[Addicted to music]

1 hour ago, Ooogh said:

Call me naive but does anyone for a second honestly believe that Lars halfwit and his Metallica cohorts are going to come around to anyone’s house , search the contents of their ripped storage device and demand to see the originals? Is the Australian legal system going to employ it’s best and brightest to sue the pants off some bloke from Upper Combukda West for off loading his CD’s at Vinnies?

 

Donate them ,sell them as a bulk lot or line the bookshelves with them as a reminder of the good old days and a possible diffuser. Otherwise leave them in a big box at the back of the shed in case the Federal Police come knocking at the door checking your copyright details because they couldn’t be bothered busting the Meth Lab next door.

If you are going to copy them and sell them with the copied covers in a store or at the local market,  now that may attract some attention from the relevant authorities.....

[Troyus_]

You can 'donate' them to me if you like

[Silent Screamer]

17 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

If you are going to copy them and sell them with the copied covers in a store or at the local market,  now that may attract some attention from the relevant authorities.....

Ahh the old it will never happen to me mentality... Funny I felt the same way about prostate cancer until they ripped mine out... Before I was a licensing specialist I worked in the Microsoft Anti Piracy department. Make no mistake no one is untouchable. While it may not be practical to launch a law suit against every single person, do you really want to be the the exception to the rule. Let's say you own a couple of hundred CD, and the manufactures goes after you for $25 a CD. If it worth risking a $5000 fine for not keeping the CDs?

 

That's assuming they only hit you up for $25. They could quite easily pull a movie trick and say the want $250,000 per CD.  If you're only going to get a pittance for them, stick them up in the attic, doesn't matter if they get wrecked you just need to have them.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Silent Screamer

[davewantsmoore]

4 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Citation required, please.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=can+i+sell+my+cds+and+keep+digital+copies+"australia"  

Quote

You need to keep your original CDs.

http://www.musicrights.com.au/fact-sheets/formatshifting/

 

4 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

You may well have received some PMs from SNA folks offering to look after your CDs for you. The critical distinction in law may well between being owner of the goods (that are stored off site, and keeping copies on site, the law may well be silent about the actual location of your chattels) and selling the goods but keeping copies.

No.  The person in possession of a copyright music work on a CD.... can make a digital copy.

Quote

provided that no more than one copy is made in that format, the copy is not sold, rented or lent to anyone outside the family or household of the person who owns the original

The relevant clause in the law is:

http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/num_act/caa2006213/sch6.html

Quote

(4)  To avoid doubt, paragraph (3)(d) does not apply to a loan of the earlier copy or the later copy by the lender to a member of the lender's family or household for the member's private and domestic use.

You can lend either the original CDs, or the copies .... but only to your family or household.

 

They do not define "loan" in the act.   I would go out on a limb and say the concept of "loan my entire collection" while I listen to copies, would not be seen as acceptable use.

 

... but obviously there's no need to panic when you hear sirens in the distance   

 

3 hours ago, LHC said:

Are there any mitigating circumstances? For example if you donated your CDs to charities, schools or libraries. Or if you lost your physical collection due to a house fire, but kept the ripped on the cloud? 

No

3 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

The record and video industry has gone to great lengths to stop you pirating disks do you honestly think they will grant you rights to continue to use it once it is out of your procession?

Well we do have (limited) rights to do that .... the industry has no say in that.   Government makes the laws.

3 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

There is a good chance that in the fine print you may not be able to even transfer the license to another individual.  Most people fail to realise just how limiting a license can be.

For music, no.

3 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

software on the disk

Computer software is treated differently.

3 hours ago, Silent Screamer said:

My point being the chances of you being able to continue to legally use the music after it has been given away / sold / whatever is incredibly slim

Yes.   You can't use the music unless you own (or have been loaned) the original ... or if it is a copy, if you are in the family or household of the person who has the original.

3 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

Can someone help the OP by referring to actual Australian law?

I wouldn't have commented, if I wasn't sure it was the law   

2 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Call me naive but does anyone for a second honestly believe that Lars halfwit and his Metallica cohorts are going to come around to anyone’s house

Metallica are coming over to my house?   Sweeeet!

 

No.

2 hours ago, Ooogh said:

search the contents of their ripped storage device and demand to see the originals? Is the Australian legal system going to employ it’s best and brightest to sue the pants off some bloke from Upper Combukda West for off loading his CD’s at Vinnies?

Sure... there's lots of ways to break the law and not get caught.

[ThirdDrawerDown]

1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

stop you pirating disks

Thanks for the specifics. It's good to see the nuance between copying disks (format-shifting for own and family/ household use) and pirating disks (selling to others for profit) is clearly set out, even if the music industry has done its utmost to muddy the waters about what "piracy" means.