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What’s New In Our Listening Room


TerryO

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Have had the PrimaLuna KT 120’s in the PL for two days now and I am impressed with them, they deliver a tighter but also sweeter sq that is very likeable.  At this point I am preferring them over my usual KT150’s.

Having said that when I heard The normal quality KT120 Tungsols in a PL amp like mine I remember that they didn’t compare well with the KT150’s. It’s also another bonus of using KT120’s over KT150’s to be able to have the tube cover back on the amp.

 

 

4A6BF894-2652-4F75-8B0C-B9E52E8D3B0A.jpeg
 

The one down side of this model PL amp is it’s not inexpensive to revalve one of theses amps with eight power tubes.

831D2C4C-B799-4595-861F-F04E83F593AF.jpeg

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1 minute ago, muon* said:

I think the PL KT 120's are just rebranded Tung Sol's.

 

They developed and manufacturer the KT 120 and KT 150 if I'm not mistaken.

Yes Muon, as far as I know they are, but if you have ever heard PL branded power valves compared to the normal Tungsols then you know that the PL PR that they have put out there about how PL gets the pick of the Tungsol production line is more than likely true. 
 

cheers,

Terry

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1 minute ago, TerryO said:

Yes Muon, as far as I know they are, but if you have ever heard PL branded power valves compared to the normal Tungsols then you know that the PL PR that they have put out there about how PL gets the pick of the Tungsol production line is more than likely true. 
 

cheers,

Terry

Tighter tolerances?

 

Maybe.

 

If they sound better they sound better :thumb:

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Bruce (BAM) and I last night did some tube rolling with the PrimaLuna and as I have found previously any one small change in the system can have a big knock on effect.

 

Having recently fitted the PrimaLuna KT 120’s and enjoying the sq improvement I thought I should revisit the combinations of 12au7’s to see if the combination I had was working the best.

 

The inner two 12au7’s I have recently been using are Mullard CV4003’s, then Two matching Valvo’s in the middle two spots and the outer two Japanese NEC’s. 
This may seem a strange combination given most everyone only changes the two middle 12au7’s in their PL amps.
While often said the other four 12au7’s are not such a big deal I have found the opposite, the rolling of the other four valves is just as important as the inner two. 
 

Over a period of years of trying different combinations with the KT150’s power tubes I nearly always went back to the Haltron Tilburg 12au7’s in the centre two spots. Last night showed that the Tilbergs are not such a good combination with the 120’s and while the Mullard’s did match the 120’s pretty well the second best in the centre was the Valvo’s, easily last was the NEC’s and Brimar’s.


This time around easily by far the tubes that sounded the best in the centre was some NOS RadioTechique 12au7’s that I used to listen to in that spot early on.
 

Then we tried various combinations of the other four valves, with Brimar’s, the Tilburgs, PrimaLuna branded Tungsols, Tungsram E80CC’s and the Mullards, plus a second set of RadioTechiques. We spent ages swapping back and forth various combinations and again the best combination was RadioTechique centre, Valvo’s middle and the NEC’s the outer two. 
 

The PrimaLuna started seriously playing up recently but had been losing its steam for sometime. I took it to Andy McLean who worked out there was no fault, rather taking the valves out repeatedly and then refitting them cleaned the pins and the sockets which put it back to its former glory. 
 

While I have been a huge fan of the KT150’s I must admit these PrimaLuna branded KT120’s sound better when combined with the Music Fidelity 550K Superchargers. Without the Superchargers being used inline though the KT150’s and Tilbergs are king.

 

Again this episode proved to me that synergy is so important.

 

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.

 

AB15F67A-2324-49EB-93EE-5EFD2803F5FC.jpeg

Edited by TerryO
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While not the VA Concert or Baby Grands I’m pleasantly surprised at how good the Hayden stand mounts sound and how much they fill the room with music.  

Like their big brothers they really like being feed lots of power, as long as I don’t get to carried away with the MF Superchargers all should be good. ... :angel:

 

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32E805F4-150D-4BC4-9881-87DE1E4E198A.jpeg

Edited by TerryO
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  • 3 months later...

