Epson TW 9400 Owners Discussion Thread

[j19801110]

We have confirmed that the new pixel structure is there for 4K 24p material but not there (or not the same) for 60hz material. 

[j19801110]

This is what I sent to the UK forum. It may make things a bit easier:

 

The new 1.03 firmware seems to add an extra pixel position for pixel shifting for 4K 24p material. The pixel structure looks like they are making the panels transmissive at the halfway point between the two previous pixel positions.

We have been discussing this on the US forums, and I would like you guys to check this out as well.

I am using the Australian firmware which should be the same as the UK one.

There's lots of other changes to HDR, but this is the first time a manufacturer actually increased the resolution of a projector using a firmware upgrade.

Please note that they are not doing this on 60hz material so it won't show on your xbox one X, only 24hz movies.

Also another thing to note: DO NOT USE PANEL ALIGNMENT. TURN IT OFF if you want to see the full resolution the machine is capable of. When you use fine adjustment (a few clicks here and there), the resolution in some of the colour channels is halved. Put on Lucy or Aquaman menu in 4K and turn your panel alignment on or off. You'll see what I mean.

You will need to re-do your focus after the firmware update. 

1. Update firmware
2. Turn off panel alignment
3. Warm up machine for 30mins on medium lamp
4. Re-do your focus feeding 1080p and 4K enhancement off
5. Feed the machine 4K 24p UHD material actually mastered at 4K (like Lucy), not the studio upscaled stuff.

The pixel structure should now look like diagonal lines with tiny dots in between them (as opposed to pixels with tiny dots in between them like with the previous firmware) and the image should look sharper than before.

Enjoy!

[homerlovesbeer]

Nice....looking forward to the results.

[j19801110]

A few more things about pixel shifting since testing it more:

- looks like 3x 1080p for 4K 60Hz at 4:2:0

- looks like 4 x 1080p for 24p material!! (That is full 4K but of course pixel shifting has inherent blur so won’t be as sharp as native 4K)

 

others have reported seeing no change for 4K 60hz but I presume they are using 4K 60 at 4:4:4 (or they assume no change because it looks different from 24p)

 

Also: DISABLE THE PANASONIC OPTIMISER!!! The Epson now does a MUCH BETTER JOB!!

Edited June 6, 2020 by j19801110

[homerlovesbeer]

41 minutes ago, j19801110 said:

A few more things about pixel shifting since testing it more:

- looks like 3x 1080p for 4K 60Hz at 4:2:0

- looks like 4 x 1080p for 24p material!! (That is full 4K but of course pixel shifting has inherent blur so won’t be as sharp as native 4K)

 

others have reported seeing no change for 4K 60hz but I presume they are using 4K 60 at 4:4:4 (or they assume no change because it looks different from 24p)

 

Also: DISABLE THE PANASONIC OPTIMISER!!! The Epson now does a MUCH BETTER JOB!!

Any pics?

[j19801110]

8 hours ago, homerlovesbeer said:

Any pics?

Yup, on AVSForum if you’re so inclined

[homerlovesbeer]

1 hour ago, j19801110 said:

Yup, on AVSForum if you’re so inclined

I can't find it

[cwt]

21 hours ago, homerlovesbeer said:

I can't find it

Avs forum separates the under $3000 projectors from the higher ones . The TW9400 is equivalent to the 5050 or 6050 [ depending on retail strategies and freebies like globes] 

Some nice shots from j19801110 '

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/3060314-epson-5050ub-6050ub-thread-no-price-talk-238.html

[homerlovesbeer]

same username in AVSforum?

 

Also how will a 125" 16:9 image look at 3.7M - 3.8m (no choice in screen size due acoustic motorised screen requirements)? Will I see the screen door effect?

 

Cheers.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by homerlovesbeer

[cwt]

3 hours ago, homerlovesbeer said:

same username in AVSforum?

 

Also how will a 125" 16:9 image look at 3.7M - 3.8m (no choice in screen size due acoustic motorised screen requirements)? Will I see the screen door effect?

The clue is Sydney Australia rollon1980

No chance of SDE at that distance ; even with lcds not so hot fill factor the pixel shifting will have a good effect . Just dont pixel peep from a ft away 

[flamjam]

20 hours ago, homerlovesbeer said:

Also how will a 125" 16:9 image look at 3.7M - 3.8m (no choice in screen size due acoustic motorised screen requirements)? Will I see the screen door effect?

 

Cheers.

My seating begins at 3.2m on a 125 inch 16x9 screen and I see no SDE. You will be fine.

[hopefullguy]

+1 no SDE ehtw8200 3.3m to 123" screen

[homerlovesbeer]

Sweet!

 

Thanks guys!

