Isolation Transformer

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 minute ago, rocky500 said:

This is what is wriiten on their webisite. So thought I would put them on. LINK

 

"

ONE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE

RCDs (Safety Switches) are only effective if they are plugged into the supply. Safety switches on your main switchboard will NOT protect equipment connected to the power supply. We recommend you use an appropriate safety switch on the power supplys output socket."

 

 

Yes - 'appropriate safety switch' - that likely isn't an RCD. Where does the residual current go in a balanced setup?

 

Rocky, not a dig at you, simply that errant electrons have my respect. Balanced isol trans need care, lots of care.

Edited January 7, 2019 by rmpfyf

[rocky500]

3 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

Yes - 'appropriate safety switch' - that likely isn't an RCD. Where does the residual current go in a balanced setup?

Insn't it the same thing?

RCD is a safety switch.

https://www.platinumelectricians.com.au/blog/safety-switches/

[Red MacKay]

Sometimes with AU/NZ Standards there are no clear interpretations for every situation.

It can be like reading legal mumbo jumbo when you are but a layman.

 

What rmpfyf is talking about now is way past my knowledge, so I am staying silent.

Is the trannie you are using  a "balanced" unit Cassesman?  I know mine isn't, so I don't have this issue.

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

6 minutes ago, rocky500 said:

Insn't it the same thing?

RCD is a safety switch.

https://www.platinumelectricians.com.au/blog/safety-switches/

 

An RCD is one of a number of possible safety switches that work differently on different principles. 

 

From that site:

 

"If a person comes into contact with a faulty circuit, they may provide a path to earth, meaning they are at a huge risk of a dangerous electrical shock. Safety switches are a go-between, a middle man that stands between your appliance and your house’s power source. They are designed to monitor current flow. If a shock current or residual current flow is detected, safety switches are required to shut off the circuit within 300 milliseconds."

 

With a balanced isolation trans you effectively lift the earth and don't pass it through then use that wire for other purposes, so the entire safety benefit provided by it ceases to exist, and anything designed to work with a conventional earth cannot function. RCD's are safety switches for your switchboard in that it is a legal regulatory requirement that your switchboard mains is earthed. So they work in that context. 

 

This being said RCDs don't protect against every conceivable fault either - a broken neutral is a relevant (and often fatal) example.

 

Identify what you've got electrically, identify risks, work from there. If in doubt call a power engineer specialising in mains reticulation (usually $200-250/hr).

 

3 minutes ago, Red MacKay said:

Is the trannie you are using  a "balanced" unit Cassesman?  I know mine isn't, so I don't have this issue.

 

I have no idea though saw 'balanced' on Rocky's photo, and thought to comment. It's one of those scenarios where I'd be happy to be wrong. 

 

Would still refer the Standards for best practice on earthing, breaking, etc.

 

And above all know the risks, layperson or not. 

[cazzesman]

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1822338.pdf?_ga=2.148115761.785914256.1545615461-834991493.1545203395

 

@rmpfyf @Rocky @Red MacKay   Folks here are the specs for my Isotran from Page 1.   I can't find anywhere were it says it is a balanced unit.   It does split the 230v to 2 x 115 v but that is all.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by cazzesman

[Guest rmpfyf]

16 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1822338.pdf?_ga=2.148115761.785914256.1545615461-834991493.1545203395

 

@rmpfyf @Rocky @Red MacKay   Folks here are the specs for my Isotran from Page 1.   I can't find anywhere were it says it is a balanced unit.   It does split the 230v to 2 x 115 v but that is all.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Would depend how you've got that wired, Cazz, this is a sort of example I Googled in a rush http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=202259.15

 

Nice bit of kit that trans.

[davewantsmoore]

3 hours ago, cazzesman said:

Your thoughts on the AS 3000 are worth while but if two Certified Electricians can’t agree then we are all doomed.

Nah... It just mean you need to find someone who actually knows.   Not all "certified" people know stuff

 

[andyr]

8 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Nah... It just mean you need to find someone who actually knows.   Not all "certified" people know stuff.

 

^^^ what he said! 

 

Andy

 

[cazzesman]

Lawyers, Doctors, Electricians, Plumbers and Builders.   Yep it is all about 2nd and 3rd opinions in this day and age I guess.

 

I thought this DIY project was simple but it has bought forth plenty of questions/issues/concerns to consider.

 

One thing for sure is that no-matter which way I go with the build, in the end there will now be a big sign on the locked box lid that says.  

 

'Do Not Open until Unplugged from the Wall'

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by cazzesman

[Red MacKay]

16 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

 

I thought this DIY project was simple but it has bought forth plenty of questions/issues/concerns to consider.

Yep, you are certainly correct there.

 

This is pretty specialist stuff we have been chatting over.  I would not expect your normal "wire jerker" registered sparkie to know the detail required here.

 

This is more for the likes of an electrical engineer - eg, Lucas Cant at Black Art and his ilk.

 

But if we plebs all can learn a thing or two here, it's all been worth while.

 

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

3 hours ago, Red MacKay said:

Yep, you are certainly correct there.

 

This is pretty specialist stuff we have been chatting over.  I would not expect your normal "wire jerker" registered sparkie to know the detail required here.