I was lucky to recently obtain a pair of used VA Haydn 30th Jubilee edition stand mounts, physically they are smaller than the standard Haydn’s and are also rear ported and have different drivers.
Given it was a slow day I decided to find out how they sound in the untreated TV room. Interestingly they sound a lot nicer with the PrimaLuna CDP than the Oppo which sounds better with the Baby Grands, go figure!.
The Jubilee’s are a truly lovely sounding pair of speakers and it’s hard to believe, unless heard, that you would get such a large dynamic sound from such a small stand mounts. Added to that my old favourite Weston Time Machine is back after a years absence while Mhel tries out the Icon’s at his place, I hate to admit it but I had forgotten just what an excellent amplifier it is.

 

D50D9DD5-DD8C-4E8C-8DA8-CABE4A12E73B.jpeg
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The Haydn Jubilee’s are noticeably smaller than current model Haydn’s as can be seen.

 

78F9FB14-1611-434E-B339-F3B37D8FE5C2.jpeg
 

Former member Mark (Scumbag) loaned me a pair of Synergistic Research XOT Transducers to try out and while many call them snake oil I have had impressive results with them in both my systems.
Having said that I took them over to a mates place and when we tried them they actually made his system sound not so good. ...  Again go figure.

 

 

19C87ED2-5AB1-4900-9C88-2D31786C3812.jpeg

Edited by TerryO
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1 minute ago, Darren69 said:

You might like some ML2 ref mate 

Jeff (Cafad) reckon’s he is going to bring his ML2’s down some time for a listen. The reality is I kick myself for not buying your ML5’s when you decided to move them on, just bad timing unfortunately. ... ?

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15 minutes ago, TerryO said:

Jeff (Cafad) reckon’s he is going to bring his ML2’s down some time for a listen. The reality is I kick myself for not buying your ML5’s when you decided to move them on, just bad timing unfortunately. ... ?

Like my wise muvva says, there’s always a reason we didn’t do something. ML2s might be like ML5s except with that huge stand mount sound stage. The ML5s are just up the road from you in Brissy. Dynaudio are also pretty awesome too mate. Shop down here in Lismore will look after you. Tell the big hipster I sent you and it might cost you a bit more. ?

 

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12 hours ago, Darren69 said:

Like my wise muvva says, there’s always a reason we didn’t do something. ML2s might be like ML5s except with that huge stand mount sound stage. The ML5s are just up the road from you in Brissy. Dynaudio are also pretty awesome too mate. Shop down here in Lismore will look after you. Tell the big hipster I sent you and it might cost you a bit more. ?

 

Thanks Darren yes there are some lovely speakers around at present for not a lot of money, but for now I am happy with what I have. I came close to buying some C4’s when they were on run out, was given a price of $15k delivered and set up in my room, but while I could buy them I couldn’t hear them first so decided against. 
 

I’m looking forward to hearing Cafad’s ML2’s in my room eventually, but must admit I prefer floor mounts to stand mounts. 
 

cheers,

Terry

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On 30/06/2020 at 5:26 PM, muon* said:

These perk my interest.

Not sure how they would compare to the mighty Lenehan ML-2 Reference though.

While I’m sure there are plenty of speakers with ribbon tweeters that sound wonderful, to date I have to admit, I have not heard any that I have really enjoyed or would consider buying.

 

cheers,

Terry

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Having been lucky enough to experience Terry's set-ups recently I can honestly say the scale of sound I heard that day was a game changer in my "journey". No amount of research and time on this place can come close to hearing music as large in scale and depth as was on show in Terry's main room. It's something you can't hear in a showroom either, it only comes when someone puts their heart and soul into system matching and tweaking and gets it right.

 

The experience sent me back home with my tail between my legs, but it did make me rethink my speaker positioning to the point that for now anyway by giving my speakers more room from the front wall its increased the depth of the sound I'm hearing. Im certainly nowhere near the scale that I heard that day, but it did prove to me (AGAIN!) the power of speaker positioning and provided me with a pretty considerable upgrade in sound without changing a single component. So much so the speaker upgrade I was looking to do has been shelved.... for now anyway!

 

So thanks again Terry, what you have curated is exceptional and being able to experience it helped me learn more about this game than I thought I was going to!

Edited by Hi-Fi Whipped
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39 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

So thanks again Terry, what you have curated is exceptional and being able to experience it helped me learn more about this game than I thought I was going to!

sounds like have been well placed at the top of the slippery slope for a upcoming wild ride :D do remember to wave while on the way through :D 

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37 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

So thanks again Terry, what you have curated is exceptional and being able to experience it helped me learn more about this game than I thought I was going to!