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by homerlovesbeer

[oztheatre]

Any closer than 1 x image width and you are likely to see SDE. Otherwise it's a non issue at normal seating distances.

 

[Addikt]

Any TW9400 users experience with gaming? What is the input lag like?

 

I used to have a tw9000w, great projector with terrible input lag for gaming. Next projector I buy needs good input lag as well as being as good if not better then my previous TW9000W.

[Johnny_Boy]

15 hours ago, Addikt said:

Any TW9400 users experience with gaming? What is the input lag like?

 

I used to have a tw9000w, great projector with terrible input lag for gaming. Next projector I buy needs good input lag as well as being as good if not better then my previous TW9000W.

From a bit of googling, the 9000 was around the 65ms lag, the 9400 is under 30ms. 

Up to you if thats good enough, i dont game on mine so cant comment. 

 

[betty boop]

16 hours ago, Addikt said:

Any TW9400 users experience with gaming? What is the input lag like?

 

I used to have a tw9000w, great projector with terrible input lag for gaming. Next projector I buy needs good input lag as well as being as good if not better then my previous TW9000W.

really depends how picky you are... i remember the 9000 and did gaming on it as i have subsequent projectors, my current one is 33ms and is fine. hard core gamers are very picky with this kind of thing ...and this may or may not be good enough for you. you'll definitely get better whether its good enough ...

[Addikt]

8 hours ago, Johnny_Boy said:

From a bit of googling, the 9000 was around the 65ms lag, the 9400 is under 30ms. 

Up to you if thats good enough, i dont game on mine so cant comment. 

 

 

7 hours ago, betty boop said:

really depends how picky you are... i remember the 9000 and did gaming on it as i have subsequent projectors, my current one is 33ms and is fine. hard core gamers are very picky with this kind of thing ...and this may or may not be good enough for you. you'll definitely get better whether its good enough ...

I really noticed it on racing games and it was unplayable for me on the Tw9000. I should just take in a console to a retailer and try it out. Thank you for your input

[oztheatre]

On 17/06/2020 at 8:04 PM, Addikt said:

Any TW9400 users experience with gaming? What is the input lag like?

 

I used to have a tw9000w, great projector with terrible input lag for gaming. Next projector I buy needs good input lag as well as being as good if not better then my previous TW9000W.

It's ok, but if you're coming from PC gaming with their 1 and 2 ms lag time monitors then 30ms is noticeable, otherwise it's ok.

[Addikt]

4 hours ago, oztheatre said:

It's ok, but if you're coming from PC gaming with their 1 and 2 ms lag time monitors then 30ms is noticeable, otherwise it's ok.

I game on a LG OLED C7 at the moment so I think it is around 15ms. I don't expect the jump to 30ms to be too noticeable but it is a sizeable investment that I want to ensure suits my needs. Never been a PC gamer, consoles have always been my thang.

[j19801110]

16 hours ago, Addikt said:

I game on a LG OLED C7 at the moment so I think it is around 15ms. I don't expect the jump to 30ms to be too noticeable but it is a sizeable investment that I want to ensure suits my needs. Never been a PC gamer, consoles have always been my thang.

I don’t play competitive gaming online, just offline games so I’m probably not the best to say but I like gaming on the 9400. HDR gaming especially is pretty cool. the picture quality is great. i much prefer gaming on this than a JVC especially as I don’t have to worry about bulb replacements and it gets much brighter. Epson bulbs are now almost 1/7th of the cost of a new JVC bulb, they are brighter and better designed. JVC is getting borderline ridiculous, although they can’t be beaten on picture quality on movies. But I have more and more resentment towards them and I’m sure others too. I now usually recommend people find other alternatives unless they really can’t live without a JVC. Too much hassle and crap support. 

[betty boop]

9 hours ago, j19801110 said:

I don’t play competitive gaming online, just offline games so I’m probably not the best to say but I like gaming on the 9400. HDR gaming especially is pretty cool. the picture quality is great. i much prefer gaming on this than a JVC especially as I don’t have to worry about bulb replacements and it gets much brighter. Epson bulbs are now almost 1/7th of the cost of a new JVC bulb, they are brighter and better designed. JVC is getting borderline ridiculous, although they can’t be beaten on picture quality on movies. But I have more and more resentment towards them and I’m sure others too. I now usually recommend people find other alternatives unless they really can’t live without a JVC. Too much hassle and crap support. 

I dont know if you are aware but there are actually a few low cost bulb options I know with folk using JVc. i under stand your resentment (have read about this before) with the brand but however some of us are actually quite happy using. in fact i have been for 3 generations of JVC projectors now and owned 2 generations of epson as well. ironically both epson had issues, one took 3 months of fighting with epson, other multiple visits to the workshop. I've only had one DOA jvc in all years of ownership(no other issues) and it was dealt with promptly, with a replacement before old one was even picked up - helps to have a decent retailer !  i actually got a free genuine lamp with my jvc. and given 4500 hours claimed and we are seeing some pretty long life in lamps. certainly mine saw little to no drop off in 3-4 years of ownership with last generation owned.

