One sub or two.

[Kensell21]

Hi all.

 

Currently thinking about refreshing subs then speakers for my home theatre.

Currently a 7.1 but when my new amp (Denon avr X4400) arrives,

I'll be looking at 7.1.2, possibly 7.2.4.

Room size is 5m x 7m..

Are two smaller subs better than one big one?

Living in Adelaide so spoilt for choice at having both VAF and then Krix who are just down the road for me...

[Snoopy8]

The general consensus is 2 smaller subs is better than 1 large sub. The key is to place them in your room to even out the bass.  Some reading material:

https://www.aperionaudio.com/blogs/aperion-audio-blog/dual-subwoofer-placement-for-your-home

https://www.gikacoustics.com/room-setup-speaker-placement-201-part-two-subwoofers/

 

[powerav]

22 minutes ago, Kensell21 said:

Are two smaller subs better than one big one?

I believe so. Get one of these for ease of setup http://www.deephzaudio.com/DSPeaker Anti-mode8033 auto sub equaliser product page.html or go down the MSO path.

[hopefullguy]

hmm first you have the audyssey xt32 which can set up 2 subs ok. when saying 2 small subs are better than one it is quite subjective. ie will 2 svs pb1000's be better than 1 psa XV30F SE ? or the plethora of 2nd hand big subs that regularly pop up.

 

5m x 7m i am guessing 2.7 ceilings is about 3500 cubic feet, again guessing it is a "closed" room. you can also contact peter at deep hz audiohttp://www.deephzaudio.com/index.html  for an opinion. as with the others you have mentioned. also in adelaide you could contact adelaide speaker company  http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/  oh the guys name escapes me but i have spoken to him before and he is good to deal with.

 

budget, expectations and previous sub use will guide you.

[muriwai]

I went for 6 subs all daisy chained from the .2 sub outs,works a treat[emoji6]
Neighbors know when I put on Fury!!

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, Kensell21 said:

 

Hi all.

 

Currently thinking about refreshing subs then speakers for my home theatre.

Currently a 7.1 but when my new amp (Denon avr X4400) arrives,

I'll be looking at 7.1.2, possibly 7.2.4.

Room size is 5m x 7m..

Are two smaller subs better than one big one?

Living in Adelaide so spoilt for choice at having both VAF and then Krix who are just down the road for me...

 

in my experience. get the one decent sub rather than two half decent splitting the price. get best sub can afford and rather than the half decent ones it will dig deeper, punch harder and and add a heck of a lot more fun factor than just some average subs instead.

 

the other thing with subs is its hard enough to optimally place one, let alone optimally placing two. if using multi subs they work together. so keep in mind if not optimally placed they can actually even work against each other.  

 

krix make some great subs and with them local, be hard to understand why wouldn't get one off them. in a room that size I would go something like tektonix or volcanix. 

 

https://www.krix.com.au/subwoofer/

[Kensell21]

I believe so. Get one of these for ease of setup http://www.deephzaudio.com/DSPeaker Anti-mode8033 auto sub equaliser product page.html or go down the MSO path.

Thanks looks interesting.. MSO???

[Kensell21]

hmm first you have the audyssey xt32 which can set up 2 subs ok. when saying 2 small subs are better than one it is quite subjective. ie will 2 svs pb1000's be better than 1 psa XV30F SE ? or the plethora of 2nd hand big subs that regularly pop up.
 
5m x 7m i am guessing 2.7 ceilings is about 3500 cubic feet, again guessing it is a "closed" room. you can also contact peter at deep hz audiohttp://www.deephzaudio.com/index.html  for an opinion. as with the others you have mentioned. also in adelaide you could contact adelaide speaker company  http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/  oh the guys name escapes me but i have spoken to him before and he is good to deal with.
 
budget, expectations and previous sub use will guide you.

Yes closed room.
Adelaide Speaker Company is only 10 minutes away.
Spoken to Edward a couple of times.

[Kensell21]

in my experience. get the one decent sub rather than two half decent splitting the price. get best sub can afford and rather than the half decent ones it will dig deeper, punch harder and and add a heck of a lot more fun factor than just some average subs instead.
 
the other thing with subs is its hard enough to optimally place one, let alone optimally placing two. if using multi subs they work together. so keep in mind if not optimally placed they can actually even work against each other.  
 
krix make some great subs and with them local, be hard to understand why wouldn't get one off them. in a room that size I would go something like tektonix or volcanix. 
 
https://www.krix.com.au/subwoofer/

Thanks Al. Krix factory is only 10 minutes away!! [emoji4]
They do put out some great subs.
Had some time speaking with Simon from VAF the other night.
They had a Sony night.. Enjoyed listening to a couple of their systems.. From their “awesome” room to a more modest 7.2.2 room with some very tiny speakers. Great sounds from both rooms.