 

This is more for the likes of an electrical engineer - eg, Lucas Cant at Black Art and his ilk.

 

But if we plebs all can learn a thing or two here, it's all been worth while.

 

You'd be surprised how often some engineers get this wrong - had one suggest wiring a separate earth for an isolation trans, big no-no. 

 

Really depends how much you want to spend though a power engineer can sort out your trans issue and give your home reticulation a run through too. Not cheap, but you pay for what you get. 

[Guest rmpfyf]

4 hours ago, cazzesman said:

Lawyers, Doctors, Electricians, Plumbers and Builders.   Yep it is all about 2nd and 3rd opinions in this day and age I guess.

 

I thought this DIY project was simple but it has bought forth plenty of questions/issues/concerns to consider.

 

One thing for sure is that no-matter which way I go with the build, in the end there will now be a big sign on the locked box lid that says.  

 

'Do Not Open until Unplugged from the Wall'

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Well, depending how it's wired you have big risks whether opened or not. Maybe talk to how it's wired?

 

You've got two 115VAC secondaries - how'd you wire, what'd you connect them to?

[cazzesman]

Rmpfyf,

 

see the images on the previous pages.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, cazzesman said:

Rmpfyf,

 

see the images on the previous pages.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

Mate, pictures and my eyeballs are both too low-res to make it out. 

 

Could you ask the guy that wired it or take a bigger photo?

[cazzesman]

Will do,

 

Regards Cazzesman

[cazzesman]

@rmpfyf

[cazzesman]

The orange connector is for the 240v incoming from the wall power point via a 3 pin wall plug .   Grey connector is 2 x 115 outgoing to a standard power board via a female IEC plug.

 

Earth from incoming cable connected to earth fitting on Isotran.     2 x Earth leads from the 2 x115 outgoing plus the earth lead from the outgoing power cable all affixed to the same earth fitting on the isotran (yes via a blue cable)

 

Regards Cazzesman

[Guest rmpfyf]

Would suggest that’s a balanced hookup, though get your own independent advice.

[Guest rmpfyf]

Also @cazzesman, top right of pic - is that an earth coloured green/yellow then soldered to a blue wire? If so, likely illegal on colour and insulation.

[MLXXX]

Before connecting to the isolation transformer, "all is right with the sound":

 

On 24/12/2018 at 9:25 PM, cazzesman said:

Thanks Dave,

 

I have changed nothing in my Audio Pc into the Mutec via USB and yet the sound has now gone.

 

I have no idea why the issue has come and gone but for the time being all is right with the sound.

 

 

With the isolation transformer connected, "the effect it has had on my system is easily discernible":

On 30/12/2018 at 5:26 PM, cazzesman said:

The effect it has had on my system is easily discernible.    All the olde audio cliches; blacker background, gauze lifted, scale, speed, precision, depth and an improvement in the natural richness of the overall sound.  

 

Crazzesman, the usual audiophile approach in these circumstances would be not to tempt fate by disconnecting the isolation transformer, and listening without it, i.e. going back to the arrangement you had before purchasing the 2000VA isolation transformer.  An even stronger audiophile recommendation would be not to give anyone permission to change the connections without telling you. The reason is pretty obvious: you could land in a blind test situation.

 

If you reject this audiophile advice, and attempt a blind test, be prepared for possible disappointment.

[cazzesman]

 ML.    Yep the audio placebo is a great pill.

 

’Care not what others think, care what your ears hear.’

 

If my beloved wife can hear a difference that’s more than good enough for me 

She does not give praise lighty.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[cazzesman]

New improved version completed.    Picking it up tomorrow with the Test & Tag completed and signed off.

 

Lockable Metal box, vents bottom, top and sides, new 15amp cable, Green/Yellow Earth leads all around, Circuit Breaker on Input side and RCBO on Output side.   If need be, I can fit a 40mil PC fan in the end to assist with cooling, but I suspect it won't be required.

 

Thanks to all who 'cajoled' me into doing it properly.   Thanks to those who also sent PM's with invaluable advice and support.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

Did you end up getting  circuit showing your earth routes?

 

Would have considered having the breakers protrude through the case flush so you can make safe before opening. 

 

Can't see from the photo, is the case earthed?

[cazzesman]

40 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Did you end up getting  circuit showing your earth routes?

 

Would have considered having the breakers protrude through the case flush so you can make safe before opening. 

 

Can't see from the photo, is the case earthed?

1. No

2. Considered it.  Thought it was safer locked in box like a normal switch board

3. Yes

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

11 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

1. No

2. Considered it.  Thought it was safer locked in box like a normal switch board

3. Yes

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

1. Get it, and print the schematic on the side of the box. It must show earth routes.
    
2. It's not. What you have is like needing to remove the switch board covers prior to resetting a breaker. Technically under those covers you are potentially operating in a live environment, which is a big no-no. I'm not sure the purpose of the supply side breaker; it's effectively an on/off switch that you need to remove the covers for to be at all effective, and if it's a load protection device purely then the load side RCBO should suffice if sized correctly, no? Consider also that you can isolate the load side but still have a live transformer, which can be the last mistake anyone ever gets to make.
    
3. Earthed to supply side, load side or both?

 

Again, not a ticketed sparky, seek independent advice.