 

if going through lamps like no tomorrow perhaps a projector not for you. you can get exact same immersion from a 32" flat panel on your desk top ! yes can sit 1-1.5x screen heights and well within THX spec for immersion.... I know some that run a 50" on their desk but thats is ultra extreme !

[j19801110]

15 hours ago, betty boop said:

I dont know if you are aware but there are actually a few low cost bulb options I know with folk using JVc. i under stand your resentment (have read about this before) with the brand but however some of us are actually quite happy using. in fact i have been for 3 generations of JVC projectors now and owned 2 generations of epson as well. ironically both epson had issues, one took 3 months of fighting with epson, other multiple visits to the workshop. I've only had one DOA jvc in all years of ownership(no other issues) and it was dealt with promptly, with a replacement before old one was even picked up - helps to have a decent retailer !  i actually got a free genuine lamp with my jvc. and given 4500 hours claimed and we are seeing some pretty long life in lamps. certainly mine saw little to no drop off in 3-4 years of ownership with last generation owned.

 

if going through lamps like no tomorrow perhaps a projector not for you. you can get exact same immersion from a 32" flat panel on your desk top ! yes can sit 1-1.5x screen heights and well within THX spec for immersion.... I know some that run a 50" on their desk but thats is ultra extreme !

I’m glad you’re enjoying your JVC, Al!

I kept my X35 for the study for the smaller screen, but sold my x9500 after it dimmed around 600hrs.
 

I’m sure I’ll be back to JVC after they iron out issues with the new chassis (and hopefully increase brightness as the current brightness leaves little room for dimming on larger screens for HDR although Dynamic Tone Mapping should help somewhat). 

Enjoy!  

[betty boop]

3 hours ago, j19801110 said:

I’m glad you’re enjoying your JVC, Al!

I kept my X35 for the study for the smaller screen, but sold my x9500 after it dimmed around 600hrs.

Thank you, never been happier !  fond memories of x35, though think that’s getting to geriatric stage with jvc now things moved on significantly with last gen especially 7 series and I for one wouldn’t let a 9500 go on back of a bung lamp, but each to own. Not many folk letting previous gen jvc go why so few ever for sale

3 hours ago, j19801110 said:

 

I’m sure I’ll be back to JVC after they iron out issues with the new chassis (and hopefully increase brightness as the current brightness leaves little room for dimming on larger screens for HDR although Dynamic Tone Mapping should help somewhat). 

Enjoy!  

I certainly appreciate value epsons bring. I have suggested and helped two folk at least in getting into 9400. Certainly good with output and especially while dlps seem to gone down toilet with 4k ! I certainly too hesitated some 12 months  + not getting into current JVC but very glad I did. Like the epsons also can’t beat these jvc for the money am constantly besotted with the image it presents ! And yep dynamic tone mapping is all that’s claimed ... not seen put one step wrong I. Gazillion movies thrown at it, just been set forget

 

Am happy with lamps but with epsons I wish they’d go native 4k and importantly revive their laser range to provide a more affordable laser option vs jvc ! They need the competition ! This likely also provide larger screen option for those chasing the light !

[oztheatre]

4 hours ago, betty boop said:

Thank you, never been happier !  fond memories of x35, though think that’s getting to geriatric stage with jvc now things moved on significantly with last gen especially 7 series and I for one wouldn’t let a 9500 go on back of a bung lamp, but each to own. Not many folk letting previous gen jvc go why so few ever for sale

I certainly appreciate value epsons bring. I have suggested and helped two folk at least in getting into 9400. Certainly good with output and especially while dlps seem to gone down toilet with 4k ! I certainly too hesitated some 12 months  + not getting into current JVC but very glad I did. Like the epsons also can’t beat these jvc for the money am constantly besotted with the image it presents ! And yep dynamic tone mapping is all that’s claimed ... not seen put one step wrong I. Gazillion movies thrown at it, just been set forget

 

Am happy with lamps but with epsons I wish they’d go native 4k and importantly revive their laser range to provide a more affordable laser option vs jvc ! They need the competition ! This likely also provide larger screen option for those chasing the light !

They need to native 4K Al but I don't know if it's up to them. Last main oz rep I spoke with said Epson are about selling products not native 4k.. but the transition itself will take them there eventually as 2k will be betamax vhs some day. The LS10000 sold poorly so they didn't replace it. If it was native 4K panels and laser with good contrast and hdr handing under 12K that will be a healthy competitor to jvc and sony.