Thank you very much Dean, seriously it was my pleasure to have you visit, it is a good thing to be able to meet face to face other 'SNA members' (meaning hifi nut jobs like me) and be able to discuss the pro's and con's of hifi while enjoying listening to music.

 

cheers,

Terry

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Terry I have really enjoyed this thread and love seeing people get such joy from their systems,  I only have a very modest setup, maybe one day if I ever build a new place I can have a dedicated listening room as I think that is the only way my wife would agree to be having a large setup again.   

For now I will admire your system from afar while enjoying the hell out of my little system.  If it puts a smile on our dials we are all winning right?

I5aOpSfl.jpg

Edited by idiomatically
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22 hours ago, idiomatically said:

Terry I have really enjoyed this thread and love seeing people get such joy from their systems,  I only have a very modest setup, maybe one day if I ever build a new place I can have a dedicated listening room as I think that is the only way my wife would agree to be having a large setup again.   

For now I will admire your system from afar while enjoying the hell out of my little system.  If it puts a smile on our dials we are all winning right?

I5aOpSfl.jpg

100% agree Matthew, it is all about enjoying the music.. If you are interested occasionally a few of us have a gtg down here and you are more than welcome to come along if you have the time.

 

cheers,

Terry

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8 hours ago, TerryO said:

While I’m sure there are plenty of speakers with ribbon tweeters that sound wonderful, to date I have to admit, I have not heard any that I have really enjoyed or would consider buying.

 

cheers,

Terry

I tend to lean towards soft dome myself, and I have only heard those Elac in youtube vids :thumb:

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This is about several tweaks I have tried in my system recently.
 

I couple of weeks ago asked a question about the Synergistic Research XOT Transducers in the Tweaks v Science  thread which has started a discussion. As time and personal experience  has transpired I recently wrote about what I had found using them myself, but today decided that I should add what I found in here as well, given it’s about my system.

 

Tweak One. “I have had the loan of a well run in pair and a new pair of SR XOT’s that have been slowly running in for over a week or so and I have swapped them back and forth, so I have experienced both what they end up sounding like and their journey from new which is sounding quite harsh and a bit thin to gradually gaining depth and smoothness.
 

What have these gizmo’s done to my main system? Greater depth, more dynamic’s and they bring the sound stage forward and wider with greater definition and refined but stronger bass and my system now actually sounds like the volume has increased. But after playing around with them for quite a while I have found they actually strip volume, even though for some reason my system sounds louder when they are connected. I even measured it using a DB meter and in fact the decibels are actually less by at least several at the same settings but the system does sound louder, go figure. 
 

So yes Pete I agree it seems like they act as a filter, when I was over at Mike’s recently I had Andy check them over and they are not electrical, so what ever is in them I have no idea, but it does make a difference, not always good. I also tried them in another mates system and they made his system sound bloated in the bass and not so good, but his system presently sounds quite bloated unfortunately. In another friends system which is far superior to mine and whom also bought a new pair the same time I did now they are nearly run in his system sounds freaking amazing with them fitted.
Basically I reckon they amplify the strengths and weaknesses in your system”

 

What I will add Is the XOT’s in my system make what was already a pretty dynamic sounding system sound like it came live, no mean achievement I reckon.

 

Tweak 2. Some months ago I purchased some stuff from the Mad Scientist in NZ and he sent me a small bottle of Graphine fluid which sat in a draw until yesterday when I took it out and painted it on all of the speaker cable banana plugs, which of I have double the normal from using the MF Superchargers, which means four speaker cables instead of two. The result was instant, better bass and added amplification of the improvements that the XOT’s had added. Very impressive I must say.

 

Tweak 3. Another tweak came in the form of a Marigo Aida CD mat which was loaned to me by a friend from the Queensland Audio club, the improvement in sq from my Droplet CDP was very impressive with the Aida mat added. The Droplet is now much closer to analogue sounding, it is richer and smoother and with better decay in the sound it delivers. Which in some ways is a pain as I was more going down the path of swapping over to the Antipodes music server.
Some of the sweetness added by the mat is hidden if used in conjunction with the XOT’s which make the system sound far more dynamic and in fact the Droplet with the Aida mat sounded nicer with the XOT’s not connected. However the Droplet without the Aida mat fitted sounds better with the XOT’s fitted very much as does the Antipodes.  Interestingly I am using the DAC from the Droplet with the Antipodes as well. I will soon be buying one of these Aida mats, while not cheap they make a impressive improvement in sq so for me well worth the investment.
 