[betty boop]

1 minute ago, Kensell21 said:

Thanks Al. Krix factory is only 10 minutes away!!
They do put out some great subs.
Had some time speaking with Simon from VAF the other night.
They had a Sony night.. Enjoyed listening to a couple of their systems.. From their “awesome” room to a more modest 7.2.2 room with some very tiny speakers. Great sounds from both rooms.

have never ever heard a vaf sub kensell, so cant comment but it would be crazy given your close proximity to such great speaker makers that dont consider buying local  

[Snoopy8]

40 minutes ago, Kensell21 said:

Thanks looks interesting.. MSO???

That would be this! 

 

[gillmaverick]

Hi Kensell ,

I have  2 X Adelaide speakers 12 inch subs and I am happy with them. Mine live in our lounge which is 7 meters X  6 meters roughly and they work alright. Audyssey had me turn down he volume very low. 2 subs even out the bass better than a single one in my opinion.

Cheers ,

Gill

[Kensell21]

have never ever heard a vaf sub kensell, so cant comment but it would be crazy given your close proximity to such great speaker makers that dont consider buying local [emoji4] 

Indeed Al.. it looks like it’ll be either Krix or VAF I think...
although I’ve heard a few VAF subs, there’s not many reviews of them that I can see online.. however, Krix seem to get rave reviews from the local audio mags.
Other question would be, do I then stay with the same manufacturer for the rest of the speakers?

[Kensell21]

Hi Kensell ,
I have  2 X Adelaide speakers 12 inch subs and I am happy with them. Mine live in our lounge which is 7 meters X  6 meters roughly and they work alright. Audyssey had me turn down he volume very low. 2 subs even out the bass better than a single one in my opinion.
Cheers ,
Gill

Thanks Gill.. Edward does seem to have value for money.

[betty boop]

Just now, Kensell21 said:

Other question would be, do I then stay with the same manufacturer for the rest of the speakers?

not necessary, other speakers can be let be. subs are subs can be any brand, no need to match up other speakers to same brand

[powerav]

 

[bmc]

You are correct that low frequencies appear to be non directional, but the idea of using 2 subs is not to create a stereo effect but rather to smooth out peaks and nulls in the frequency response caused by the acoustics of the room.

Edited January 12, 2019 by bmc

[Benje]

no difference for stereo or HT stardust.

You are trying to get a flatter bass response - stereo and HT.

The two subs even out room modes. If they are located correctly.

[Nada]

43 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I was always under the impression that a subwoofer's sound wasn't directional, therefore 2 subs wouldn't really be of much benefit?

For music via stereo speakers that have really poor bass extension, then twin subs might be worth a trial.  While <80Hz is meant to be unable to be located spatially, if you play music via your sub only with the main speakers unpowered  you might find it easy to locate the subwoofer. This may be as its playing higher notes via a low pass filter set high or a filter with a slow roll off or the harmonics of the bass fundamentals have a significant output into the mid-bass region.  So for stereo systems sometimes  trying twin subs positioned near the main speakers can sound better for stereo. Besides improving stereo imaging it allows the subwoofers to work less hard so the drivers move less and distort less.  Then again most stereos just dont need subwoofers as a lot of music has little energy under 60Hz. 

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, Benje said:

no difference for stereo or HT stardust.

You are trying to get a flatter bass response - stereo and HT.

The two subs even out room modes. If they are located correctly.

Agree.  Ideally, the room should be treated as well.  But if the room is shared, the better half is unlikely to approve bass traps!   

 

One or more subs is then the only way to get a decent bass, but they must be positioned correctly.  I went a step further by using a DSP for the subs.

[Gridmon]

Low frequencies are much more likely to create standing waves in typical sized rooms - 20hz sound wave is 17m long where as 20khz is only 17mm.
So when the sound is reflected off walls and comes back to hit you again you could end up with negative part of a low frequency wave hitting you a fraction after the original wave and nearly cancelling it out. Or depending on the travelled path you could have a peak on a peak and nearly double it (the reflection will have less amplitude from distance and diffusion).
If you play some low frequencies test tones and move around the room you should be able to confirm this yourself. Or better still get some good acoustic measurement software like REW (free) and a suitable calibrated Omni mic and you can quantify it across freq range and listening positions and with different sub placement.
Hence I’ve just ordered a pair of subs (my first) to go with my switch to bookshelf speakers. This isn’t to make more bass impact but to even out low frequencies and try my best to get good tight bass where I need it. Will also be using DSPs, experimentation with positioning, maybe some treatments depending on how it goes.

[Gridmon]

PS if you’re a surfer then you will probably have seen places with a big back wash then can double your wave, and or experience another wave sucking out your wave.

[powerav]

53 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Thanks for your posts, but I'm afraid I don't know what a DSP is.

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml this is simple plug and play device without the need for PC's or software.

[powerav]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Thank you @powerav , now I understand. It's quite expensive though at € 281.45, or € 322.00 for the enhanced version.

No worries, is around $400 from deep hz audio, for the massive improvement it has made to my system even just for music I though it was a bargain compared to other systems.

[powerav]

Just now, Stardust said:

 

Thanks again. Is this the place you mentioned? http://www.deephzaudio.com/

Yes, you can email and ask any questions