One thing I will gladly say though, the digital side of my system with these tweaks added is sounding much better than it ever has before. On another front, I have not played a record for several weeks, so it will be interesting to find out how the analogue delivery side of the system sounds with the XOT’s.

 

One caveat while these tweaks have had a positive impact on my system they might not with someone else’s, the more time I spend in this hobby the more I understand that synergy between components is so important and what sounds good in my room with my gear might not in someone else’s.
 

Sorry no pics with this post, just my ramblings.

 

cheers,

Terry

 

Edited by TerryO
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On ‎5‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 9:50 AM, TerryO said:

This is about several tweaks I have tried in my system recently.
 

I couple of weeks ago asked a question about the Synergistic Research XOT Transducers in the Tweaks v Science  thread which has started a discussion. As time and personal experience  has transpired I recently wrote about what I had found using them myself, but today decided that I should add what I found in here as well, given it’s about my system.

 

Tweak One. “I have had the loan of a well run in pair and a new pair of SR XOT’s that have been slowly running in for over a week or so and I have swapped them back and forth, so I have experienced both what they end up sounding like and their journey from new which is sounding quite harsh and a bit thin to gradually gaining depth and smoothness.
 

What have these gizmo’s done to my main system? Greater depth, more dynamic’s and they bring the sound stage forward and wider with greater definition and refined but stronger bass and my system now actually sounds like the volume has increased. But after playing around with them for quite a while I have found they actually strip volume, even though for some reason my system sounds louder when they are connected. I even measured it using a DB meter and in fact the decibels are actually less by at least several at the same settings but the system does sound louder, go figure. 
 

So yes Pete I agree it seems like they act as a filter, when I was over at Mike’s recently I had Andy check them over and they are not electrical, so what ever is in them I have no idea, but it does make a difference, not always good. I also tried them in another mates system and they made his system sound bloated in the bass and not so good, but his system presently sounds quite bloated unfortunately. In another friends system which is far superior to mine and whom also bought a new pair the same time I did now they are nearly run in his system sounds freaking amazing with them fitted.
Basically I reckon they amplify the strengths and weaknesses in your system”

 

What I will add Is the XOT’s in my system make what was already a pretty dynamic sounding system sound like it came live, no mean achievement I reckon.

 

Tweak 2. Some months ago I purchased some stuff from the Mad Scientist in NZ and he sent me a small bottle of Graphine fluid which sat in a draw until yesterday when I took it out and painted it on all of the speaker cable banana plugs, which of I have double the normal from using the MF Superchargers, which means four speaker cables instead of two. The result was instant, better bass and added amplification of the improvements that the XOT’s had added. Very impressive I must say.

 

Tweak 3. Another tweak came in the form of a Marigo Aida CD mat which was loaned to me by a friend from the Queensland Audio club, the improvement in sq from my Droplet CDP was very impressive with the Aida mat added. The Droplet is now much closer to analogue sounding, it is richer and smoother and with better decay in the sound it delivers. Which in some ways is a pain as I was more going down the path of swapping over to the Antipodes music server.
Some of the sweetness added by the mat is hidden if used in conjunction with the XOT’s which make the system sound far more dynamic and in fact the Droplet with the Aida mat sounded nicer with the XOT’s not connected. However the Droplet without the Aida mat fitted sounds better with the XOT’s fitted very much as does the Antipodes.  Interestingly I am using the DAC from the Droplet with the Antipodes as well. I will soon be buying one of these Aida mats, while not cheap they make a impressive improvement in sq so for me well worth the investment.
 

One thing I will gladly say though, the digital side of my system with these tweaks added is sounding much better than it ever has before. On another front, I have not played a record for several weeks, so it will be interesting to find out how the analogue delivery side of the system sounds with the XOT’s.

 

One caveat while these tweaks have had a positive impact on my system they might not with someone else’s, the more time I spend in this hobby the more I understand that synergy between components is so important and what sounds good in my room with my gear might not in someone else’s.
 

Sorry no pics with this post, just my ramblings.

 

cheers,

Terry

 

Nice, sorry I was gone when you called back last week...I waited for a while then...well..wandered out to the garden... :D 

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11 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

Nice, sorry I was gone when you called back last week...I waited for a while then...well..wandered out to the garden... :D 

That would be right, pruning the Hydrangers is more importanat than talking HiFi. .... ? 

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